[Deck] Zoo

[Gibsonmac]

Bant survival was putting up solid results long before people started playing retainers. Don't get me wrong, the combo is sick, and I love it, I just don't think a whole lot of players are going to run out to buy such a niche card for such a huge price tag.

Plus, they found a card that fills the same purpose, that is much much cheaper... don't remember it, but they talked about it in the thread a few months back...

[uprite]

hey guys anyone tried loam lion yet? the new kird ape in world wake? But I am thinking it probably doesn't work since the deck is mainly red vs white

[beastman]

I don't like it, generally a taiga is the ideal land to have on the first turn.

[Dr.AgOn]

Ok, so if we compare Loam Lion and Steppe Lynx, the Lynx wins, right? He can do 4 dmg on turn two, where Nacatl can only hit for 3. And we really don't want to fetch a Savannah on turn 1 for the Lion, because most Zoo decks only run a singleton Savannah.
But what about Goblin Guide? Isn't He worh considering? Most Sligh lists run him and he's also capable of doing 4 dmg by turn two for only one red mana!

In my build the creature base looks something like this:
4*Wild Nacatl
4*Goblin Guide
4*Steppe Lynx
4*Tarmogoyf
4*Qasali Pridemage
2*Grim Lavamancer
2*Knight of the Reliquary

What do you guys think? Please comment. How many creatures do you run?

[Rizso]

With Goblin Guides in the deck i would use way more burn to end the game as fast as possible, alot more like a Sligh Deck instead of a Zoo deck.

[malden]

With Goblin Guides in the deck i would use way more burn to end the game as fast as possible, alot more like a Sligh Deck instead of a Zoo deck.

I agree. The issue you would run into is that on occasion Goblin Guide will give your opponent card advantage when they do hit a land. Even in a format like Legacy where most decks pack less lands, it is not good to give this advantage to your opponent since the format is so quick.

I like loam lion, but the mana base would have to be adjusted for it.

[Cesarius]

@ Dr.Ag0n, I'd drop the KotRs, and replace them with two more GLavamancers.

That, and include a burn suite that's equivalent to a raging inferno.

[Nizmox]

@ Dr.Ag0n, I'd drop the KotRs, and replace them with two more GLavamancers.

That, and include a burn suite that's equivalent to a raging inferno.

I don't know about that. Without the Lynx's i'd agree, but if you run Lynx you're likely going to run more fetches which makes KOTR better.
I do agree with needing 4 lavamancers though.

[DrHealex]

Why would you want to run 4 lavamancers? You rarely want to see them in multilpes, and as far as creature removal: they don't kill much.

I personally run 2 lavamancers nowadays, and even then I'm not certain how much longer they are going to retain that spot.

KotR with Lynxs ARE a must though.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

I've been thinking about new cards to try in this deck lately, and I've decided that I am going to test the new creature from WorldWake that tutors for Equipments. I love Jitte more than anyone, and it's a body to go with! I'm excited and I'm hoping that this new creatures proves to be fruitful.

[Grillo]

Excellent!
Even though I think the equipment tutor creature is a bit slow for this deck, I always enjoy people trying new techs and sharing the results on this forums.

And I love Jitte too!

Good luck with that.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Excellent!
Even though I think the equipment tutor creature is a bit slow for this deck, I always enjoy people trying new techs and sharing the results on this forums.

And I love Jitte too!

Good luck with that.

Well i tend to play Zoo slow anyway, so it works with my playstyle. I'm not saying i won't headshot someone when i have the chance, but i like to think of Zoo as a efficient midrange deck as well, and i play it like that as well.

I just wanna try something new with the deck, and Jitte reads: you win the game if i get active, so i figured I'd try it out. I haven't been impressed with 4 Lavamancers, or Sylvan Library either. I love Library, but i usually use it on the weeks when control is present in mass. Otherwise I'm not too fond of it.

[mchainmail]

With Goblin Guides in the deck i would use way more burn to end the game as fast as possible, alot more like a Sligh Deck instead of a Zoo deck.

Playing Goblin Guide in a format with Brainstorm, Ponder and Top just seems foolish... "yes, I would love to draw an extra card every turn you attack me"

[Rizso]

Playing Goblin Guide in a format with Brainstorm, Ponder and Top just seems foolish... "yes, I would love to draw an extra card every turn you attack me"

Yea, and thats why Goblin Guide is more of a Sligh creature then a zoo. More burn to do the job faster before they can get anything serious out of the Guides drawback.

[miko]

Playing Goblin Guide in a format with Brainstorm, Ponder and Top just seems foolish... "yes, I would love to draw an extra card every turn you attack me"

That's true but as Rizso mentions, its more a sligh creature and it still does not put the lands into play. Which means that we can still outrace them. Even if they draw one card more every second to third turn.

Goblin Guide just allows you to attack for six second turn if you play Lynx, too. And it makes Sligh even more straight...

[Tacosnape]

Lynx's problem is that he's terrible at defense, and that in Zoo mirrors he's terrible as he tends to get removed with Landfall triggers on the stack. And running Lynx makes me want to go all the way: Lynx, Plated Geodude, Vinelasher Kudzu, KOTR, Scapeshift, Flagstones of Trokair, etc.

Lavamancer's problem is that he can shrink your Tarmogoyf, and multiples is a pain. And KOTR's problem is that he's yard dependent, meaning running him, Goyf, and Lavamancer all together makes you graveyard dependent, and makes yard hate good against you.

So there's an argument here somewhere for Kird Ape and Woolly Thoctar and even Loam Lion and other guys who don't get worse when your opponent wrecks your yard.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Lynx's problem is that he's terrible at defense, and that in Zoo mirrors he's terrible as he tends to get removed with Landfall triggers on the stack. And running Lynx makes me want to go all the way: Lynx, Plated Geodude, Vinelasher Kudzu, KOTR, Scapeshift, Flagstones of Trokair, etc.

Lavamancer's problem is that he can shrink your Tarmogoyf, and multiples is a pain. And KOTR's problem is that he's yard dependent, meaning running him, Goyf, and Lavamancer all together makes you graveyard dependent, and makes yard hate good against you.

So there's an argument here somewhere for Kird Ape and Woolly Thoctar and even Loam Lion and other guys who don't get worse when your opponent wrecks your yard.

Ditto. I've argued all over this thread over Thoctar with Mr. LION and he has his advantages. So does KOTR. It's just preference.

I've been against Lavamancer since this thread started, but i eventually got to running him. I've been getting less and less results with him, so i keep cutting copies one by one.

Hell, I've even seen Zoo players board out Goyf for Relic of Progenitus and things of that sort.

[hungryLIKEALION]

Ditto. I've argued all over this thread over Thoctar with Mr. LION and he has his advantages. So does KOTR. It's just preference.

Yeah, I hope we never have to go into that again.

I've been against Lavamancer since this thread started, but i eventually got to running him. I've been getting less and less results with him, so i keep cutting copies one by one.

I still don't see why people want to play this deck without Lavamancer ;\ I know people keep saying they're unimpressed with his contributions, but I have difficulty figuring out how that can be. Granted he's not really the 1 drop I usually want to play on turn 1, but he's so ridiculously powerful that I've always found making him work to be worth it.

Hell, I've even seen Zoo players board out Goyf for Relic of Progenitus and things of that sort.

I've done that before.

I don't reccomend it.

[IrishLegend]

I still don't see why people want to play this deck without Lavamancer ;\ I know people keep saying they're unimpressed with his contributions, but I have difficulty figuring out how that can be. Granted he's not really the 1 drop I usually want to play on turn 1, but he's so ridiculously powerful that I've always found making him work to be worth it.

I do agree that lavamancer needs to be in this deck. Hes there for removal, burning opponents to the face, and nerfs oppenents goyfs when you dont have one out. lol love that combat trick.
I run 4 of him but i feel i pull him when hes not needed. What a good number to run? 3 maybe?

[hungryLIKEALION]

I always run 3, have for the last year and a half now.