[DTB] Vial Goblins

[(nameless one)]

Sorry if the question bugged you. It wasn't so much a budget question as much as asking which serves a more important function. I've seen a lot of discussion on which form of artifact hate to run, and I was wondering which was the most consistent, Scrapper, Tinkerer, or Vandal? Also, going to try and replace 1 of 3 Siege-Gangs with a Kiki-Jiki. Not trying to fall into the trap of cool things, but he and ringleader/siege-gang are amazing together.

I actually have started playtesting with him (along with Lightning Crafter)

Anyways, Lightning Crafter aside, Kiki-Jiki has been awesome. Sure he sucks with an empty board but why would you do that anyways. He lets you recur Matron's, Ringleader's and Siege-Gang's ETB effects.

He can also make a second copy of your finisher such as Piledriver.

Also one time, I pulled of a cute combo:

I had Instigator in play, attacked with him (with the help of Vialed Stingscouger), then drop Matron and Kiki-jiki. Searched for Crafter, Vial it in championing Matron. Then copy Crafter championing itself, Matron comes into play, full off Siege-Gang.

Then I just kept doing that for the rest of the game, which ended the following turn (I had Goblin Warchief in my hand that turn)

[Zythe]

Kiki-Jiki just seems really win-more to me. At five mana cost, you don't really want a goblin that's useless without another goblin in play. He's really really explosive, but oftentimes he either doesn't do anything because you have no goblins in play or you have enough goblins in play to be winning anyway, which is a big contrast to SGC who is always good whenever he comes down, esepcially on an empty board.

[bakofried]

He stole me a game against Reanimator with a Sphinx of the Steel Wind on the table. Doubling up Piledrivers was teh nutz. Plus, he allows for all sorts of combat tricks with Scourgers, Siege-Gangs, and the like. And I do know he sucks on an empty board, but that's why he's there as a one-of.

[JonBarber]

Kiki-jiki can do fun things, but he really is just a win more. Besides, hes really open to getting swords/pathed. I dont think its worth the slot.

[bakofried]

Eh, I'll just test until he proves to be troublesome. That's what free tournaments are for, right?

[Joe_C]

I tried Kikijiki for sometime and I found his casting cost to be just really unreasonable for the few times he actually gets to perform his tricks. Since I run port, hitting RRR can be a bit troublesome.....

[bakofried]

Anyone have any good ideas on fighting Painter's Grindstone?

[Nelis]

Anyone have any good ideas on fighting Painter's Grindstone?

How about Pithing Needle? Just combine it with being very agressive.

[bakofried]

Yeah, I've got that in the board. Unfortunately, he uses a lot of Fog effects (think TurboFog minus the Turbo plus Grindstone) It's a homebrew, and I've never played Gobs against it, but losing to anyone using Grindstone feels unclean. Not that it's a bad combo, it just feels wrong. What should I board out, in that case? Plus, here's my list. I have to get a few cards (you'll see which) but it's almost done.
Lands
Wasteland x3
Rishadan Port x2
Mountain x17
Creatures:
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker x1
Siege-Gang Commander x2
Goblin Ringleader x4
Tuktuk Scrappers x1
Goblin Matron x4
Goblin Chieftain x2
Goblin Warchief x4
Warren Instigator x3
Goblin Piledriver x4
Stingscourger x3
Gempalm Incinerator x2
Goblin Lackey x4
Spells:
Aether Vial x4
Sideboard(completely up in the air):
Anarchy x3
Pithing Needle x4
8 open slots
Also, if one is expecting Engineered Plague, would Boartusk Liege be a suitable answer as a Matron target? Or would multiples be more effective?

[DrHealex]

A 1 of- gaea's blessing (or 2) can give painters combo "some" fits. And to deal with fog effects, there are several cheap red enchantments that make it so damage can't be prevented.

[bakofried]

Do you think Blessing requires a green splash? Just in case you actually draw into both, you just cast both shuffling the other back? Or are the chances of that low enough I shouldn't worry about it?

[DrHealex]

I don't think it requires a green splash, 2 will almost always mean one in your deck. They can still get around the blessing with a well timed crypt/relic though if they are smart enough. I generally just ran 1 blessing, and pithiing needles myself and grindstone disappeared, but some say I am pretty lucky :-P

[bakofried]

Luckily, I don't think he's that intuitive(not that he's unintelligent). But with Pithing Needle, plus early beats, plus a trick up my sleeve, I should be fine. Plus, Ringleader filters it away. Perfect, huh? But he sides in Baneslayers, so bleh. I should have Lackeyed a Siege-Gang by then, so Gempalm should fix that for me.
Scratch what I said about the toolbox slots. I forgot to put in the vials. *facepalm*
*EDIT
Btw, what should I run for artifact hate in the board? I'm torn between Goblin Tinkerer and Tuktuk Scrapper. One I need to untap (or have a warchief) but the other has a one-trick effect...
Thoughts? (and how many would a good number be in either case)

[Mister Agent]

Yeah, I've got that in the board. Unfortunately, he uses a lot of Fog effects (think TurboFog minus the Turbo plus Grindstone) It's a homebrew, and I've never played Gobs against it, but losing to anyone using Grindstone feels unclean. Not that it's a bad combo, it just feels wrong. What should I board out, in that case? Plus, here's my list. I have to get a few cards (you'll see which) but it's almost done.
Lands
Wasteland x3
Rishadan Port x2
Mountain x17
Creatures:
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker x1
Siege-Gang Commander x2
Goblin Ringleader x4
Tuktuk Scrappers x1
Goblin Matron x4
Goblin Chieftain x2
Goblin Warchief x4
Warren Instigator x3
Goblin Piledriver x4
Stingscourger x3
Gempalm Incinerator x2
Goblin Lackey x4
Spells:
Aether Vial x4
Sideboard(completely up in the air):
Anarchy x3
Pithing Needle x4
8 open slots
Also, if one is expecting Engineered Plague, would Boartusk Liege be a suitable answer as a Matron target? Or would multiples be more effective?

I think you should be running 4 wastelands at least. Wasteland is just too good to not be running four. I'd also run more then two siege gangs, unlike Kiki Jiki they actually steal you games when your behind.

For your sideboard, I'd suggest pyrokinesis and graveyard hate.

[bakofried]

I know about Wastes and Port, that's just the number I have right now. I should get the 3rd Port and 4th Waste this weekend though.
Also, I know in Affinity Crypt is superior, but here, what do people prefer, crypt or Relic?
Also, already dissatisfied with that list, going to make following changes:
-1 Kiki
-1 Tuktuk Main
+1 Gempalm
+1 Siege-Gang
To fill out the sideboard, this is what I have so far:
4 Pithing Needle
3 Anarchy
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Tuktuk Scrapper/Goblin Tinkerer
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Open slots
Further advice for a tournament this Friday? Haven't brought Goblins in a while, and I want to make a good showing of it.

[Mister Agent]

I personally like running 3 ravenous traps and 3 relics. Unless, your splashing for black for creature removal then you could just run 3 crypts and 3 traps.

[kicks_422]

Is running 14 Mountain, 4 Port, and 4 Wasteland a bad call if you're also running 4 Instigators? I'd love to be able to use Port and Waste simultaneously as 4-offs, but I want to keep the 4 Instigators.

[FoulQ]

Is running 14 Mountain, 4 Port, and 4 Wasteland a bad call if you're also running 4 Instigators? I'd love to be able to use Port and Waste simultaneously as 4-offs, but I want to keep the 4 Instigators.

Yes. Going to 14 mountains pre-m10 (before both chieftain and instigator) was somewhat questionable. It is definitely not advised now.

With 4 instigators, 4 warchiefs, and 1-4 chieftains, I think 17 red sources is the bare minimum.

[kicks_422]

I thought so. Here's my list, for reference.

18 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Stingscourger
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Siege-Gang Commander


Nothing too fancy. I have the 4 Goblin Chieftain in the SB for MU's where I think I'd need it, though they only very rarely get sided in. I'm not too sold on them MD as I never want to tutor for them, and the 3cc slot gets too clogged up.

[JonBarber]

I thought so. Here's my list, for reference.

18 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Stingscourger
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Siege-Gang Commander


Nothing too fancy. I have the 4 Goblin Chieftain in the SB for MU's where I think I'd need it, though they only very rarely get sided in. I'm not too sold on them MD as I never want to tutor for them, and the 3cc slot gets too clogged up.

4 Stingscourger and 4 Incinerator? Seems a bit over kill (no pun intended). I would recommend cutting 2 of them for 2 main deck cheiftans.