Resolving the High Tide isn't that helpful (especially since he knows I have another Force which could just be hardcast even if I don't have a second blue (which he should know I have if he'd been deducing properly).Originally Posted by MULocke
But you're right, he could have cast the High Tide during upkeep, then passed and tried to go off during draw. If that affects anything, though, it's actually worse for him, because if I draw a second Force of Will I have more info. He certainly can't cast other spells because then he wastes floating mana which is more relevant than my topdeck (usually).
I'm not sure if you know this or not. It seems like you don't. Canonist is never "On the stack." Vial activation is on the stack, then Canonist is in play. Canonist goes into play as part of the resolution of the Vial. There's no time between when I reveal that I have Canonist and when Canonist is in play, preventing him from putting additional spells onto the stack.
You could guess that I have Canonist, but it seems like a great way to lose the game to assume that your opponent tapping a Vial @ 2 is a Canonist, thus causing you to blow three mana for nothing kneejerking out the Meditate, and then potentially trying to go off with other spells wasting more mana. If I don't have anything else to do, I'm going to bluff tap the Vial and see if you kneejerk critical stuff.
If Jeff tries to go off IR to the Vial, then he'll lose the game whether or not I have Canonist. The way he played it, at least he could win even if I didn't rip the Canonist.
I played this at a weekly sunday tournament today. I have been playin different fish varients forever and ive been playing this for several months. i was playing vesuvan shapeshifter in the kotwo slot and i have +1 windswept heath -flooded strand because i couldnt fidn the 4th. and in the board i had propaganda over ghostly prison.
24 person tourny
round one against White weenie <he had alot of equipment as well as armageddon swords and path>
game one I lose to 2 resolve Swords of light and shadow
Game 2 i side in 3 ET 2 AOS 1propaganda and take out 4 wayfarer vesuvan shapeshifter and 1 vial
I stick a turn 1 mom and serra carrys the jitte in for an easy win
Game 3 alot like game 2 but he armageddons and i morph fathom seer to save my lands
2-1 (1-0)
round 2 against merfolk splashing for goyf
Game 1
I lose a counter war over LoA and cant find swords lose to unblockable beats
game 2
I side -3 wayfarer in 2 ET and 1 propaganda
I have to mulligan to 5 no lands
he draws 3 wastelands i draw 3 tundras im stuck with 3 moms in play which he eventualy echoing truths and swings for leathal
This roudn realy pissed me off because its definently favorable but i saw a lack of anythng relavent and paid dearly for it
0-2 (1-1)
round 3 mono white death and taxes
i stop him from geting karakus+ mangar loop but die to not haivng jitte or swords at some crucial moments Also i cant find another blue card to pitch to force to save my life
game 2 I side in 3 Et 3 AoS and -4 wayfarer -1 shapeshifter- 1 vial
i go first dropping vial and daze his vial. then MoM and SFM bring me the game in short order
game 3 HE gets off to an early lead but I AOS his O-ring giving me my jitte back so angel kills his board and give me the game
2-1 (2-1)
round 4 vs Sneaky Hulk <sneak attack + protean hulk>
game 1 he wins the roll fallowed but a turn 1 Blood moon and i dont have a force. I sowrds his first hulk he finds another and goes of anyways.
Game 2: I side -2 SFM -1 jitte and -4 moms and bring in 3 ET 3 AOS 1 canonist
I lead off with tundra and spell pierce the blood moon i search up 2 AOS and canonist and serra swing in for the win
game 3
he blood moons but I drew all of my basics in starting hand. and i hunt down 2 AoS and jotun grunt with the last jitte finish the game in short order.
2-1 (3-1)
I draw into the top 4 along with probant, GW survival and team america
the merfolk player i played won the tourny never losign a game.
shapeshifter was completly unimpressive all day at one point pretednign to be a serra avenger. I think I will make it Grunt #3.
I LOVE the power in the side board as i easily won game 2 -3 for every match but merfolk on the god draw. I realy hate the stress it puts on our somewhat lackin counter suite to have no control over artifacts or enchantments maindeck. and that cost me 3 games through the tournament.
I know its Janky but maybe
Capashen Unicorn
I know it cost 4 and a turn to get rid of something but its not entirely dead when it isnt necesary and can carry a jitte.
also there is Devout witness
who cost a bit more but is multiple use
the problem with either i think would be to find space for them I was thinkking possibly 1 could go to the Kotwo slot instead of a third grunt but im completly lost on the 2nd as i think 2 would be enough to make some difference.
Sounds like it probably wouldn't help too much, but any reason why you couldn't have made the targeted mom pro-blue in response to counter the ET?
ゆっくりしていってね！！！
He probably had to use the Moms to block. Given he didn't have a way to play anything, it probably wasn't too hard for Merfolk to set up a position favorable to him.
I don't like siding out Wayfarers to get Enlightened Tutor when you don't have a very good target for the tutor. Wayfarer is an important part of the mana base. I would have been boarding out Vesuvan Shapeshifter every game over taking out Wayfarers (in the matchups you showed).
Also, why did you board in Canonist against Sneak Attack? Was he using some combo that required casting spells? That's pretty dumb of him, all the efficient routes I remember combo out without casting anything.
Well the sneak attack deck was running Seething song as well as rite of flame so cannonist makes them null and void.
I was prossibly undervaluing watfarer as all my matchups save for the last had alot of basics.
and yes one of my moms was pro green to block goyf making ET bounce all 3 moms the other 2 pro blue to my hand
in hindsight I dont think i would board in canonist again as it felt like it wasnt necesary as long as i played cautiosly
Quick question: if I couldn't get Flooded Strands, would it be okay to replace them with other white fetches? (Definitely trying to get Strands, just wondering if there is an alternative.)
ゆっくりしていってね！！！
I think in a pinch maybe But i was much happier to see strand in my hand rather than heath if I had no strands i would do a 5:2 split between white and blue fetches
Yeah, I'd replace them all with white fetches and take out the island for something else. The basic island is pretty nice, but you'd have almost no way to tutor it out (just Wayfarer --> basic island, which is only relevant against BM). Maybe go with Karakous.
The problem is there aren't any other decent lands. Shocklands are terribad, because you'll often play them multiple times.
That's tough, Flooded Strand is pretty important.
I was also wondering when is the best time to start the wafarer wasteland loop I know its strongest if I start with it very very early but then all my resorces are spent getting waste land while theywill have 1-2 mana to play spells every turn. Against some decks this is more then enough to beat us with.
I hate to make suggestions which are untested, but testing is kinda hard for me (no one around me plays legacy, and I can't get MWS due to hardware issues), but I have been thinking about possible replacements for KOTWO/3rd maindeck Grunt and while I came across some ok ideas (probably not...), one kinda stuck out a bit more than others. Have you guys considered Looter Il-Kor (I have read most of the thread, but there are definitely some things I missed/forgot)?
Pros:
-Blue for FOW. Seems like increasing the blue count would definitely benefit the deck.
-Wears a Jitte really well (maybe even better than KOTWO as he often cannot get around goyf).
-2cmc. Fills the spots adequately. Also only has a single U in its cost making it easier to cast than Clique or Mimeomancer.
-Can generate some card quality/can get rid of those extra lands during land flooding.
-Fuels Grunt.
Cons:
-Not defensive at all. Can't block (unless someone decides to play some shadow creatures...).
-Doesn't necessarily improve any matchups (like KOTWO does with goblins).
-Doesn't open that slot in the sideboard that Forbidden mentioned earlier.
Again, this is totally untested, and I apologize if this has already been mentioned. Just trying to get the creative juices flowing. Thanks for the awesome deck!
I actualy realy like looter il-kor. he can feed grunts, and with wayfarer can make real card advantage by pitching useless lands
Also costs two for a creature that doesn't generate card advantage, has only 1 toughness, and can't block under any circumstances.
There are a lot of creatures that have big upsides if you're willing to ignore all the things that they can't do.
Well it was just an idea: something I will definitely test if I ever get the chance to do so. I must say though, I do like the idea of looter also because I sometimes find it hard to keep Grunt around, and I often find myself holding back with KOTWO because I want the card advantage. Looter gets around both aspects. I, however,will trust your judgement Forbidden.
Does the deck really need to feed Jotun Grunts I think its only purpose here in the deck is to eat the P/T of tarmos. Somebody said that this deck doesn't need muscle creatures for it to win... The deck can win via 1/1 and 1/3 beaters as i've told....
I had completely forgotten that I hadn't posted a detailed report of the tournament. At any rate, here we go.
mcnubbins2t*: 5-1. Ug Faeries (1), Life.dec (?), Dreadstill (?), Bant Survival (?), Ichorid (?), Rb Goblins (0-2 loss)
UG Faeries (W1 - L1 - T1)
I can't remember a lot besides really hating Spellstutter Sprite. Won game 1, lost game 2 because he got a Jitte and I didn't, and went to time game 3, with me having an upper hand. I really think I'd have had game 3 with a few more rounds of play.
Life.dec (W1 - L0 - T1)
Won game 1 easily. Game 2 I couldn't seem to stop the recurring Martyr of Sands and went to time due to his rediculous amounts of life gained. Didn't see a Weathered Wayfarer and only hit 1 Wasteland, so Emeria and forecast Proclamation worked their magic. Also made a seriously dumb play mistake in this game that I don't even want to say.
Dreadstill (W2 - L1)
Won game 1. Game 2 I remember making some stupid mistakes like at one point Forcing the Dreadnought itself instead of the Stifle. I lost game 2. Game 3 was pretty close, but I pulled it off despite his SDT being there, albeit sans the Counterbalance.
Bant Survival (W2 - L0)
This deck was somewhat unimpressive. He may have had bad draws, but at no point did I feel like I wasn't in control of the game.
Ichorid (W2 - L1)
This matchup went exactly as expected. Got wrecked game 1. Sided in hate and went to town games 2 and 3.
Rb Goblins (W0 - L2)
I remember having confidence in this matchup because I felt as an ex goblins player I knew what to do to beat him. That quickly turned to me feeling hopeless and fighting an uphill battle every step of the way. Maybe I should have mulliganed, and maybe he had amazing topdecks. Either way, he stomped me kinda bad both games. G2 lasted longer due to a Propaganda.
There it is. I'm planning on taking this deck to another Legacy tourney this Saturday. First prize is Tabernacle, second is Moat, and others to be determined by attendance. I'm pumped, and hoping Saturday night to have a good report and be in possession of a Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.
So since apparently the meta at the tourny coming up is expecting to be tons of zoo, I am planning on running the third grunt and the 4 perimeter captains sideboard.
I was wondering, when sbing in the 4 perimeter captains against zoo, what is your recommendation for the 4 cards to take out?
thanks in advance
+4 Perimeter captain
-4 Weathered wayfarer
:)
I'd probably side out forces, to be honest. You can't afford the disadvantage.
I have been testing Winter Orb lately. This deck totally breaks the symmetry of it. I had been testing -2 Moms, but I think the right call is -1 KofWO, -1 Jitte, -1 Mom, +2 Winter Orb, +1 Daze.
Before, our zoo matchup hung out at about 45-55%. It's slightly lower now that we're known and significantly many people are playing the faster versions of zoo with steppe lynx. (But they used to be retarded and play stuff like goblin guide, which made it easier.)
Simultaneously goblins has become both a lot better and a lot rarer, and ichorid has always been great, and has become a lot rarer. We've both been busy with school work, so we haven't been keeping up as much, so it's time to make a rather noticeable adjustment. (Say 3-4 cards in the sideboard, and maybe even 1 maindeck.) It's not entirely clear how we're going to proceed, but perimeter captain looks okay. We've also tried threads of disloyalty, where it turned out that clever playing of QPM was good enough for zoo to overcome it. QPM also pumps creatures to become big enough to kill PC. We can simultaneously solve these problems, the slight weakening of the ichorid matchup, and increase our reanimator matchup, and rape an even bigger hole in thresh, aggro loam, etc., by running more copies of relic. So thoughts I've had include things like -4 BFT, +4 PC, and maybe -1 aura +1 relic. I've also considered just not running PC in the first place, cutting the 4 BFT for some combination of relics and ethersworn canonists, which have a suprisingly large area of application.
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