I believe the Urg version is better than the Uwb version. My reasoning is u get to play a real sideboard and firespout is so good to right now. It improves the matchups that are bad for the deck and doesn't hinder the matchups that are good all that much. I also think that skybreaker is better than the creatures.
Now I have some questions. How good is piller? Is it better than chalice? And the last question is how good is back to basics in the meta right now. Where I play there are a bunch of merfolk and some goblins, which it isnt good against. But there is some threshold and 42 land decks which it is. But even the threshing decks play like 5 basics because of waste and b2b and bloodmoon.
Thanks for the answer,
B2B is a critical card: Sometimes it changes the game in your favour and sometimes it isn't good enough, but it is stronger in the first game (obvously, because you opponents can't be sure if you are playing B2B or not and don' consider that in their opening hand). So I went 3 copies, 2 could be allright, but I want to fetch them with Intuition.
I went to play Pillar for the following reasons:
- it isn't just another counterspell that the combo-mage has to discard or to "chant"
- it comes turn 2
- they have to bounce / destroy it AND this does at least 2 damage which means 2 cards less from Ad Nauseam
most often it does much more damage to them because they have to cast Mystical Tutor or Burning Wish in order to get the bounce spell
The plan is just to wait with a bunch of counters or some EE for 0 in play. If your hand is good enough just drop 1 Call the Skybreaker and than they have to do something. The combo matches are very tricky, but pillar seams to better than chalice, because MUC has a to slow clock. Pillar does some damage at least (sometimes it helps so much that Nauseam fizzles)
Given how weak MUC is in the current meta, I thought this idea seems uber interesting...
Add Back to Basics for disruption and the deck is basically a goldmine of combos and countermagic to protect them.Originally Posted by Iranon
So that would be something like this..?
3 Dreadnought
2 Painter's servant
4 stifle
3 grindstone
3 counterbalance
4 top
3 back to basics
4 brainstorm
1 ponder
4 fow
2 counterspell
3 spell snare
7 fetch
4 wasteland
13 island
I doubt if this is even worth testing :P
Lol yeah, that's a fairly good example. I actually think it looks good and has potential.
I think the deck plays one too many combos.
I would cut painters servant/grindstone and add counters (spell pierce, dispel, daze) and 2 trickbind and 4 dreadnought
Basically a monoblue dreadstill deck that plays back to basics since it can. That seems more viable than MUC IMHO.
There is a mono blue stifle naught deck. The main problem with the deck is that it is very weak to krosan grip. I like the idea of a slow control blue because thresh is really weak to these type of decks and if we can tune it to beat the aggressive decks i think this deck can come back. I also have been looking at the resent legacy results and see that the storm decks are good but have a problem with counterbalance/blue decks and since there are so many in my meta i think this deck is a very strong meta choice but i guess time will tell. I will be playing on thursday and I will post a list and report on friday.
@ Moonlight: The version I tested was *slightly* more aggressive:
Mana:
9 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
1 Academy Ruins
4 Chrome Mox
Stuff that finds Stuff:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Stuff that counters Stuff:
4 Stifle
4 Counterbalance
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
Stuff that wins in a terrible janky way:
3 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
3 Painter's Servant
3 Grindstone
Turn 3-4 goldfish + some protection was quite common, and the chance of getting either a
The version I had fun with was a little more aggressive and probably doesn't belong here...
Mana:
9 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
4 Chrome Mox
Stuff that finds stuff:
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Stuff that counters stuff:
4 Stifle
4 Counterbalance
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
Stuff that wins in a terrible janky way:
3 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
3 Painter's Servant
3 Grindstone
For a stronger emphasis on punishing fragile mana bases I considered -1 Top, Ponder, Counterbalance for 1 Dreadnaught and 2 Trickbinds. B2B didn't seem to fit.
Interaction of Grindstone and Counterbalance is actually pretty damn sweet, especially with an Academy Ruins out and opponents never really know what they should be worried about because the pilot doesn't know either.
Siding out whatever killed them in the last game for more respectable control tools is also good fun.
Did you all see the MUC deck that was featured in the GP Madrid coverage? I thought it was pretty interesting:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...d10/welcome#11
Here's the deck if you don't want to click through:
1 Academy Ruins
20 Island
1 Riptide Laboratory
22 lands
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Spire Golem
4 creatures
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Counterspell
2 Cryptic Command
3 Energy Field
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Negate
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Vedalken Shackles
35 other spells
Sideboard
4 Back to Basics
2 Masticore
1 Razormane Masticore
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Wipe Away
I like the Energy Field as a temporary survival solution, actually. Oblivion Stone seems a bit costly for a deck with no acceleration though.
Yeah I think I will try Energy Field out. However, I think that, after testing them out in my deck, that even with only Islands the synergy between Brainstorm, Sphinx of Jwar Isle, and fetchlands, is so good that they really need to be included.
is jace relly that good in this deck .and does it really need to be in here
Since I opened a Japanese Worldwake pack with Jace, I'm going to try him out. If we have control of the game, the +2 ability could be a solid way to ensure the opponent stays behind by filtering away the good cards. Playing from behind or trying to stabililize, Jace doesn't seem as good as Sphinx or Call the Skybreaker. Then again, with Energy Field, Jace can be a good way to gain card advantage while keeping Energy Field in play. I'm not sold on Energy Field, though. Seems to cutesy
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
I think Jace isn't needed and isn't good enough in MUC for the following reasons:
First of all you are tapping 4 mana and the only thing he does to the board is bouncing a creature for -1. After that he has just 2 points left and that means he is near to death. The "0" ability is only strong with shuffle-effects (see Brainstorm) and if you can supply the constant 3 points on him (he will die to almost any creature attacking or e.g. a Lightning Bolt). The "+2" ability is ok, but their is no guarantee that the card your opponent draws isn't a card you don't want. You are just changing the probability a bit, because one card goes on the buttom, but that's to weak for 4 mana sorcery speed.
Moreover in most cases he won't stay long in play, because MUC doesn't block that often. Also with Energy Field they might just attack your Jace and than he is gone an takes your Energy Field with him. So a bad choice in my eyes.
In decks that have some creatures to protect him and maybe playing many shuffle-effects he might be a good choice. For a comparison take Elspeth. She comes into play and directly gets 5 points, which is enough for some attacks. And also she brings a 1/1 token with her every round. In other words Elspeth protects herself and is also a decent win condition. Jace alone isn't strong enough, he is more the kind of card which needs some other cards to be a strong choice.
No Jace for me in MUC.
Has anyone tried shroud turtle from Worldwake yet? I've found Calcite Snapper to be quite useful keeping annoying 3/3 s at bay (Wild Nacatl, Nimble Mongoose). It can even trade with Woolly Thoctar and occasionally Tarmogoyf
Plus, shroud turtle gives us a clock against combo and other control decks like landstill, something we didn't really have.
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
I play Back to Basics MD. I don't like when my opponent plays a fetchland and puts a basic land on battlefield. Stifle ? Trickbind ? Squelch ? Interdict ? Do you know Whim of Volrath ? XD
Shadow of Doubt is better than Squelch and Interdict at "Stifling" fetchlands (mostly because it also stops Natural Order and Conflux) and yet Shadow of Doubt is terrible. If you want to run a Stifle effect, run Stifle. It's not worth it, though. Most decks don't run more than 5 basic lands and can't consistently hit all their colors without non-basics. Back to Basics is good because it forces the opponent to fetch basics, slowing down the deck to our speed. If the player doesn't, then we win through B2B.
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
Nice find. I will test it. Something like 2 Sphinx and 3 Turtles.
So, I've always been on the look-out for a second Legacy deck that I can build cheaply IRL. I play mono-blue Merfolk usually, and for this reason I'm attracted to building a combo or control deck, since I already own an aggro-control one, and I like to mix it up.
I have nearly all the "money cards" for this deck (FoW, b2b, -- the stuff I would have to buy is mostly in the $5-10 range or so (like Vedalken Shackles, Powder Keg, Fact or Fiction). I would probably run a Ugr version, with maindeck B2B, because I already own 3x Scalding Tarn and 3x Misty Rainforest, and I think Firespout is pretty strong these days.
So, here's my question though (and please don't take this as troll-bait)... Is this deck actually strong enough these days for it to make sense for me to start buying/ trading for the rest of the staples that I'm missing? I understand that it's a very skill-dependent deck, and you need very good knowledge of the metagame to do well with it. But what I'm asking is this: Does this deck still have a future, or is it on its way out of the meta somewhat?
I ask this as someone who likes the deck a lot, and wants to believe it can still do well, so don't get me wrong...
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
The deck is very skill-intensive, but it's very difficult to play in today's meta. It has a decent match-up against Counterbalance decks and other control decks; the problem is decks like Merfolk and Zoo are running around with combo decks. If we tune the deck to specifically hate on Merfolk and Zoo, we are going to weaken the combo match-up and vice-versa. The deck isn't overly fun for a lot of people to play, which is partially the reason the deck doesn't see any major evolution. I'm working on a small red splash version because Firespout is indeed that good, but I'm finding it difficult to find a balance to give me winnable matches against combo and aggro decks. I think shroud turtle is versatile enough to help out matches in both archetypes; saying all that, I'm not sure if I'm playing this deck at GP: Columbus. I don't know if I trust it to be good enough like I did last year at GP: Chicago and went 5-4... I should have done better but I punted three matches.
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
I would agree with Jason.
Given the current state of the meta, it's tough to pilot this deck. I really enjoy MUC, and try to play it when I can, but I can't say with any conviction that it's Tier 1. I don't think B2B does enough against aggro/Vial decks or combo.
I started running this deck because of budget constraints. Now that I am able to acquire/borrow a mana base to support other colors I start to see a clear evolution of this deck into other decks. To me, MUC has evolved into Landstill and other control variants. I'm also extremely attached to Brainstorm, and feel that it is a worthy inclusion in the deck's 75. What I'm trying to say is - when a splash is attempted with this archetype you really start to question why you'd run this over Supreme Blue, Countertop, Landstill, and so on.
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