I went 5-1-1 at a local tournament in Iserlohn, Germany (66 or 67 people) yesterday, placing 7th. A friend of mine also opted to play the deck (slightly different maindeck/sideboard) and went 5-0-2 (2nd).
//Lands
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
//Creatures
4 Serra Avenger
4 Mother of Runes
4 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Fathom Seer
//Spells
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
//Sideboard:
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Aura of Silence
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
Link: http://deckstats.net/deck-80650-0cb5...7d788f-en.html
Matchups:
Round 1: Rgw Goyfsligh 2-0 (Both games I won with less than 5 life. But in G1 I still had a Jitte with 6 counters left.)
Round 2: ANT 1-2 (G2 I open a hand with 2x Flooded Strand, Wasteland, Mother, Canonist, Spell Pierce and Brainstorm. Nice game.)
Round 3: Canadian Thresh 2-0 (G1 I had a Grunt that dealed 16 damage and removed his whole graveyard)
Round 4: Dragon Stompy 2-1 (Lost G2 against a Chalice @ 1 on the play and my deck refusing to draw the second land till turn 7 :/)
Round 5: CounterTop Thopter Foundry 2-0 (G2 I had not 1 but 2 Aura of Silence in play. He had a Thopter Foundry in play and 3 basic lands. And a Top in his hand which he was unable to play.)
Round 6: NLS 2-1 (Close games against Windux. G2 I protected my Canonist ftw, G3 I had 2 Spell Pierce und 1 Force)
Round 7: LoamRock ID
I decided to play the third Spell Pierce main instead of the third Jotun Grunt. I expected quite a lot ANT/NLS plus some Reanimator and wanted another blue card for the maindeck. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the maindeck, and most of the sideboard. But I really want another Ethersworn Canonist and/or Enlightened Tutor. I guess the Ghostly Prison gets cut to make room for that.
That 3rd game was so awesome to watch.Originally Posted by Forbiddian
After seeing this deck played in person, I can see what all the hype around it is about. It's REALLY powerful.
Thanks to everyone posting their tournament reports!
Here's the summary data.
Total record so far: 116-40-16.
That's 70.5% win rate, 74.4% just counting wins vs. wins+losses. This is even higher than Jeff and I predicted, but is very much in line with the general statement, "UW Tempo beats the field."
I actually tested the matchup with Brot_ohne_Kruste like 2 weeks ago.
Out:
- 4 Swords (yeah, if a 1/1 token is your best target.....)
- 1 Stoneforge Mystic
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte
I found the Stoneforge Mystic/Jitte to be clunky in this matchup most of the time. You want to keep in all blue cards, Wayfarer (fetch Basics, sometimes Wasteland), Mother (Vindicate, Swords) and the Vial. Actually, if you can protect your vial, this matchup becomes a lot easier.
In:
+ 2 E. Tutor (finds gravehate + the crucial Vial)
+ 1 Relic
+ 1 Crypt
+ 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
+ 1 Jotun Grunt (unless you play the third main)
@Forbiddian - Unfortunately the other guy (his name is Clarence) who played UW tempo will most likely not write a report. He was part of my team but he isnt really an internet guy. From what I remember these were his matchups in the swiss
Round 1 vs ThreshThreshThresh win (2-0) 1-0
Round 2 vs Zoo win (2-0) 2-0
Round 3 vs Pro Bant CBtop draw (1-1-1) 2-0-1
Round 4 vs Supreme Blue win (2-1) 3-0-1
Round 5 vs Merfolk win (2-0) 4-0-1
Round 6 vs Mono Black ID 5-0-1
Top 8
Quarters - Belcher win (2-0)
Semis - Pro Bant CBtop loss (0-2)
And to think he was gonna play his homebrew psychatog deck the day before but me and my other teammates convince him to take UW Tempo =)
That's cool, I just needed the matchups for data.
I was sitting next to him during the Merfolk matchup, I'm almost positive he dropped a game.
That's cool, I just needed the matchups for data.
I was sitting next to him during the Merfolk matchup, I'm almost positive he dropped a game.
Little Red -- I have followed the trisonmy 21 thread posted by Kruste some weeks back and am curious if you have tested UW Tempo against it and how it fares? Thanks!
I played Trisomy 21 quite some times piloting UW Tempo already, and from what I recall, I recorded one win, one loss, and two draws (due to overtime and extra-turns having passed at 1-1). It's probably been like 5-2-5 or so in terms of single games. I guess one can improve on that, since the Trisomy 21 player I faced most often is one of the most skilled players we have here, and he's been piloting the deck for like a year or so (fwiw, he created a very similar list to what is now called Trisomy 21, and evolved it to the agreed-upon list of Trisomy 21 over time) - so a more experienced UW Tempo player might fare better than I did. My gut feeling tells me it's a pretty even matchup though - not overly negative, though not overly positive, either.
I just don't get how you got those 6 counters. You tell your story as if it was "how UW tempo ruined Akroma" from almost nothing. But apparently you already had counters on Jitte and Dragon Stompy was way behind you before that.So I have Fathom Seer with Jitte against two morphs and two cards in hand. I assume that they're probably both Gathan Raiders and pass the turn. My opponent has Seething Song and flips over Akroma. Ouch. I take 6. In case you’re not Phil-knows-everything-about-Magic, here’s what it is (no, it doesn't look good for team UW Tempo):
I use Swords to Plowshares to blast his other Morph and be able to swing clean to get some counters and keep my Seer. He pitches a card to gain 3 extra life (by morphing/hellbenting his Gathan Raiders). Maybe sloppy, he was already at 16 or 17, it’d be easier to kill Akroma than to kill him as is. I think it’s just a land or something, and he's already got his Akroma.
He swings me for 9, I go to 4 or something really low. I cast the Burrenton Forge-Tender in my hand, swing to get two more counters on the Jitte (4 counters), and transfer the Jitte to the BFT.
If he doesn’t swing me, then I just swing him with BFT (unblockable) and he loses. He swings with Akroma and BFT keeps me alive with a noble sacrifice. A swing with Fathom Seer gets me 6 counters and I blow his Akroma up and then play out some other dudes. Jitte walks the rest of the way through Arcslogger and one or two other guys that are just speedbumps.
Another thing, Karakas and/or Vesuvean Shapeshifter would have dealt with this threat. I'm not saying that Karakas is better than a basic plains in the Dragon Stompy MU, I'm just saying that, since you can tutor lands, it's really strange that you don't play a Karakas instead of this second basic plains.
I agree with Colo. The matchup is about even preboard and even to slightly favourable postboard. Both of my teammates (Brot_Ohne_Kruste and another guy) play an anti-Combo / anti-Dredge sideboard. There is like no really useful card that improves their matchup postboard aside from The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.
But some players may board Krosan Grip and/or Pithing Needle to combat Vial and gravehate, or even Engineered Plaque (on human).
It's a pretty tough game once they get their Loam-engine running and you need to watch out for Engineered Explosives. Your MVPs are Wayfarer, Mother, Vial and Grunt.
Edit @ Maveric78f: Dragon Stompy is already a good matchup once you win the dice roll. And even to slightly unfavourable if you don't (Chalice 1 first turn and stuff). And Blood Moon/Magus > Karakas. I rather have the second Basic Plains than a niche card that fails against one of the core strategies of Dragon Stompy.
"He makes a Blood Moon and another Morph, leaving me with Plains and two Mountains. I get a Jitte out but Grunt dies before I can equip it, so I vial in Fathom Seer at end of turn and equip that." (See Forbiddians report above.)
proof reading...
Playing a basic plains is motivated by this single niche MU. And we can see from this report that even in this MU, Karakas can help.
Playing the second Basic Plains is motivated by quite a few matchups.
DTB Section (Karakas vs. 2nd Basic Plains)
Ichorid: Karakas is slightly better, sometimes. But often, it doesn't matter.
Goblins: I guess you can bounce Wort and get your Karakas wasted?
Merfolk: Wanna bounce the Vendilion Clique? Maybe Sygg (both of them) gets played. Wasteland gets played for sure.
Aggro Loam: Wasteland and stuff.
Survival: Bounce Iona. Was quite good in testing.
Zoo: Makes their PoP more efficient. And their Path to Exile.
CounterTop: No difference.
Tempo Thresh: Basic Plains Nr.2 is much better.
ANT/NLS: No difference.
Established Decks Karakas looks useful against:
UB Reanimator: See Post #739/740.
Death & Taxes: Seems fine.
Doran Rock: Bounce the namesake. And that's it. And you could run into Wasteland.
Zur:
Suicide with Hexmage/Depths: Sometimes being 20/20 flying indestructible isn't enough. But still; Wasteland.
Established Decks where you rather have the 2nd Plains:
Everything with Wasteland, Dust Bowl, Magus/Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Path to Exile, Price of Progress (Trisomie 21, Pox in general, Lands, Stax, Mirror, Team America, Suicide, Dragon Stompy, Faerie Stompy, MUC, Dreadstill, Sligh, etc.)
Established Decks where it doesn't matter:
Combo, Quinn, stuff
Sometimes against decks with Wasteland and stuff you just need one Basic Plains, but more often than not you want a third basic land in play or open a hand with Karakas as your only land/white source.
I guess Karakas is an option if your meta is full of Survival and you might suprise some Reanimatordecks.
False. I had no counters on Jitte when he passed the turn and I was on a two turn clock.
False. I had no blue mana to flip Vesuvan Shapshifter and no way to get Island instead. Maybe I could have ramped vial to five (???) but Vial is pretty useful in that MU and the only creature that I would remotely want to copy is Akroma. I was already falling behind before he flipped Akroma (he had two morphs that were I assumed both going to become 5/5s which I couldn't handle. I peel BFT off the top only the turn after vialing in Fathom Seer, so I couldn't have known that I would have had time to ramp vial for VS).
False. Karakous would have been a mountain and I didn't have a way to tutor it anyway. IIRC, I also just had the plains in hand, so if it had been a karakous instead, I would have been knocked out.
But thanks for tuning in! Hate to sound so harsh, but you're 0 for 3 on your crazy speculation, including pretty obviously not reading even reading the report very carefully, even after LRRH quoted it.
By the way, everyone watching the game, except possibly my opponent and his friend, thought the game was an epic as hell come from behind and there was a crowd of like 20 people watching, I'm sorry if I didn't convey how cool the situation was. You seemed to do a better job at building the suspense and highlighting how hopeless the situation was. I'll quote you:
Thanks for addressing this option. If you had no way to tutor Karakas, I would greatly accept this analysis. The point is that Karakas is game breaker (and Tutorable) in the Reanimator MU although having plains#2 against zoo versus Kakaras is almost never game breaking. So that you can't just count the MUs where each one is better, you have to compute the utility of each card. Plains#2 utility is lesser because you already have plains#1 to tutor for. And Karakas's utility is greater because of Wayfarer.Playing the second Basic Plains is motivated by quite a few matchups.
DTB Section (Karakas vs. 2nd Basic Plains)
Ichorid: Karakas is slightly better, sometimes. But often, it doesn't matter.
Goblins: I guess you can bounce Wort and get your Karakas wasted?
Merfolk: Wanna bounce the Vendilion Clique? Maybe Sygg (both of them) gets played. Wasteland gets played for sure.
Aggro Loam: Wasteland and stuff.
Survival: Bounce Iona. Was quite good in testing.
Zoo: Makes their PoP more efficient. And their Path to Exile.
CounterTop: No difference.
Tempo Thresh: Basic Plains Nr.2 is much better.
ANT/NLS: No difference.
Established Decks Karakas looks useful against:
UB Reanimator: See Post #739/740.
Death & Taxes: Seems fine.
Doran Rock: Bounce the namesake. And that's it. And you could run into Wasteland.
Zur:
Suicide with Hexmage/Depths: Sometimes being 20/20 flying indestructible isn't enough. But still; Wasteland.
Established Decks where you rather have the 2nd Plains:
Everything with Wasteland, Dust Bowl, Magus/Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Path to Exile, Price of Progress (Trisomie 21, Pox in general, Lands, Stax, Mirror, Team America, Suicide, Dragon Stompy, Faerie Stompy, MUC, Dreadstill, Sligh, etc.)
Established Decks where it doesn't matter:
Combo, Quinn, stuff
Sometimes against decks with Wasteland and stuff you just need one Basic Plains, but more often than not you want a third basic land in play or open a hand with Karakas as your only land/white source.
I guess Karakas is an option if your meta is full of Survival and you might suprise some Reanimatordecks.
Forbiddian: I indeed need proof reading myself. This does not answer my point though.
@Maveric: I did discuss Karakous a bit earlier, particularly in regards to UB Reanimator where Inkwell is their best target regardless.
Against 90% of the decks out there, you'll never want to draw Karakous over plains. And against 95% of the decks out there, you'll never want to tutor a Karakous. It can't just have some marginal use, it has to be the best land in the deck (which means better than wasteland AND better than a land that gives us access to both colors). LRRH's analysis is outstanding, with the caveat that he IS mainly discussing the non-tutorable aspects of it (e.g. when you draw it instead of a Plains).
I agree that tutorability swings way in favor of running the Karakous, but against most (all) of the listed decks, you're not going to tutor it up, it's going to be drawstep or never see it.
You'd only ever tutor it against Survival out of the DTB.Ichorid: Karakas is slightly better, sometimes. But often, it doesn't matter.
Goblins: I guess you can bounce Wort and get your Karakas wasted?
Merfolk: Wanna bounce the Vendilion Clique? Maybe Sygg (both of them) gets played. Wasteland gets played for sure.
Aggro Loam: Wasteland and stuff.
Survival: Bounce Iona. Was quite good in testing.
Zoo: Makes their PoP more efficient. And their Path to Exile.
CounterTop: No difference.
Tempo Thresh: Basic Plains Nr.2 is much better.
ANT/NLS: No difference.
UB Reanimator: See Post #739/740.
Death & Taxes: Seems fine.
Doran Rock: Bounce the namesake. And that's it. And you could run into Wasteland.
Zur:
Suicide with Hexmage/Depths: Sometimes being 20/20 flying indestructible isn't enough. But still; Wasteland.
UB reanimator shouldn't play Iona against you unless the situation is somehow too hairy for a 7/11 trampler to handle, and even then it'll be extremely hard to tutor (and there's no way you dig a preemptive Karakous unless they do something extremely stupid like pass the turn with more lands in play when you have a Wayfarer out and they have Iona sitting in the bin). Some tiny marginal use, though for sure.
Doran Rock you might tutor it -- but if you have a Wayfarer, you'd obviously be getting Wastelands at least the first three times. And it already hoses them and all their removal is going to try to attempt to knock Wayfarer out anyway.
Zur is pretty :D. Tough matchup, too, but all their removal is going toward keeping Wayfarer off the table.
I might tutor it vs. DnT, but they run their own so it's probably just a Wasteland in the end anyway.
Hexmage/Depths, you'd definitely tutor the wasteland first, but the ability to get Karakous is pretty hosey. Still, not a tough MU and Wayfarer is already such a hoser (and already indeed hoses Depths), so all their removal focuses on it anyway.
So mostly (almost exclusively), you either don't want it or Wayfarer is already such a god it doesn't matter. And my list only compares to wasteland, sometimes you'll want Tundra because of mana screw/whatever. From there, read LRRH's analysis for why it's on average, not as good as Plains.
I agree to some degree.
It can be gamebreaking if the reanimate their only viable Karakas target: Iona. But say hi to Inkwell Leviathan and Empyrial Archangel.
Agreed.So that you can't just count the MUs where each one is better, you have to compute the utility of each card. Plains#2 utility is lesser because you already have plains#1 to tutor for. And Karakas's utility is greater because of Wayfarer.
But the added value of Karakas is really low.
It's good against Survival and Reanimator plus Dredge to a lesser extend. But all three decks are easily capable winning
without Iona. And you've gravehate for G2 (and G3).
It's good against Dark Depths, but you already have Swords/Wasteland.
More options never hurt, but on the other side you already have tools to beat the named decks and Karakas makes you more vulnerable to nonbasic hate (See my post above). This can be important if a) you need another white manasource for now and/or the next few turns or b) you draw an opening hand with Karakas and get screwed.
You get a sometimes good utility card which has to be weighed up against a more stable and safer manabase.
It depends on your metagame and the skill of your opponents (Reanimator getting Iona and stuff) if you win more more games thanks to Karakas or lose more because you get screwed.
In my metagame full of Merfolk, Canadian Thresh, ANT/NLS, Zoo I want the second Plains.
Hey, this is the DS player who faced forbidden. imo, karakas is definitely a nonfactor 95% of the time.
I agree mainly w/ forbidden. he played it right, and burrenton-forger was the house against me. and yea, it was a pretty epic game, i'll admit. this was the first time in tournie play akroma couldn't seal the W for me. congrats and good job on wastelands.
What about Karakas in a Tundra Slot? Would that leave the deck with too few U sources?
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I'm no pro, but I have been testing UW tempo a lot online.
The situation I see is this.
Karakus mainly sees play vs reanimator, survival, and hexdepths.
In those cases, u don't usually need to worry about having 2 plains, as ur killing their lands, not the other way around. u can actually stabilize on 1 plains just fine.
The only situation that would be useful in is DS. but again, against DS, not everyone runs akroma (i dont know why!) and most of the time, karakus is ineffective.
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