[DTB] Vial Goblins

[ScatmanX]

I have been running 3 Squad main for a while. Against 2-3 color decks, its just awesome to Waste a Tropical, the remove the others, leaving them without a color. It is happening a lot more than I thought it would.
Squad is great, because it gets by most sideboard cards, like plague, by being huge, BeB, by being black, Propaganda, by being huge again... And agains't any deck, removing 3 Goyfs is simply gamebreaking.
I'll use him this weekend, and share the experiance.

[JonBarber]

I have been running 3 Squad main for a while. Against 2-3 color decks, its just awesome to Waste a Tropical, the remove the others, leaving them without a color. It is happening a lot more than I thought it would.
Squad is great, because it gets by most sideboard cards, like plague, by being huge, BeB, by being black, Propaganda, by being huge again... And agains't any deck, removing 3 Goyfs is simply gamebreaking.
I'll use him this weekend, and share the experiance.

Honestly, I don't think he should be run unless theres a lot of ANT in your meta (in which case you really shouldn't be playing goblins). The list is so tight and hes not worth the slots hes taking up. Goblins doesn't need to rely on strategies like color denial to win. We run wastes for tempo, but its not required.

[danielcrocker]

Hello to all, I am new to this forum and I'm trying to get this list I'm working on fine tuned ...let me know what you think. I'm debating playing r/b splash for a better combo matchup but I feel mono is a better list.


This is the list Jeremy and I came up with ....

Artifacts
4 Aether Vial

Creatures
1 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Siege-gang Commander
3 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin Pyromancer

Basic Lands
18 Mountain

Lands
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Thorn Of Amethyst
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Anarchy

[bakofried]

I'd up the Siege-Gang count. They're amazing in a good lot of MU's.

[jrsthethird]

I would suggest playing a couple Rishidan Ports, and try to find room for Warren Instigator.

[dar482]

Goblin King should be somewhere to randomly win against mirror, Zoo, or whatever decks with Mountains.

[(nameless one)]

Goblin King should be somewhere to randomly win against mirror, Zoo, or whatever decks with Mountains.

Before I used to doubt this call but with the current meta, I think it is the right call.

Not only it helps Goblins by getting bigger, Mountainwalk can finish off Zoo pretty fast. A must kill for Zoo.

[Dino]

I went 4-0 in a small (about 20) people Monday night Legacy event with Rgb Goblins, here's my list:

4 Lackey
4 Ringleader
4 Matron
4 Warchief
3 Piledriver
2 Gempalm
2 SGC
2 Warren Instigator
1 Kiki-jiki
1 Tin Street
1 Stingscorger
1 Goblin Chieftain
3 Warren Weirding
1 Wort
4 Vial
8 Red Fetches
4 Mountain
4 Wastelands
3 Ports
2 Badlands
2 Taiga

SB:
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin King
2 Krosan Grip
3 Perish
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Leyline of the Void

My sideboard is built with a meta that includes graveyard decks, thresh, zoo, few combo decks and no goblin mirrors. The Jitte and E.E.s are pretty random, but are very good against the zoo decks, merfolk, killing goyfs, and random cards with 3 or less mana cost.

I beat merfolk(with goyf) 2-1 with 2 early piledrivers followed by ringleaders, and resolving wort with recurring weirding and gempalm
I then beat Dredge twice, 2-0 and 2-0 with game 1 instigator into SGC and kiki-jiki and game 1 Lackey into SGC into piledriver and warchief. both game 2s involved aggressivly mulliganing to 4 and 5 to drop a leyline that stayed on board until they both scooped a few turns later.
I then beat Green-Black rock with darkdepths combo 2-0 Game 1 on the play with lackey into Warchief into 2 piledrivers the next turn. And Game 2 involved vial into 3 wastelands into warchief -> Wort -> recurring wierding and drawing my 1 jitte right after he played a jitte of his own.

Other sideboard cards I have considered would be Pyrokinesis, Price of Progress, more chieftains, Boartusk Liege (although doesn't work well with Perish), Cabal Therapy, or crypts

I really don't think you should be playing Goblins if you expect a lot of combo decks, Goblins has a horrible game against combo and when they just bounce your hate pieces or chant you then going off, I found that it isn't worth wasting sideboard slots on trying to improve the combo matchups

[danielcrocker]

I really didn't like goblin king that much. If someone is piloting zoo do you really think they will allow it to stay in the game? In the mirror I found goblin pyromancer is really helpful especially since if you are playing mogg war marshall. Using vial to catch them off guard ... Or just swinging for a whole lot the wiping the board. As far as combo goes I just think that we should at least not roll over and die and try to disrupt it in some way ... I still have to test more but I still think I'm going to run thorn, chalice, traps.

[FoulQ]

Goblin King should be somewhere to randomly win against mirror, Zoo, or whatever decks with Mountains.

ARGH. I don't mind if people think goblin king can fit in to certain metagames, but a fringe card played in like 10-25% of goblin decks should not be mentioned as a "should be" next to the sanctity of aether vial, goblin lackey, and most importantly, mountain.

Now for the card itself, why do people still run this?

Firstly against the mirror it is atrocious, because it is only advantegous in a winning position, and in a moment's instant during the combat phase your opponent can gempalm him and fuck up everything, or better yet, be tapped out and cast pyrokinesis and totally surprise rape all your goblins. Do you like rape? I don't. So you shouldn't treat your happy-go-lucky goblins like that (ex. goblin lackey look how happy he is)

Secondly now Zoo. The last thing you usually want to do with zoo is make it a damage race, unless you are already in a very advantegeous position, in which case goblin king could have been something more useful in a losing position (ex. mountain)

I guess y'all just love rolling dice with your games, but think of that tournament entry fee on the line! Would you put all your money on goblin king, even though you know your opponent is flipping in his hand through his lightning bolts and path to exiles and chain lightnings and lightning helixes and swords to plowshares and (including anything with mountains...) his fire/ices and his pyrokinesi (sexy) and his magma jets and his incinerates and his hundreds of other redudant burn spells and his random 1-of fork + shower of sparks combo!?! (never understood those fucks)

And some decks that run mountains and don't have a lot of removal...he's even not that great against them. Unblockable against aggro loam? Congrats, they run like 3 different creatures anyways, did you really need the help for that?

I am making it my personal mission to rip up every goblin king in the universe so that all y'all will never play him again. I've already got a pile building up of about 4 of them.

[markbris]

I've started making some mws videos of me playing my Rb goblins build. Figured you guys might want to check em out if you are bored.

http://www.youtube.com/brisl003#p/u

I'd love to do some videos against some DTB's or something if someone wants to play them against me. Just PM me.

[Arsenal]

I have a mono-red build that's currently running a playset of Lackey, Instigator, and Vial. Between these 12 cards that cheat stuff into play, I'm finding myself less and less impressed with Warchief; often times, I wish it were a Chieftain (I currently run them as a 2-of). My question is this: in mono-red builds running the Lackey/Vial/Instigator playsets, how necessary does Warchief become as an auto 4-of? He does allow for some rediculous mainphases, but often times I feel like it's win-more if I'm able to swing in with my team anyway (among them, a Lackey or Instigator should connect).

[markbris]

I'll say this, have you seen a build that has done well without 4 warchief? I'd never go under 4 in any build really. They let you do rediculous stuff sometimes and the creature cost reduction is awesome alot of the time.

[jrsthethird]

Only time where you don't run Warchief is if you're RB and you run Bannerets instead.

[Brizentine Empire]

I have a mono-red build that's currently running a playset of Lackey, Instigator, and Vial. Between these 12 cards that cheat stuff into play, I'm finding myself less and less impressed with Warchief; often times, I wish it were a Chieftain (I currently run them as a 2-of). My question is this: in mono-red builds running the Lackey/Vial/Instigator playsets, how necessary does Warchief become as an auto 4-of? He does allow for some rediculous mainphases, but often times I feel like it's win-more if I'm able to swing in with my team anyway (among them, a Lackey or Instigator should connect).

Honestly, in my 2+ years experience with the deck, I've found that 4x Warchief and 4x Chieftain is the correct number. Instigator is IncrediBad imo, he's rarely going to get in for damage and you have plenty of other cards to cheat guys into play. I like Mogg War Marshall as well; he is also amazing with the 4x Chieftain. I suggest the list that topped a recent Meandeck open (Johnathan Benson's list) or the list that took second at the recent Star City Games 5k event in Indianapolis. They're the same list, and you can't argue with results. The only difference I would make is playing a 1x Siege-gang as a Matron target, it helps you out in odd spots (Moat, multiple Propaganda effects, etc).

[markbris]

Does anyone want to help me test my Rb goblins list? It's essentially the same one mantis did so well with at GP madrid. I'd like to test against zoo, ant, lands, probant etc. I'll play the other decks and you can play the goblin list if you want, just want to see how the list does. pm me.

[jrsthethird]

Honestly, in my 2+ years experience with the deck, I've found that 4x Warchief and 4x Chieftain is the correct number. Instigator is IncrediBad imo, he's rarely going to get in for damage and you have plenty of other cards to cheat guys into play. I like Mogg War Marshall as well; he is also amazing with the 4x Chieftain. I suggest the list that topped a recent Meandeck open (Johnathan Benson's list) or the list that took second at the recent Star City Games 5k event in Indianapolis. They're the same list, and you can't argue with results. The only difference I would make is playing a 1x Siege-gang as a Matron target, it helps you out in odd spots (Moat, multiple Propaganda effects, etc).

With so many RR cards you would think Instigator is terrible. Also, War Marshal becomes a lot better if you run 4 Cheiftans. It all depends on how you run the key goblins, but I'm sure that you would find that Instigator is amazing and War Marshal is average if you built your deck differently.

[Brizentine Empire]

With so many RR cards you would think Instigator is terrible. Also, War Marshal becomes a lot better if you run 4 Cheiftans. It all depends on how you run the key goblins, but I'm sure that you would find that Instigator is amazing and War Marshal is average if you built your deck differently.

Point taken. I just feel like your turn 2, especially on the draw, should be used to get your lackey through or to greatly enhance the board position, either by dropping a stingscourger or cycling an Incinerator to achieve the first option or to drop War Marshall for the second. I just don't feel like Instigator achieves either of these; it puts another sick goblin into play that's most likely not going to connect against a mojority of the decks out there. By turn three, you're either facing a goyf with removal back-up or multiple merfolk lords, or a few beefy 2/3s or 3/3s from zoo. Still, though, I would love to hear the arguments for Instigator, if they're valid.

[JonBarber]

Point taken. I just feel like your turn 2, especially on the draw, should be used to get your lackey through or to greatly enhance the board position, either by dropping a stingscourger or cycling an Incinerator to achieve the first option or to drop War Marshall for the second. I just don't feel like Instigator achieves either of these; it puts another sick goblin into play that's most likely not going to connect against a mojority of the decks out there. By turn three, you're either facing a goyf with removal back-up or multiple merfolk lords, or a few beefy 2/3s or 3/3s from zoo. Still, though, I would love to hear the arguments for Instigator, if they're valid.

Magic is an extremely adaptable game. Instigator is poor in some metas, and amazing in others. Its all about what you expect to be facing. In a more aggro heavy meta, instigator isn't as good. Your not very likely to get him through, and they likely have removal for him. On the other hand, against a combo/control heavy meta, he is god like. 99% of the time, control decks are going to daze/force your lackey. Your turn two removal becomes pretty shitty at that point. With instigator, your just applying the pressure that much more. Decks like Probant, Team America, MUC dont have many creatures. Backed up with a warren weirding, its surprisingly easy to get instigator through. Against combo, instigator is huge. He allows you to fill the board with goblins so much faster. It gives us a chance to possibly race them.

So don't be so quick to put instigator down. In certain metas, hes really good. In others, not so much. But before telling everyone everywhere not to play him because he's "terribad", think again.

[bakofried]

What's a decent manabase for Mono-R Gobs that uses Winstigator as a 3-of? I'm wondering if I should pop for more Ports, because I'm seeing more and more people drop them to support him.