The quality of the removal (or lack of) in (B) and the fact that you can't play Rhox War Monk or Quasaly Pridemage are enough to make me stay away from UGB in today's metagame. If I really wanted to play (B), I wouldn't play CB-Top and I'd stay away from those Islands so as not to lose to Merfolk. I'd go more with a GWB deck (with Goyf, Confidant, K. Finks, Birds of P., Quasaly P., Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, N.O. + Progenitus, Swords to P., Vindicate and equipment).
@Malakai: why do you say that this deck loses almost always to Zoo, Merfolk and Canadian ***** even adding Goyfs and more removal? With Canadian ***** I see the deck having a hard time playing against Stifle and Wasteland, but adding lots of removal should make the aggro MU's ok.Originally Posted by Malakai
Please discuss your opinion.
pippo84, here's my opinion based on playing both UGB CB-Top in the past and now UGW CB-Top (with N.O) now:
If your creature base consists of Sower + Bob + Goyf (like the list posted on the previous page), then the only effective threat you'll be likely to have on the board will be Goyf (i.e. your other creatures are dangerously inside the burn range). Zoo will play better and cheaper removal than you (i.e. Burn + Path to Exile). Zoo will probably put too much pressure on and off the board before you seal the deal. IMO, playing white + NO gives you better chances to make things stabilize with RWM + Goyf + better removal so you can eventually take the upper hand with either CB-Top or N.O. + Prog and eventually win.
That's why I would play green-black-blue-red countertop...
You have maelstrom pulse, the beater is tombstalker, u got confidant.
this deck is really strong but still loses from NOPRO countertop so^^
My mate always plays it, if somene wants a decklist ask it.
But he has trouble against aggro and also against progenitus.
I'd rather pass on that.
Does anyone have good arguments for/against the following statement: in the current meta, UGW(X) is the best splash for CB decks?
I have already made my case for UGW in previous posts.
yes, play one volcanic island.
For side another volcanic and 3 firespouts.
let's see.
I never^^ lose to zoo and gobblins anymore now after sideboard because I also play a enlightened tutor and 2 ghostly prisons side.
enlightened tutor can fetch it for you.
My sideboard plan is really cool I"m thinking, enlightened tutor is so good^^
aTn, did you see my decklist previous page?
look that, it works wonderly well so try to play it.
If you don't like NOPRO, play 2 elspeth, a new jace and a rafiq (this one owns)
Also, the problem is that I want one more land but don't know what to take out...
Maybe the 2 kitchen finks and then a land and an enlightened tutor main hehe
We'll see tomorrow on legacy event GP Brussel (Living in Belgium so)
I have no doubt that Red is the best color to splash if you want to splash something in UGW CB Decks, red just solve the problems against your worst matchs ( Zoo , Goblin , Merfolk). NOPro can solve the Zoo problem but firespout is much better when you are at low life and against Goblins and Merfolks, but i don't know if you can run noble + firespout(cause you are hurting your fragile manabase).
On the other hand , you have Black which can give Dark Confident( not so good against aggro) and some hate against Pro (edict effects) , against Reanimator( reanimate itself , faerie , edicts or black removal for iona on white and inkwell) and some sort of tribal hate( Plague).
I found myself testing NOPro build with no splash but if I begin to face many merfolks and goblins I will change to SupremeBlue without thinking once.
I hope the discussion about UGW x UGW(x) x No-Pro (which for me seems to be a metagame call) have more SB plans and game plans cause they are similar lists but with diferent goals.
Super Bizarros Team.
HUEHUEHUE BRBRBR. VIVA DILMA!!! EM NOME DE JESUS CRISTO!
The good thing is that we don't have alot of merfolk decks because people here think it's a lame deck^^
But hierarch and firespout together goes pritty good, what you woudn't think...
My build is this so; IMO yes. Swords, Path and Knight Of The Reliquary are real good. Ethersworn Canonist and Gaddock Teeg are good storm stoppers too. You also get Bant colors: Noble Hierarch and Qasali Pridemage. With all this Exalted power I like swinging with a single flyer IE: Vendilion Clique.
so how did u do in brussel? I went 5-1-2 getting a draw vs dreadstill and a draw vs some uber staller where judges did nothing against. game was mine time was up. Too bad.
sorry, missed my train fack that :P
but there's next week the first trial for the belgian legacy cup in Brussel so with byes for Bazaar.
But did you play survival or another deck now?
i'll talk yah at Benelegacy :P
friend of me did go top 50 but he stayed there saturday and I haven't been there saturday because I had to play football^^
Do you know the top 8 and with how many players you guys were??
I played counter top cause I did not plan to go to this event. I lend my loyal retainer to someone else :) we where 145 I believe.
Dont know the T8
it contained: counter top, fish, ant and more.
Last edited by Waikiki; 03-31-2010 at 04:05 AM.
Hi guys, I was just reading GP Madrid's Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa Report at Channel Fireball and found that he and other people board out FoW against mirror matchs and other matchups which makes no sense for me.
So playing UGW , SupremeBlue or CounterTop Progenitus which are the matchs that you guys sideout FoW , for what and why?
Super Bizarros Team.
HUEHUEHUE BRBRBR. VIVA DILMA!!! EM NOME DE JESUS CRISTO!
I do think there is some CardAdvantage=Win point of View here ?!
IF they switch FoW for Dispell or SpellPierce (or a mix), they keep the same amount of countermeasure for CounterWars or vs decks with a thick threat density.
But even with a cc of 1, leaving at least 1-2 mana open each turn having or bluffing Dispel//Pierce//Snare in hand is slowing the deck which then slide from an Aggro-Control to a Control(-Aggro) approach. Ok, some opponent's early bomb can sneak through early game due to that, but the deck is packing enough answers beside the permission package, so it isn't a big deal...
Extensive testing (> 100 games), as well as playing the deck in tournament environments. Like I said, I believed the deck to be good, and so spent a lot of effort on it.
I board it out against zoo and gobblins lol :P^^
Not against mirror, u want to counter the things that aren't good for you ^^
Can someone explain to me the differences between Supreme Blue and NO Countertop, matchup-wise? Which areas get stronger or weaker by switching between them? Sorry if this is a stupid question.
From my point of view and based on my extensive tests.
Supreme Blue has Ponders + Firespout and usually 2 basic lands(islands) while NO Contertop has Noble Hierarch + NO + Progenitus, so Supreme Blue is more controlish than NO builds , ponders can help you to set up CB + Top as soon as possible and dig for answers , since you play 4 colors your mana base is more fragile (you run only 2 basic lands) , Firespout + RWM + Trygon make you counter 3cc spells easier than other builds , and Firespout is there to deal with Zoo , Goblins and Merfolks which are "Problematic matchups for Cb decks" it is a one side only wrath of god , so Supreme Blue is the anti-aggro Counterbalance list.
In NO Countertop you cut some lands and ponders to fit basic lands (basic forest , islands and sometimes plains) and noble hierarchs which gives you more acelleration and help you to go offensive/explosive sometimes( T2 RWM or CB with daze proof).No + Pro gives you some 4cc spells which is a weakness in SupremeBlue lists, also it provides a explosive T3 NO and some insane top deck win(because you can just fetch the dryad arbor and cast it), noble hierarchs also helps to avoid mana screw due to wastelands but make your manabase more green.Here you can take an aggro hole or a control hole looking your hand and thinking about the matchup.
My advice is: play Supreme Blue if your meta has many Merfolks , Goblins and Edicts + Perish Sideboard decks. If your meta aggro decks are Zoo and there aren't too much Aggro Loams then you can play with NO Countertop.
Super Bizarros Team.
HUEHUEHUE BRBRBR. VIVA DILMA!!! EM NOME DE JESUS CRISTO!
Thanks for the breakdown; I was going to ask that too.
What about the Nassif or Probasco builds? More specifically, what are the strengths and weakness of those relative to Supreme Blue or NO Pro? Are these decks outdated, or are there still reasons to run those versions?
I think they both have same problem. Both of them was designed for counter/top mirror or similar. Also they are too slow now then there is running zoo, merfolk and goblins. There is couple reasons to now play, IF you don't have meta where everyone plays countertop or other aggro-control decks.
Shimi:
You said that Supreme Blue is better against merfolks and goblins. Yes, firespout is nice to have, but there is also other side. Merfolks play wasteland and even Stifle to make sure you won't be resolving firespout easily. Goblins have their own cards, like wasteland and rishadan port to shutdown your Volcanic islands. Firespout isn't even enought often against goblins, they can recover too easily if they don't play dummy. But if you have luck and your manabase won't bet raped by merfolk or goblins then firespout will shine (just if you can remove or counter enought lords to make it effective..).
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