Has anyone tested replacing a Fathom Seer or two with Sea Drake, or is drawing cards noticeably more important than a flying beater? I've noticed that in a lot of Forbiddian's youtube matches the card draw seems to be the thing that puts him over the edge but he very rarely gets to start putting down Morphs until the opponent is nearly beaten into submission.
Also, I think his lists run more Dazes/Spell Pierces/Vials...or at least, I thought he did. How did you make room for the Vexing Sphinxes, pi4? Do you find yourself less with less consistent disruption early in the game?
Yeah I was a little surprised about that too. The Sphinx's I mean. I like the idea and all but when you aren't likely to move vial from 2 to 3, I guess you'd have to hardcast it like Fathom Seer. How often do you keep it alive? It looks sick, being able to act as a filter, beater, and draw spell.
Jeff or Matt, can you post an updated list?
Matt told me he would post and comment on some videos where I played sphinx as soon as he had time. The last list I posted is up to date, and sphinx has been working well. Sphinx is costly, but it's worth it. If you want to see an example of this, I recommend watching my video when Matt puts it online.Originally Posted by Vacrix
Matt and I both have school right now, so we might not do as many videos. But if we do, he'll probably do more, but it might be fun for him and I to switch some games so we can see more behind the scenes on how the other guy plays.
So, what is the general concensus with Vexing Sphinx? Is it a cute card, a necessary card? How does it make the deck better?
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
It acts as a card filter, beats for 4 evasively, and draws you cards when it dies. Nof said. I think its a great add and I'd love to test it if I could get my dam MWS working on my Mac..So, what is the general concensus with Vexing Sphinx? Is it a cute card, a necessary card? How does it make the deck better?
I would love to see the current list right now.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
... I just posted it hours ago... post 900.
Oh, sorry about that... Thanks anyways Pi!
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
How would you compare Fathom Seer and Vexing Sphinx? If at all. My analysis is:
-Both initially cost 3.
-Both draw you cards
-Both can hold Jitte
-Both need 2 islands in play
Fathom Seer
-Bounces your Islands, which creates Wayfarer interactions
-Looks like an Exalted Angel to an opponent who isn't familiar with the deck
-Beats for 1 unmorphed, and 2 morphed
-Stays in play until removed
Vexing Sphinx
-Beats for 4
-Acts as a card filter
-Evasive
-Will often draw you more cards than Fathom Seer (3 from Sphinx vs. 2 from Seer)
-Eventually leaves play due to upkeep issues
Therefore, I believe that +1 Sphinx, -1 Seer is a good idea. Thoughts on this?
You are forgetting that Fathom seer also guards against land destruction and provides a more favorable matchup with fish/merfolk. I think it the ratio is fine as it is currentlyHow would you compare Fathom Seer and Vexing Sphinx? If at all. My analysis is:
-Both initially cost 3.
-Both draw you cards
-Both can hold Jitte
-Both need 2 islands in play
Fathom Seer
-Bounces your Islands, which creates Wayfarer interactions
-Looks like an Exalted Angel to an opponent who isn't familiar with the deck
-Beats for 1 unmorphed, and 2 morphed
-Stays in play until removed
Vexing Sphinx
-Beats for 4
-Acts as a card filter
-Evasive
-Will often draw you more cards than Fathom Seer (3 from Sphinx vs. 2 from Seer)
-Eventually leaves play due to upkeep issues
Therefore, I believe that +1 Sphinx, -1 Seer is a good idea. Thoughts on this?
True. I knew I was leaving something out.
I'd still try that config if I could somehow. VMware fails at using MWS..
Hi, I'm kind of a legacy noob, but I'm interested in participating in the data collection, and helping to improve the deck and how well I play it. I've taken this deck to the weekly legacy tourney at the local shop twice now, and have just returned from a successful outing. I'm not sure if I should report the results from my first tourney, since it was my 1st time playing the deck, and only my 2nd time playing Legacy ever, so it doesn't seem that helpful in evaluating the deck's performance. In any case, I finished with a 3-0-1 record tonight, with an ID at the top table to split the prize. I played pi4meterftw's latest build with vexing sphinx and curfews in the SB.
Round 1 vs. UW Landstill (2-0): Game 1 on the play, he plays standstill when I have wayfarer in play, and eventually has to break it when I fetch a wasteland for his mishra's factory. He sticks a humility and jace, the mind sculptor, but I just attack through with 3 donks and a jitte. Some notable play errors: playing wayfarer before mom on turn 1 on the play. Played a fetched wasteland with no targets (and no reason) which evened out the land count and turned off my wayfarer. SB -4 swords, +2 aura +2 tutor.
Game 2: I have wayfarer, and he plays top and EE for 1, so I just play > 1CC guys and jitte. He picks off my guys with swords and paths, but refuses to blow up the EE. I have fathom seers, so I'm able to keep drawing into more threats, and eventually I play aura, but it's pretty much over by then. Play errors: forgot to tutor for jitte when I played sfm because I already had jitte in hand. Wasn't careful with mana and occasionally ended up with an untapped wasteland instead of leaving up SP mana.
Round 2 vs. CB Top-Progenitus (2-1): Game 1 on the draw, we both mulligan to 5 and I keep a hand with 2 wasteland and a wayfarer, hoping to lock him out and draw into a white source. After getting his first land wasted, he starts fetching for basics, and gets a few basics, wall of roots, and some uncracked fetches on the table before I can draw my first colored source. When I finally get a tundra into play, I run out a mom as bait, but failed to see that he had natural order mana +1 on the table. He puts progenitus into play while I stare at the spell pierce in my hand. SB -2 Sphinx +2 Aura of Silence
Game 2 on the play, I land turn 1 wayfarer, and basically use it to draw every single land in my deck. He doesn't play much, except a trygon predator, and I eventually finish him off with a grunt. Notable play errors: walked a fathom seer into a daze. During a wayfarer trick with a fetch, I forget to actually fetch a land and put it into play. With all the wayfarer action, game 2 took up a huge chunk of time, and we were only left with 10 minutes left for the 3rd.
Game 3, I get 2 moms and a wayfarer online facing two 5/6 goyfs. I force his natural order and get avatar + jitte into play as time is called. I only get two attack steps, which isn't enough. He EEs away my 1 drops, but graciously decides to concede to me on the last turn when I show him 2 swords in hand. Notable play errors: should have just blocked with avatar + jitte counters instead of showing the swords.
Round 3 vs Dragon Stompy (2-0): Game 1 on the play, I brainstorm in response to his chalice on 1, but decide not to force it because I have a bunch of 2 drops in hand. I waste his city of traitors after he plays trinisphere, and he doesn't have enough mana to do anything for the rest of the game as I run him over with avatar + morph + jitte. I know not forcing the chalice was questionable considering how many 1CC spells are in the deck, but I had no idea what he was playing and no 1 drops in hand after the brainstorm, so I wanted to save the force for something more immediately relevant.
Game 2: I sideboarded -4 swords, +2 aura, +1 thorn, +1 tutor because I thought he was mono-red stax, and was really confused when he dropped a jitte and a morph. I sfm into my own jitte and legend rule his while he flips garthan raiders and plays taurean mauler. With the coast clear of jitte counters, I drop jotan grunt (which ended up ticking up to 4 age counters by the end) and avatar. He elects to chump the grunt over successive turns, I guess hoping that he'll draw something or that the graveyards would empty out, but I use wasteland and daze something irrelevant that he can pay for to prolong my grunt's life long enough to finish him off. Note: I only had 2 land for most of this game, demonstrating the deck's resiliency when mana-constrained.
Round 4 vs BG Dark Depths (ID): Was kind of interested in trying this matchup, but he was busy doing other stuff, so I decided to call it a night.
As you can see, there's a lot of room for personal improvement, but hopefully some readers can learn from my play errors.
Nice work Huygee. I assume you mean 'Avenger' when you say 'Avatar'?
Oops. Yeah, I meant avenger.
Something weird happened today. I went to time 3 out of 4 matches.
R1. 0-1 to UR Fish. Game1 Got raped by maindeck Sulfur Elemental + Lavamancer + Jitte. Game 2 was long, I managed to come from behind with a timed EE (played 2 in S/B), to finish in turns. I was somewhat upperhand, but its time anyway.
R2. UW Mystic Fish. Quickly lost game1, won game2 with a series of nice topdecks, and in 3rd game, where I was seriously upperhand, turns were announced. I couldn't deal enough damage, so that's draw.
R3. Zoo. I win a long game1, Game 2, I manage to get some edge with a well timed EE, but I'm low on life. We go into topdeck war, where my mom + multiple jittes (Gripped/Qasaled) happen to exhaust his resources on turn 4 of additional turns. Well, I still win 1-0.
R4. BGW Rock. 2-0, that build is easy to play against.
Hi guys! I'v been giving this deck a try and would like to ask some things. I've played pi4meterftw's list and I've started wondering how useful is Aether Vial as a 2-of. I very rarely draw it in the first turns, so, when I draw it, I'd rather use mana on Wayfarer card advantage, playing Brainstorm and many other things. This deck seems realtively mana hungry considering we play with 1-3 lands most of time. So, I wonder, what's the point on playing Vial as a 2-of. Am I the only one concerned with this?
Sphinx seems a little winmore, as is only good when you have repeatedly activated Wayfarer and your hand is full of chaff. As other people, I've wondered if Vandilion Clique would be better. I don't know, it seems more consistent as it needs less "setup", this is mostly a control deck that needs to get rid of many things before they come into play. However I've heard it has worked nicely for you, so I guess it deserves more testing.
And finally...have you guys considering running something like Maze of Ith or any other utility land, to be tutored by Wayfarer? This is a controlish deck and tries to handle the opponents threats, but you can't stop everything, and sometimes a pesky big boy enters the battlefield and you have no answers for it, then, the only thing you can do is pray for StP. In those situations, I hate when I have Wayfarer in play, my opponent succesfully casts a Tombstlaker or Vendilion Clique and all I can do is generate card advantage for some turns while I die. What do you think about this?
We tried to copy the Source, but then we realized we're spanish
If my post results dumb or offensive, it's probably just me miserably failing at being ironic in a foreign language
Yeah, if there was a BB 5/5 flying with no drawback in the format, we wouldn't be able to handle it. However, it does have a drawback. We got lucky in that jotun grunt can stop tombstalker and goyf from being scary. The situation you described should also happen only rarely because both wayfarer and mom in most matchups are cards such that once they come into play every removal spell your opponent casts should target them until they die. We of course hope that wayfarer wins the game, but for smart opponents, it usually ends up being: 1:1 trade with 1:1 tempo and +1 life, or even path-> gg. (Path is horrible) or the worst case is lightning bolt, which is even against zoo. The rest of your points have been addressed in this thread, even, and especially your comment about 2 vials.
Hello deck creators and avid users of Land Hax.dec!
I myself am a fan of the Parfait Engine (Land Tax/Scroll Rack toolbox engine). I have been doing research on making this engine efficient in Legacy (I cant seem to make it work on this format and yes, I know Land Tax is banned).
Anyways, while doing research, I came across this thread:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?11391-[DECK]-Parfait-Beatdown
It essentially follows the same principle of the deck, but it has more toolbox appeal to it.
Is it possible that we can borrow some ideas off of that forgotten thread?
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Just got back from the Shuffle and Cut tourney for duals today. I didnt fare so well but my teammate Clarence Klase took UW Tempo and ended up 6th after the 6 rounds of swiss and took it all the way to finals for a prize split. His list is the list packing 3 md jotun grunt instead of the miser KOTWO and no vexing sphinx. His Matchups were as follows if I remember correctly.
Round 1 Zoo draw (1-1-1)
0-0-1
Round 2 Merfolk loss (2-1)
0-1-1
Round 3 Zoo win (2-0)
1-1-1
Round 4 Bant Survival win (2-0)
2-1-1
Round 5 Merfolk win (2-0)
3-1-1
Round 6 Rgb Goblins win(2-0)
4-1-1
Cut to top8 which consists of
4x Merfolk (all mono blue)
1x ANT (straight blue black)
1x Pro Bant
1x Reanimator
1x UW Tempo
Quarterfinals against Merfolk win (2-0)
Semifinals against Merfolk win (2-0)
Finals split with Merfolk
After Clarence won his semi final match he didnt know the guy was playing merfolk because he most certainly wouldve played it out. In the end he got the duals he wanted anyway so it didnt matter. So this deck really does smash merfolk. The one match Clarence lost to merfolk was he kept a very very shaky hand that relied on sticking his vial of his only land (wasteland) which got FOW'd and also involved the merfolk player to perfectly curve out with lords and jitte while Clarence did not draw a colored land over the next 6 turns. Other than that both of the matches Clarence played in the top8, the merfolk players never had a chance.
Pro stuff, right there.
EDIT: Ack, that was a worthless post, so I'll move the discussion along.
What list did you play, what matchups did you face, what was good, what wrecked you, what was good out of the board?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote