Tinefol has the right idea.
1 and 2 I definitely agree on (although one is so hard to determine for sure, he'd have to have missed a land drop already). I would consider 3 to be just on part of a larger group of strange-situations-where-it's-ok-to-counter-Top.
So yeah, say your opponent has a fetchland out, three other lands, no cards in hand, and then he taps out his non-fetches to play Goyf and Top, obviously you spell pierce the top.
Or like your hand is loaded with heavy spells but no land disruption, so you want to get rid of cards like Spell Pierce and know you won't be open to cast it for a while regardless of what you're afraid of. I can think of other exceptions, but you'll probably notice them in the course of the game.
The point is that you'll need some outside justification to even Spell Pierce a Top, and a very, very good reason to use a Force of Will.
Possibly it's a difference with UW Tempo generally putting them under mana pressure, but I think it's just a misevaluation of the relative effectiveness of cards. When I look over a list like NO Bant or CB Bant, I don't see very many cards that stand out as something that they're looking for. It's all the same reasonably useful cards. It's not like they can look for Ancestral Recall or something and that digging to power cards is worth a card and a bunch of mana.
Since all the cards are basically the same (Goyf vs. Lifelink Goyf, etc. it doesn't matter, you'd rather just draw one without wasting extra mana) the only real choice that Top gives you is you get to pick whether you want a land or non-land. That sounds extremely powerful, but in practice you never get that choice.
But using Top the way it "should be" used is predicated on drawing multiple fetchlands to shuffle away the cards you don't want.
That means you don't GET to pick non-land (at least not for long -- you end up having to pick about the same ratio as land/non-land that you would have gotten anyway, meaning that top was useless) and if you want to pick land because you're mana screwed or whatever, it costs you mana to pick land and then you need to luck into the land to keep using it to get more land.
About the free slot/slots in main now filled by sphinx.
Have you guys considered spellstutter sprite? It sound most reasonable and fits well NoGoyf style of play.
There was a tournament I entered several weeks ago, and I saw a girl playing what I thought was some weird deck. But after recalling some of the cards, looking at the original poster's decklist, and seeing the video, i think it really is deck since it runs seer and wayfayer. I am kinda curious at this deck but would like to ask about some match ups.
Combo decks aside, how does this deck fair against fast aggro decks, say goblins or zoo. Also how does this deck fair against decks that like to sweep the board like Landstill? Thanks, I'll try reading through the pages, but may take some time due to the amount of pages so far.
Always looking for more people to play in the Chicago area. Anyone interested send me a PM.
In my limited testing I found that Goblins is very doable especially if you are able to keep their Vial off the table. Zoo is a bad match-up, personally I don't think its ever gonna be a favourable matchup at alll, not even after sideboarding. Don't know about landstill.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Goblins is a bye, Landstill is a bye, Zoo is around 40%.
Didn't Jeff report some problems with 4c landstill? I know when I played it last tourney it was rough going.Originally Posted by Forbiddian
Yeah 4cc isn't a bye. But it's a pretty good MU at like 60%. I'm sure what Matt meant was the UW build, which essentially is a bye.
I'm also able to win more than 40%, but I have a feeling it's because of an experience difference between my opponents and I.
I'm pretty new to legacy. I've done enough reading to know the main decks pretty well and the strengths of different cards, but I've only played about 20 legacy games total (4 real life games as burn, 4 RL as merfolk, 10ish as UW tempo on mws). I really enjoy this deck and have been following this thread since Jeff's performance at the SCG 5k in January.
My issue is that I don't really know when I'm making play mistakes. I do think that this deck is innately powerful, and because of that, I seem to be winning most of matches I've played with it. That is a problem because I'm not being punished for my mistakes, so I don't really know when they are mistakes.
I've watched Matt's videos on YouTube, and that gives me a general idea. Any other suggestions?
When the mistake is not obvious you need other people to tell you. There have been plenty of times I thought I didnt make any play mistakes (because my choices didn't have any negative effect) but people pointed out I could have played better. Ask friends who are better than you to watch you play when they're finished playing themselves. And don't forget to ask why their solution would've been better.
And you'll also find out that the more you play the more you realize it when you actually made a mistake.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Ouch. LSV dissed UW Tempo in his latest article on CF. I may be partially responsible for this because I punted pretty badly when I played it against him. I think I was a little starstruck. Anyway, I'm interested in finding experienced UW Tempo players to practice with and help me fix my play errors so that I'll be ready for the next time. I'm new to the Source, so I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this, but message me if you're interested.
Well, whatever. The bigger worry is how'd you lose to LSV? What was he playing? Like zoo or something?
He played countertop splashing black for dark confidant. Game 1, I forget about the exalted trigger and try to vial in a jotun grunt to block a rhox war monk. I'm on tilt and do basically the same thing a turn later. Game 2, he gets a CB lock and I have a vial at 2 on the table, but since I can't play the mother of runes in hand, he steals my angel with sower and that was game.
Also, I've read through the thread, and didn't see anything about the matchup vs. merfolk w/ goyf + jitte. I'm having a really hard time with that matchup, since it seems like they do have threats on par with yours, and more aether vials to out-tempo you.
Yeah, a lot of people obviously punted away opportunities to win with this deck. Definitely myself included, I double choked my single-elimination matches. Don't beat yourself up about it, the important thing is just to make the top 8.
As far as getting better, I really recommend that you record your matches and watch them back. If you post them on youtube or send me the .avi, I'll be happy to watch/leave comments/whatever if you'd like. But mainly you can just watch them yourself. Just go through one game and look at every single play that you made.
You'll be able to see a lot of mistakes and a lot of patterns of mistakes that you can work on.
It's not a big deal, but thought I'd update you guys on the MTGSalvation tournament.
For sure I'm into the top 8 at 3-0-1. Had very easy matchups (but then again, I can't really think of any matchups I'd consider "hard," I guess I dodged Zoo). The draw was unintentional because he was moving and I was starting my term both that week. My last two opponents didn't want me to post the games, but I have them recorded and I'll put them up once the tournament is over.
Honestly, I'd have been very surprised not to make this top 8, but we'll see how I do in a couple weeks. Yeah, the tournament is slow. Zzz.
I won yesterday's weekly Legacy tournament here, going 3-0-1, beating a weird, sub-par UW Aggro build with a lot of shroudy critters, including Wall of Denial and some Sphinx whose name I'd forgot (2-0), Bant Survival (2-0, although my opponent was rather crippled by mana screw, and later mana flood), non-Imperial Painter (2-0, my opponent's biggest play mistake allowed my freshly cast Jotun Grunt to save me from decking - it's really nice when Grunt works as a tutor for your two next draws and fetches those Aura of Silence out of your _fat_ graveyard :D), and drawing against Trisomy 21 (1-1, as the extraturns of the third match could not produce a winner).
If anyone has suggestions on how to imrpove the Trisomy 21 matchup, I'd be happy to know. Maybe Mystic Remora could be worth a shot in this matchup? (Trisomy 21 runs exactly _one_ creature, so Remora should at least draw one or two cards for me - haven't tested this assumption yet, though).
I might invest more into MTGO when Urza's Legacy goes live to win a bunch of packs. The MTGO metagame looks unbelievably favorable right now for anybody playing UW Tempo. To the point where I'd be surprised not to win all the dailies.
It's like Goblins, Goblins, Goblins, Dredge, ANT. Rofl.
Wouldn't Benevolent Bodyguard be a somewhat useable replacement (especially with a Vial @1) until Mom comes out?
No. I'd probably go back to Meddling Mage or something else awful. I mean, the deck still dominated with Meddling Mage, but Mother of Runes was just a massive improvement.
I'm new to playing this deck and I was wondering how it was matched up against dreadstill. But so far I really like this deck, its tested well so far. I'm iffy on vexing sphinx but I want to test it with and without to see which build I like more
wheel of sun and moon
aura of silence
aura of silence
curfew
curfew
jotun grunt
burrenton forge-tender
burrenton forge-tender
burrenton forge-tender
tormod's
relic of progenitus
thorn of amethist
tutor
tutor
canonist
This is the sideboard I'm thinking of using, any thoughts?
Dreadstill is an easy matchup.
What else is in your metagame?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote