Yes, assuming you open with lackey, that is true... but how did anything I said conflict with Lackey--did I say, don't use lackey.. use him? I said "looks like a great way to stall big creature decks...could be a desc SB"Originally Posted by JonBarber
And goblin goon is a pretty bad card in comparison. Its drawback is pretty bad and wouldnt ever fit with vial imo.
If they run white removal, they might remove it and that sucks. If I play a confidant, if they sword it its gone too. I see what your saying, but its just very generalized argument about just about anything that doesn't have comes into play.They are just going to StP/path him all day long.
I didn't say that, I said great stall card at best.. maybe SB, not for goblins as a whole.But I certainly wouldn't say he's a "great card" for Goblins as a whole
@Chaos
That's a good point with Pyroclasm. Didn't think of that.
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
And very good agains't Agroo Loam too.
That said, I didn't like him in any build i've tried yet. Goblins is a thiter deck than it seems.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I believe you are all looking at this wrongly.
It seems to be that the general opinion is that Tuk Tuk is an efficient, if conditional, creature. A 5/5 for 2R a lot of the time, with major stalling applications.
However, I don't think we should look to this deck as "efficient." We will be outclassed by real legacy decks. I realized this long ago: I kept feeling like every match was an uphill battle against goyfs and mongeese (back when he was everywhere too). It's when you stop worrying about efficiency in your cards and look at the more abstract concept of the "goblin engine." Tuk Tuk has no place in the engine, and I think he will be reserved for potential sideboard, but even then he's kind of slow. An addition to the engine requires a card that naturally fits into it: warren instigator, since the deck is naturally built to cheat guys into play because we had already been playing lackey and vial. Weirding, because the engine's problem was one big wall fucking our plans. Tuk tuk, for what? Stingscourger is better at stalling. Piledriver is better at muscle. Weirding is better at goyfkilling.
I'm not going to write off this card completely, because that is a dumb thing to do. In fact, I have no idea what will happen with this card. But my core instincts that I have developed playing the deck make me think he doesn't really have a place, although I do really like the card design (a creative use of the legend rule, to say the least).
I see him as a replacement for Mogg War Marshall, not as the reigning champion of goblins.
Also:
How is Goblin Chieftain vs. Zoo? Right now I'm running a 3/3 split with Warchief, but I'm considering upping Warchief to 4, cutting the remaining chieftains, and throwing in a Boartusk Liege as well as a Goblin Tinkerer.
Last edited by bakofried; 04-09-2010 at 12:17 AM.
Chieftain is good agains't Zoo. But Liege is better. But agains't most other decks, Chieftains are better. So I'd run Ftains MD, and Liege SB (if you really want them)
Warchief should be a 4 off, so please add 1 more.
Tinkerer is SB material, but depending on your meta, 1 MD is completly ok.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Since goblins seems to sideboard frequently Is there any merit to running burning wish main?
Available for wish are
Perish
Anarchy
Shattering spree
Cabal Therapy / Duress / Thoughtseize
...Maybe even move Warren Weirding to SB in this case to create the room?
The disadvantages being Burning Wish is not a goblin, and you will still need to SB graveyard hate and other matchups.
You could opt for Cranial Extraction, Decompose, Haunting Echoes, Rats' Feast, or Thought Hemorrhage.
Not like they're good ideas, but options nonetheless.
You want a patriarch's bidding in there.
I never understood how patriarch's bidding gets around engineered plague, when they return they'd just be killed again? o_O
You have extensive GY hate knowledge, ty.
Here's the list I should be running tonight:
Lands:
Wasteland x2 (Should be fixed soon)
Rishadan Port x2
Mountain x18
Creatures:
Siege-Gang Commander x3
Goblin Ringleader x4
Goblin Matron x4
Goblin Warchief x4
Gempalm Incinerator x3
Warren Instigator x4
Goblin Piledriver x4
Stingscourger x3
Goblin Tinkerer x1
Goblin Lackey x4
Artifacts:
Aether Vial x4
Sideboard:
Pyrokinesis x4
Thorn of Amethyst x4
Anarchy x3
Blood Moon x3
Open Slot x1
What do you think? I don't know what to put in the open slot, also, should I board in Blood Moon for Zoo, on top of Pyrokinesis? Or should I just board in 1 or the other?
If you have 1 or 2 Chieftains / Mad Aunties / King / Liege in your yard, all your dudes will get bigger, so they won't day, since every goblin enter the battlefield the same time.
@bakofried: deck looks nice.
You should only add Moon if the zoo list you playing uses few basics. The last one I playied agains't used PoP and like, 5-6 basics, so Moons would have sucked.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
As far as I know, it's fairly basic-lite. Last match, favorite part was hitting a Blood Moon while he had a KotR on the field (1 basic forest). My follow-up? Stingscourger the Knight. He was not happy(EDIT due to unfortunate choice of words). Unfortunately, he landed Jitte and proceeded to rape my face.
Well, I got first, but the only tough match was against a U/W control list with Painter's Grindstone in the main FTW, and Baneslayer in the side. I went 2-1 officially, but I did that just for to help him with Tiebreakers (I was already secured for first, and had won 2-0) I fought through recursive Engineered Explosives (ala Academy Ruins) and a Baneslayer, as well as a set-up CounterTop Engine. Goblin Matron was king here, and the singleton Tinkerer helped, even though it was immediately Pithing Needled.
Last edited by bakofried; 04-10-2010 at 02:04 AM.
Hey there, I'm new here hehe, but have been looking this thread for many months.
Btw, what do you guys think about David Sharfman's Goblins RB? Actually, I've read his artcile but didn't find any mention about why taking out or not even considering put Warren Instigator. Another curious thing is the mana base, including Ports (which FoulQ says that dont fit the ideal mana base).
Btw2: What do you guys think about Thorn of Amethyst? It's a sb for combo purpouses, right? Isn't it a little bit slow if compared with the U trap?
cya :D
My current list is -1 sgc (rarely want to see him on my opening hand or even run into 2 of them the same game) -2 port (i think port is just win more) +1 mountain + 1 chieftain (extremely good with instigator and very good vs aggro) +1 instigator (he's a very good turn 2 drop, he has to be answered because of matron+sgc threat)
I won't ever cut piledriver because he is the best beater we have. He will always kill a creature, get removal or deal a lot of damage and he can win a game when surprising with haste.
Oh, quick note. I managed to do a little scouting prior to the tournament, so I swapped Anarchy, along with the open slot, for 4 Pithing Needles.
You can't dispute David Sharfman's success and most goblin decks are just differ and few cards it is a over all good build.
The problem I have with Rishadan Port is, Rishadan Port up my hands I have to throw back due to lack of red mana.
I have never had much luck with the Mindbreak Trap, ANT has almost always had answers for it Duress, Chant etc, I have had better success with Mindbreak Trap against Belcher.
-Zay
Sharfman's build is interesting, but I don't have a heck of a lot to comment on. I would just say that he doesn't run instigator and instead chooses to keep the 2 slot open for cycling Gempalm Incinerator. I'm not sure what the strongest decision is on that and I can't really comment on if there is one. Instigator can trade with 2/2's, which I find very appealing, but he doesn't help vs Lavamancers, which is unfortunate. Though, as for your other concerns...
Concerning Port:
Rishadan Port backs up Lackey, Instigator, etc. and has great synergy with Vial as well. It's good to supplement Wastelands but on the draw can be a "virtual dead card" sometimes. There have also been several times when having Wastelands and Ports has ruined my turn 2 Instigator, however I don't think that the percentage of times they've necessitated me taking a mulligan warrants a change in mana base as much as it does a change in 2cc card choice. All in all, Port is a strong card in many match ups, allowing alternate creature drops to shine when casting them becomes a non-option. Knowing when and what to port is more important and that comes with knowing the other player's deck. As a supporter (mind the pun) the card has a lot of potential to reach into the mid game and can disrupt fragile mana bases for several turns. Making any sort of recovery nearly impossible and complementing cards such as Thorn of Amethyst in conjunction with Lackey, Instigator or Vial.
Concerning Thorn in the sideboard:
As far as Thorn of Amethyst, I think it's a metagame choice and codependent on the iteration of goblins that you've chosen to run. Mono-R should board Thorn as a way to hedge against ANT's mana production and to force them further into the mid-late game, while Rb has Earwig Squad to extract pinpoint threats from their library. While the latter doesn't affect the cards in hand, it is still considerably strong with the amount of "digging" that the deck does for a win condition sometimes, making it a strong (if not stronger) threat compared to Thorns. The spell trap is very good and very fast, but if they see you aggressively mulliganing until you rip one, they will certainly be chanting/duress/thoughtseizing you before they go off.
(PS: I board Pyrostatic Pillar. It's great in my meta vs Elfball, ANT and Solidarity.)
Disclaimer/conclusion:
This is just one opinion to consider. Hope this all helped. :)
Last edited by overpowered; 04-11-2010 at 11:44 PM.
Played MonoR at a ~95 players tournament for a 5-2, yesterday.
I lost to a guy with BGw Rock, or something like that, who completely outplayed me game 1, and I flooded game 2, drawing like 8 mountains and 3 goblins.
I also lost to another goblins deck, this one RB, mostly because his Ringleaders did way better.
I think I could beat the RB easily in a better day, and I'm not certain if the BGw guy just plays a lot better and always had everything under control, or got ridiculously lucky finding the exact cards he needed with his SDT.
He was at 2 life and I had my 2-3 goblins in play against a couple of goyfs, + 1-2 goblins in my hand every turn, but he answered every Ringleader with Hymn to Tourach, and every goblin with another blocker or STP, until he drawed 2 Vampires and turned the tide.
Anyway, it was a very nice game, and, so far, I couldn't find any play that would make me win! Wish I could remeber the details, so we could discuss...
Beat BG Rock, Affinity, Reanimator, Bant(?) and Bitterblossom Control.
Never thought Reanimator could be so easy, but the guy was at 9 when he could bring Iona back game 1, and I had 2 Vials game 2, so it wouldn't help anymore.
I didnt really saw a lot of cards in the Bant match, so I don't know if it is actually a Bant. He countered a lot at the beggining, but I just had more goblins. Counterbalance did nothing, because of the ammount of CMC=3, I believe.
Here's the list:
18 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Ringleader
4 Chieftain
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Instigator
4 Piledriver
4 Lackey
4 Vial
3 Gempalm
3 Scourger
SB:
1 Gempalm (needs to be in MD asap!)
2 Tikerer
2 Anarchy
3 Pop (useless)
3 Pyrokinesis
4 Thron (no combo in Brazil, so, useless...)
Sorry for the crappy english, as always.
Can try to remeber more, if there's anyone interested.
@ ScatmanX: You were there, right? Did any better?
On Instigator: He is powerful, but i think results have shown that he has little actual effect on the outcome of games. If you can get an instigator hit in, you would probably have won that game regardless of the instigators effect. Playing him is optional. I like to run 2 in my monored list but run none when i play R/B.
Needs more goyfs.
I'm amazed you're not running Siege-Gang Commander.
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