Honestly, I prefer the Natural Order-build greatly specifically because of all the hatecards. Grim Lavamancer? Meet Progenitus. Jitte? Meet Progenitus. Firespout? Meet Progenitus. Counterbalance/Chalice? Meet Progenitus. Something like Weird Harvest or Chord is going to be relatively useless on a semi-empty board when you cast them with only 1-2 Elves in play and no access to the engine (Weird Harvest will, of course, assemble the engine but if opponent has active Countertop, active Chalice, active Grim or such, that's not going to do you any good). The only thing it doesn't deal with is countermagic, which isn't exactly a problem since when they're Forcing your Glimpses/Survivals/whatever, they're behind on cards and you just beat them down. Being able to combo off properly against Countertop or Zoo or such is hard (which is what I think keeps the deck from truly being on the top), but just resolving Natural Order is easy enough.
I'm of the opinion that Natural Order is just plain better than Weird Harvest or Chord of Calling. No, it does not put together all the basic combo pieces like Harvest and yes, it requires sacrifice unlike Chord, but sacrificing one (tapped) Elf is generally affordable enough and being able to get 4-mana Regal Forces really lowers the threshold for comboing out fast. And when you really need to, it can find Sentinel/Heritage Druid/Symbiote/Visionary/Elvish Archdruid (or pump)/whatever; usually though, I find that role is adequately filled in for with Summoner's Pacts and auxillary search effects.
And Mirror Entity certainly looks to be 100 times the kill Grapeshot or Predator Dragon is; it's got great out-of-combo use, it enables truly infinite combo for when you need to kill that pesky Life-player or whatever, it's an Elf which for all intents and purposes is a great thing and overall, unlike Grapeshot, you aren't gonna go "Shit, Mirror Entity in my opener; guess I might as well take my free mulligan". Also, Mirror Entity means you can easily kill through Stifle, while "Stifle your Grapeshot, Pyroclasm" or a variation there-of can otherwise be quite devastating.
I have to point out that Survival presents another kill. That's the reason I opted for it over the other engine cards; Survival with Anger means you need no other kill condition. Of course, the other reason is that I have Progenitus in the deck which means two normally-dead cards (kill and Proge). Survival converts them into engine cards and can, indeed, act as a combo engine on its own right with Priests of Titania/Archdruids, Anger and Symbiotes (or Nettle Sentinels+Druid); with Masked Admirers, you can just play any number of Elves given the mana production, and win (no Glimpse or NO needed). If the deck also ran Mirror Entity, this would enable for a rather speedy infinite combo with Survival alone, but I didn't find that necessary, though it's certainly something to consider.
Point I'm making is that I don't think the applications of Legacy-legal engine cards have been sufficiently explored to default to the Extended engines; Survival, for example, while being a bit cumbersome acts as combo engine, piece assembler and win condition all in one card.
Oh, and my favorite answer to Jitte is Jittes of your own; in those matches you often find yourself in the aggro-role anyways as they tend to be quite good at keeping you off the combo, so your Jittes have great offensive and defensive merit.
I think this deck is good in a vacuum. It can convert to aggro against hate, and can combo out to race other aggro and other combo. The combo itself, though, requires 3 pieces. If Glimpse eats countermagic and/or a creature eats STP, the combo isn't going anywhere. How does it actually perform against hate?
I think it's the most resilient combo deck to Countermagic and spot removal.Originally Posted by Vacrix
I mean, UW Tempo had all the standard answers, full sets of Swords/Forces/Dazes, and Jitte coming up asap, but it wasn't nearly enough, I won almost every game on Elves (though I was more of a combo-hybrid, the lists in this thread seem more vulnerable to Force on the Glimpse, but it still looks like they could survive). There are so many targets (plus Wirewood is the magnet) and Force doesn't do much because Elves invests approximately nothing in its combo pieces.
Glimpse? Force.
Whatever. That doesn't even slow me down by one turn. Glimpse again? Force.
Ok, your hand is raped, pass the turn and wait to die to infi Sylvan Messengers and Wirewood Symbiotes.
The problem is that 1) It's really slow, so you don't beat Aggro very easily, 2) You die to random hate so much, like Pyrokinesis, Firespout, Engineered Plague, etc. The stuff that normally plagues combo, like Silence, Force, Mindbreak Trap, is not remotely problematic.
Ok few things to say. First why isn't it in etablished decks section ? This deck deserves at least to be there.
Then I recommend to people that have doubts about the deck to really test. First exemple : the fow. You are all afraid of fow on glimpse. Hey dudes, that's exactly what we want 50% of the time. In fact I often try to glimpse, perfectly knowing that I cannot combo this turn, in order to get it fowed to play other threats. Wirewood symbiote is very very good. It is probably the best card of the pack.
Against CB : I also don't think that you tested really much, because CB is not that problematic (I mean, for a combo deck). Indeed, it is quite slow : I mean if they are lucky they get top turn 1, CB turn 2. That's fine. That let you at least 3 elves on the board. With hivemaster this will be game. CB means that they need to say open in order to counter us. That's perfect ! Because we are combo but we are also aggro. CB is not as much frightening when we play elfball than when we play ANT.
I quite agree with you Forbiddian, excepted on the last part. Aggro is a bye. Really. I mean, don't be stupid and don't overextend against gob or zoo, but slow him down. You can easily go into combo against these decks.
Oh, and the deck is very quick. I mean, it sometimes kills on turn 2, and often turn 3 when there are no counters in the opponent's hand...
Forgive my bad English...
Quoted for emphasis. The number of viable (elven) cards and engines in green means that the deck can be built to abuse a number of different tactics whilst retaining the same general strategy (draw your library courtesy of small green dudes). This is also a problem since determing what constitutes the "best" direction for the deck probably hinges as much on knowledge of the local beta as personal preferences.
For an instance I usually run a monogreen list without survival/NO and no Nettle Sentinels, instead relying on PoT and Archdruid with untappers for mana generation supported by Heritage Druid. Concordant Crossroads and Joraga Warcaller act as general win conditions. The benefit of this approach is that each piece is much less reliant on the engine in order to perform (Sentinel really needs both Druid and Glimpse in order to actually anything more productive than being a measly 2/2), and since it typically generates a -lot- more mana in bursts it suddenly makes both Warcaller and Messenger must-answers in themselves. It also opens up for the extremely powerful alternative CA-engine of Wirewood Symbiote/Sylvan Messener paired with mana elves which along with the 8 lord effects reduces reliance on glimpse to nil. My previously posted list for reference:
Elf Combo
13 Forest
3 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Quirion Ranger
3 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Sylvan Messenger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Joraga Warcaller
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Concordant Crossroads
2 Summoner's Pact
Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Gaea's Herald
1 Gilt-Leaf Archdruid
1 Reverent Silence
@Eldariel:
yeah, I agree that NO/prog is strong and so is NO/regal, and I admit I haven't tested it much. However, since NO/prog becoming more and more popular in green decks (like BANT for example), I fear the decks who can afford it might sideboard a few cards against it, making it weaker. However this hasn't really happened yet, and the combo still has a strong prescence.
survival does seem intriguing as an engine card, and definitely stands on its own merits. It gives you a nice tool against disruption and all sorts of sneaky situations which would be impossible to recover from otherwise. On the other hand, I don't think it really combos as fast as chord and weird harvest can. Chord can put entity or something like magus of the moon in play for auto-win, and weird harvest can win on turn 3 if you have enough mana available. But survival does look like a stronger card in non-combo mathcups.
@ mirror entity vs grapeshot:
I'll admit mirror entity is strong, but I don't think it really replaces a storm kill in any way. If anything, if I played mirror entity I would probably play both it and a kill card.
The whole point of the kill card is to win the SAME turn you combo off, thus avoiding sweepers and the off chance that your opponent can kill you before you swing (burn you out, combo off himself, etc.) If there is a way to do this with mirror entity, then please point it out to me because I don't see it.
If you do omit a same-turn kill card, you slow down your combo goldfish by 1 whole turn, and probably your average goldfish by 0.5-0.8 turns or so. This is a lot of sacrifice for 1 extra card slot to play with. Granted if you have something like grapeshot in your oppening hand, its usually useless, however this will happen 10-15% of the time if you don't mulligan, nowhere near enough to compensate for the huge goldfish boost you get.
The main problem I see with not having at lest 1 kill card is that you are too slow to compete with other combo decks.
@ frenchy-man:
"Ok few things to say. First why isn't it in etablished decks section ? This deck deserves at least to be there."
yeah I agree :D
Here is my list.
Elf Combo
4 Nettle Sentinal
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Llanowar Elf
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 ESG
3 Birchlore Ranger
2 Quirion Ranger
1 Eternal Witness
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Grapeshot/Brainfreeze/Storm Card
13 Forest
This deck is SUPER consistant. I playtested against a few decks already, and got pretty into most of those games. The main decks I tested against were Ugw Counterbalance and Goblins.
It is like my friend, Vaughn, said after the 4th game we were testing(he was playing Counterbalance/Top)
"You can't beat this deck. It can switch roles so easily. I am so focused on disrupting the combo and then I have a bunch of elves turning sideways. When I try and stop the onslaught, you find something dumb like double glimpse, GG."
The reason this deck is so consistant is that it can do just that. Most decks can't deal with it.
Against Ugw Thresh, I went 8 wins 2 losses. My losses were from early counterbalance and top, etc.
Against goblins, I went 5 and 0. I was surprised. This deck is just faster. There was one point where my opponent could have tutored for Sharpshooter and mowed my team ftw, but he went for piledriver. I don't know why. But I won because I had Glimpse in hand.
Some card choices.
Elvish Archdruid - he's better than Priest by far. The ability to just drop a few of him and smash skull is pretty good. Also, he is hard to counter.
4 Visionary- Draw. This deck has a good draw engine when Symbiote + Visionary is online.
Regal Force- Many people have cut this, why? This guy is BOSS. He can't really be stopped by counterbalance. He is hard to Pyroclasm away. lol. and he is a 5/5 that turns sideways. He draws A BUNCH of cards.
Eternal Witness- For insurance against counters. Its great to be able to chain some elves together and then Grapeshot/Freeze them, witness, and do it again.
Elvish Spirit Guide- Allows for faster wins, pays for Spell Pierce and Daze, is a creature, can be tutored for.
My sideboard is as follows:
SIDEBOARD:
3 Imperious Perfect
4 Krosan Grip
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Relic of Prog
3 xxx
The Imperious Perfects come in against mostly red control decks (Canadian Thresh) it is hard for control to beat this guy once he is in play. Not to mention it is hard to Pyroclasm multiple lords away.
Grips come in for obv reasons.
Macabre/Relic come in against reanimator and Ichorid.
And there are three open spots.
Thanks, any suggestions?
I can go ahead and tell you how the testing games have gone in more detail if you would like. Though most is from Memory.
@magicplaya10: maybe its something obvious and I'm too tired to think of it, but what's 3 ESG? :P
Yeah, archdruid is probably a strong card. My version which runs 3 titania might be better with the substitution, especially considering that archdruid often comes out on turn 2 anyways (llanowar/fyndhorn turn 1).
Mirror Entity will eventually make an arbitrary amount of mana by having Symbiote bounce itself and by extension make all your creatures arbitrarily large as well as being a pretty decent lord on its otherwise. And decks that play enough creatures to block whatever you had in play at that upkeep shouldn't be able to burn you out anyhow. Still, why insisting on an off color "kill" card when both Concordant Crossroads and Survival/Anger can make your mana engine win for you whilst not being generally awkward prior to that point?
Well I know the basic workings of the mirror entity combo, except one thing I noticed just now: the ability to untap an arbitrary amount of creatures.
Just to make sure I understood your question, you mean "why insist on grapeshot/mirror, when both crossroads/mirror and survival/anger/mirror can work less akwardly?", right?
Well since you can untap everything (which I hadn't considered), then I agree with you that either of those would be superior to what I proposed: grapeshot/mirror. It can still fail ofc, but the scenarios where it would are just as unlikely as those where a storm card would fail so that they can be ignored.
However, I would argue that crossroads and anger are not as "less akward" than grapeshot as one might think. Crossroads often won't be that useful in this deck (the main play consists of tapping most of your creatures all the time), and anger is an empty card until you get survival, and even then its probably not doing much until you combo off. Of course there are specific scenarios where either might come in handy without comboing, but I think they are too rare to carry any weight.
If you do play mirror, then I think you definitely should have survival/anger or at least 1 crossroads to speed up your goldfish. However, now that you are using 2 cards for a same-turn kill condition (crossroads/mirror or anger/mirror), you have to make sure that one of them (mirror) is useful enough to make this choice better than a 1 card kill condition. Relying solely on birchlore ranger is obviously mediocre at best, so you probably want either some nonbasic lands (splash white) or chord of calling to play your mirror.
If you play nonbasic lands, you clash with legacy's nonbasic landhate, but I think this deck can probably handle it fairly well since it can run on low lands. And if you play chords of calling, then you're losing out on the benifits of stronger tutors, but you do have the option of using other off color creatures maindeck or postboard (magnus of the moon for example).
Overall what I think it boils down to is that mirror builds are stronger against slower decks and 1 kill card builds are better against faster decks.
Well, it did have 4 and only 3 summoners pact, but I decided that pact was great. Also I run it because sometimes dropping two dudes on turn 1 or 2 is great. It really accelerates the deck. Also, it allows you to play around daze. =P
ESG has been great to me. I run three also because I have such a low land count. I really do like the 3 ESG 13 forest configuration. You only really need 1 land to accelerate. With 7 one mana producers it isn't hard. I have actually went off by Dropping two Llanowars into play on turn one, no lands, and then turn 2 I drew glimpse and had pact and double sentinal. I ended up pulling that one out on turn 3 without any lands.
Not saying that will happen. But ESG is great acceleration, good against cards such as daze and spell pierce. Also, he is a dude that untaps Sentinals.
@Archdruid, yea it is great. The +1/+1 makes it amazing. I have found archdruid against sharpshooter and was able to win. Double archdruid is nuts. I love this card. If all else fails, he produces a but load of mana, which can help go off or drop your hand.
@Mirror Entity/Grapshot, I just like winning with the storm mechanic. It could be Grapeshot or Brainfreeze or even Tendrils. It just seems harder to disrupt. And, in case they do disrupt it, you have a hoard of Elves ready to turn sideways. In the end, I just enjoy playing a bunch of guys and then killing them with storm. But thats just me.
Thanks, thoughts?
I really enjoy the deck. Keep up the good work.
I 4-0'd a daily online with this today:
4 Misty Rainforest
12 Forest
4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Heritage Druid
2 Joraga Warcaller
3 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Priest of Titania
1 Elvish Harbinger
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Sylvan Messenger
1 Banefire
2 Staff of Domination
1 Concordant Crossroads
4 Glimpse of Nature
SB:
1 Bond of Agony
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Krosan Grip
3 Imperious Perfect
2 Ground Seal
1 Viridian Zealot
Obviously it's a different route than most of the previous decks in the thread with the same basic ideas. I got the base list off Deckcheck. I was told that reanimator was popular so I packed the 6 cards for it, the Gound Seals could easily change to something else in the future. Also, the Harbinger in the main should be changed to a Viridian Zealot for added utility game 1.
I played against Zoo, Imperial Painter, Enchantress, and Bant.
Concordant Crossroads is completely unfair with 8 priest effects. The deck works very well and the win conditions are very hard to beat. I was especially impressed with Bond of Agony against Enchantress. I had Mirror Entities originally but decided I liked Warcaller more because of the amount of mana I was generating and the permanence of his effect, also the option of casting him as another 1-drop elf anytime in the game was a noticable bonus.
Here's a short run down of my games:
Round 1: Zoo
G1: I keep Forest, Llanowar, Birchlore, Warcaller, Archdruid, Staff, Priest on the draw.
He opens on Nacatl into Lavamancer missing his second land drop.
I open on Llanowar into Archdruid.
He bolts my Bolts my Archdruid and Lavamancers my Llanowar.
I play 2x Birchlore and Priest.
He plays Tarmogoyf missing his 3rd land and screwed on white.
I play Fyndhorn and Warcaller kicked 3 times.
He plays Kird Ape.
I play Staff and he concedes.
G2: I keep a sketchy hand of 2x Glimpse, Staff, Llanowar, Archdruid, 2x Forest.
He kills my Archdruid and plays a Lavamancer and I can't recover fast enough.
G3: I keep Misty Rainforest, Forest, Fyndhorn, Nettle, Glimpse, Staff, Messenger on the play.
He kills my first 5 creatures but only has a 1/1 Kird Ape for pressure. Two Paths got me up to 4 mana.
He taps out to kill my Messenger and drop a Goyf while my hand is: Staff, Llanowar, Nettle, Fyndhorn, Perfect, Glimpse.
I draw Priest and play Glimpse into Nettle drawing Heritage Druid. My next 3 draws are Fyndhorn, Glimpse, Forest. I get double Glimpse going and draw into a second Nettle. He concedes before I kill him.
Round 2: Imperial Painter
G1: I mull into Misty Rainforest, Nettle, Warcaller, Archdruid, Messenger, Crossroads on the draw.
I play Crossroads first sicne he opens on Mountain and I guess I thought it was important to not have it Dazed.
He plays turn 2 Blood Moon, which is basically a time walk for me.
I eventually draw lands while he is screwed on blue with just a Painter's Servant in play.
I land a Messenger and attack with some hasty guys.
G2: I keep 2x Forest, Llanowar, 2x Birchlore, Heritage, Glimpse on the draw.
He kills all my guys after I Glimpse for a few cards. We end up in a draw go situation with him having recurring EExplosives and me with Staff and 5 mana so I'm drawing 2 a turn. I eventually get him to tap low to kill 3 of my guys while my hand is stacked.
I start going off on my turn and he doesn't have removal or a counter.
Round 3: Enchantress
G1: I keep Misty, 2x Forest, Priest, Messenger, Fyndhorn, Symbiote on the draw.
He lands Solitary Confinement before I can kill him. The list I was playing was running Elvish Harbinger over Zealot in the main so I had no outs.
G2: I keep Misty Rainforest, 2x Glimpse, Fyndhorn, Archdruid, Symbiote, Priest on the play.
I open on Fyndhorn into Priest while he has nothing relevant. Turn 3 I draw Heritage Druid and get double Glimpse going. I win with Bond of Agony.
G3: I keep 2x Forest, Nettle, Fyndhorn, Staff, Grip, Glimpse on the draw.
He plays Sprawl into Words of War, I play Fyndhorn into KGrip.
He plays Presence, I play Glimpse, Nettle, Birchlore, Fyndhorn, Priest and pass with Staff, KGrip and 2 Lands in hand hoping he doesn't have removal. He just plays Moat and Sterling Grove so I go off with Staff the next turn.
Round 4: Bant
G1: I mull into Forest, Birchlore, Heritage, Archdruid, Staff, Glimpse on the draw.
I draw a Priest and a Forest. He plays a Goyf.
I Glimpse, he Forces, so I just drop Heritage, Archdruid, and Staff since he would have played Daze any number of times before this turn.
He plays EExplosives on 1 and busts it.
I draw and play Warcaller as a 1/1 and Messenger drawing Harbinger and Nettle. I go off with Staff/Archdruid.
G2: I keep 3x Archdruid, Llanowar, Perfect, Crossroads, Forest on the draw.
He plays a land, I draw and play Nettle Sentinel to see if he wants to Daze my first play.
He plays Goyf, I draw a Forest and play Llanowar.
He plays Knight of the Reliquary. I draw Priest and play Crossroads, Priest, 3x Archdruid, Perfect. I attack with Nettle and he blocks with Knight, activates and plays Swords on Perfect. I make a dude, but his Knight is a 6/6 now so my Nettle dies as only a 5/5.
He misses a land drop and plays a second Knight and activates to have Tundra open. I draw Messenger and play it, he Stifles the trigger but doesn't have enough blockers for my army of 4/4's.
Last edited by drawer; 04-19-2010 at 04:40 PM. Reason: spelling
Against CB and Chalice you simply bring in Vexing Shusher (or draw it, or Pact for it, etc). While yes it requires +1 mana for each spell, but it allows you to cast all your dudes. The only thing to watch out for is an EE, Deed, or Firespout the following turn. That very situation happened to me and I lost to my own Pact payment. But it's very easy to beat an active CB.
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Grats on the finish. How was Warcaller for you?
Why no summoner's pacts? It makes the deck go so much faster. But I guess that my version is more of a storm combo version, and yours seems super aggro. Pact just seems more versitile than Sylvan Messengers.
How was Concordant Crossroads?
Also, Zealot is great for getting out of dumb sticky situations, especially with Summoner's Pact, you can just tutor for it.
@ Rukcus, wouldn't it be easier to run Krosan Grip instead of Shusher? Grip takes care of Counterbalance + Top and Chalice and Trinisphere and Explosives, etc.
Since it might be relevant to the thread at question, here's a quick report I already posted in an earlier thread on Elf Combo ("post-Worldwake") with a bit older list:
Small report from Magic-League Masters 28.2.2010 [1st]
Elf Combo Survival - A One-Day Brew (thrown together the night before)
// Lands
5 [U] Forest
4 [A] Taiga
4 [GP] Stomping Ground
1 [LG] Pendelhaven
// Creatures
3 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
2 [M10] Elvish Archdruid
2 [ON] Birchlore Rangers
1 [EVE] Regal Force
4 [A] Llanowar Elves
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
1 [10E] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [JU] Anger
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
3 [M10] Elvish Visionary
3 [US] Priest of Titania
1 [10E] Elvish Champion
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [CFX] Progenitus
1 [DS] Viridian Zealot
2 [SC] Wirewood Symbiote
// Spells
2 [FUT] Summoner's Pact
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
3 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
3 [VI] Natural Order
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M10] Elvish Archdruid
SB: 2 [10E] Elvish Champion
SB: 1 [SC] Wirewood Symbiote
SB: 1 [VI] Natural Order
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 4 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 [PT] Fire Imp
SB: 1 [MR] Viridian Shaman
SB: 1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
My match-ups in order:
Round 1: Bye
Round 2: Ironicus with BW Pox.
G1 I get Thoughtseized for my only other creature after turn 1 ESG > Priest, blanking the Glimpse in my hand. I proceed to draw nothing of relevance, he plays Smallpox and we're done.
G2 I instead open with two creatures. He does nothing of relevance, I land Elvish Archdruid and begin the beats. He plays Tabernacle, but Druid conveniently blanks that, I drop Survival and second Druid takes it home.
G3 I again open with two creatures; he doesn't have immediate disruption. He Seizes Natural Order while I rip Archdruid, do some Elf shenanigans to drop it and swing. He has nothing relevant, I Druid some crap into play, replay a Visionary, swing and put him a turn from death. A meek Ghostly Prison is all she wrote.
2-0 (2-1 games)
Round 3: DH with ANT.
G1 he's one turn too fast for me.
G2 I begin to combo on turn 3 and run into Chant, but beat him with multiple Druids anyways. He tries to go off next turn and runs into my 3 Mindbreak Traps.
G3 he never really does much what with 3 Chants and few Rituals in hand, while I pummel him with Survival.
3-0 (4-2 games)
Round 4: Foxy with Zoo.
G1 he manages to keep me off the board with Grim Lavamancers, Paths and burn while beating with Qasali, Goyf and Nacatl. Somewhat helped by me flooding with 7 lands (half of my entire deck's lands!) in play by the end.
G2 I Glimpse for some cards, drop Elvish Archdruid around turn 3 (with some aid from two Pathed Symbiotes providing mana), upgrade into Progenitus, chump with Elves and win.
G3 is more of the same, except the Natural Order happens already on turn 3.
4-0 (6-3 games)
Round 5: meagel with ANT
G1 he wins turn 2 when I missed only Glimpse from my own turn 2 win. I look at the top card; there it is.
G2 I lay some Elves and he Duresses me, but is forced to take Glimpse to stop me from winning next turn leaving Mindbreak Trap in hand. I lay some Elves and beat, he's forced to go off but can't with Trap and I take it.
G3 he lays two Petals and land to my Pendelhaven > Dude; I've got turn 2 combo with Mindbreak Trap in hand, but he only plays Ritual > Ad Nauseam next turn and my Trap is powerless to stop him.
4-1 (7-5 games)
Round 6: Tird_Ape with UW Fish
G1 I drop few Elves, he plays Serra Avenger into Standstill which I immediately break, using Symbiote and tons of mana elves to play and replay Elvish Visionary. He plays second Standstill which I again break drawing some cards of my own, but failing to find anything but lands. I do land Priest of Titania and Elvish Archdruid giving me tons of mana, followed by Summoning Pact to get the second Symbiote, start drawing some more cards and get some lords in play to swing. His board is composed of Serra Avenger, 2 Grunts, Mutavault, Factory and Silver Knight. He tries to kill me with my own Elvish Champion's effect, but Symbiote to the rescue and my team takes G1, with help from hardcast Anger and Squee as Survival never showed up (literally went through over 30 cards there; no, no NO or Glimpse either).
G2 he keeps a 2-card hand, but Sprites my two plays after the initial Nettle Sentinel. However, Sentinel is fine on beatdown and Pendelhaven doesn't hurt either. He's stuck on two mana and I play stuff. I get some other things to resolve like Heritage Druid and Elvish Visionary, and he's finally forced to trade his Mutavault and Sprites for crap. This is his cue to draw a Mishra's. I hardcast Anger and swing him to 3, and his Tundra next turn is way too late. Totally dysfunctional game on both sides with neither really doing much, but 1-drops are better at doing nothing than 2-drops.
5-1 (9-5)
Round 7: ID
5-1-1 (9-5) going into Top 8.
Quarterfinals: Capoeira with Eva Green
G1 he Thoughtseizes me for a Glimpse, I drop Llany, he double rits into Gatekeeper+Tarmogoyf. I drop a second Elf, he swings, I drop Nettle Sentinel and it takes one for greater good, taking out Keeper. He Seizes again, taking Regal Force from my hand. At this point I'm just playing into Topdeck Natural Order or Survival with double ESG+Anger in hand and Land+Llany in play. Natural Order it is and my Progenitus takes it in two swings with Wirewood Symbiote joining in to pre-empt any future Gatekeepers.
G2 he mulligans to 6 but doesn't find Plague. He seizes me taking Glimpse over Natural Order. Then I play some mana elves (Druid/Sentinel/Llany I think) while he drops Nantuko Shade, I build up board and he Hymns trying to hit Natural Order but getting Druid and Visionary instead. Natural Order resolves and he scoops 'em up as he can't exactly gatekeeper all the Elves away and Sentinel survives a Plague, even.
6-1-1 (11-5)
Semifinals: Malakai with Countertop
G1 he Islands, I Symbiote, he plays Top, I drop Llany+Priest, he StPs Priest which jumps to my hand. Then he drops Goyf, I drop Visionary and use Symbiote to gain mana to Priest again. He Trinkets for EE, drops it at 1 and swings with Goyf. I drop Survival, get Anger into the grave before dropping Elvish Archdruid and Pacting for second Symbiote, and then playing two Visionaries twice for cards. Hit only lands tho. After that, Visionaries swing, one trades with Trinket while other hits.
Opp pops EE for 1 in resp to Top-activation to get rid of it (return Llany and Visionary to hand), plays his second Top and cheats a bit. I pay Pact, redrop Llany and Sentinel, play second Archdruid (pitching Visionary), swing and he scoops it up in face of the Elf horde.
G2 he has Top > Counterbalance against my turn 1 Sentinel/Druid into turn 2 Viridian Zealot (swung before thinking it'd be countered, it wasn't but it sat around). Moot point as opp drops second Counterbalance, flips StP on top to counter Glimpse and dies to Natural Order.
7-1-1 (13-5)
Finals: Alakai with UR Dreadstill
G1 he has turn 1 Top turn 2 Balance on the play, blind-hits my Priest and uses Top to stop my Glimpses. I Witness Priest back and resolve it, but he drops Trinket for Dread, Dread+Stifle and as my deck continues to provide me with no solution, I succumb two turns later.
G2 I have Vexing Shusher + Llany and he drops Standstill with a Mishran in play. We play draw-go for a while with my hand being relatively light on gas so I welcome this chance to restock. I get to discard my Progenitus back in the library and he ends up breaking his own Still with Bolt on my Shusher. He Trinkets for Dread and passes. On my turn, I combo off, meet no real resistance, get Survival in play and it's G3.
G3...well, sufficient to say, we trade beats (Symbiote for Factory) under Standstill as I'm building up on gas again, I break it at 6 with Druid+Sentinel, having another Sentinel, a Natural Order, a Shaman, a Survival and Druid in hand. At this point, he uses his only open mana to fetch responding to my first Sentinel. Then he disconnects and we get a very anti-climatic end to a tight series. He most likely would've forced me to return Druid to my hand, forcing me to settle for Survival for this turn; might get countered. Either way, he prolly either sweeps the board or drops Dread. Either way, I'm looking great next turn with still some mana elves and lots of lands along with NO and possible Survival online. But disconnect means I'll never find out.
8-1-1 (14-5)
Surprisingly solid finish; I was expecting to Top 8, but not win. I'll definitely want to reconsider anti-combo SB options; Null Rod came up as did Gaddock Teeg and I most certainly want few more slots for that MU as it's quite winnable (due to our clock), but still unfavorable, especially with Duresses acting as disruption too. It's also a MU where you can't really outplay the opponent meaning it just comes down to who has the better draw/deck for the match-up.
Congrats on your finish as well. I really like the Survival/NO build you got going. Seems interesting and obviously performs well. Grats again!
Counterbalance can still counter Krosan Grip. My Elves board looks like:
2 Krosan Grip
3 Naturalize
1 Vexing Shusher (1 Main)
3 Elvish Champion
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Relix of Progenitus
West side
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Warcaller was very good. He's anti-Firespout, and he also makes your beatdown plan happen very quickly.
I'm not playing Pact mostly because they cost more than I wanted to spend on the deck, and they weren't in the original list I picked out. I think Pact is good, but sometimes Messenger is as good or better. I don't like that you basically have to win the turn you play Pact because it's fairly easy for your opponent to take advantage of the upkeep trigger since the deck is so land light. I'm also not playing Regal Force so Pact, although good, would usually just find another elf, where Messenger usually finds 2-3, and mana cost isn't much of an issue.
Crossroads was very good, it's insane with 8 Priest effects and I'm considering running a second Crossroads in the deck, not sure what I'd cut though.
Then again Pact into Viridian Zealot is pretty much the only out to certain nasties such as CotV/Moat/whathaveyou, and playing around with a virtual 5 Messengers is a good way to fight through removal (along with Symbiote). No Visionary? I'd consider it an automatic 4-of, probably instead of Birchlore Rangers; half a mana returned per elf played is pretty horrible in comparison to everything else in the deck.
Otherwise if you want to cut things I'd start with Staff and Banefire. Staff is cute and all but 4 elves and a unsick priest effect on the table is already a winning enough board position not to clog the maindeck with untutorable artifacts; and Banefire.. well, lets just say if you can't win with some 20-odd untapped hasted 20+ power elves on the table with Zealot backup it probably wouldn't help you otherwise.
Any particular reason you play fetchlands btw? Opening yourself up to Stifle and Submerge shenanigans is just unneedlessly mucking up the tempo matchup, and those lifepoints is far more significant in the aggro mu than the minute amount of thinning it provides.
@Eldariel: Still think that list is mighty interesting, albeit slightly bloated what with 3 different engines in the same deck and all. I did some testing with Survival but swapped back pretty soon because it didn't really fit the shell/playstyle I was using otherwise, and I felt that without the kind of commitment the card generally gets otherwise all I could really use it for was for haste, mana and card advantage which is already plenty available without committing the manabase and the 6+ Survival, Squee, Anger slots. Have you made any further changes to the list? If so I'd love to see it if I may.
Most of the card choices in my list came from the original list. I was surprised that there was no Visionary but I went with it and haven't felt the need to include them yet. Staff is absolutely staying in the deck, a majority of my games were won with it, it's versatile and if you cut Staff you might as well cut the Priests as well. Birchlore is the only way to cast Banefire/Bond of Agony.
Fetchlands were just in the original list, I'm not sure if they're needed, but I think in this deck more than most others the thinning aspect does become relevant because you're drawing so many cards.
4 Elves and an unsick Priest is definitely not a winning board position.
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