If I see to much dredge, before the tourney I go 'old school' and put in Stonecloakers.Originally Posted by Penguinizer
I know/have seen exactly one person playing dredge at the tournaments i've been at so I'm not exactly worried. The tutor toolbox has answers, but I'll stick with a cheaper SB until then. The player is my friend anyways so I might just scoop it and go for lunch.
Well, call it whatever you want, I'm not an english native speaker so I'll take your word for it, but it doesn't change the point of my argument. Sure storm can get around chant or canonist (you could also mention the DD pile with helm + 2 tops for infinite storm), but come on, those are obviously the exception, not the rule. Saying that canonist isn't better than true believer against storm because none of them are 100% reliable is a fallacious argument.
That's generally true against non-blue decks. As always, the key is to catch your opponent off-gard by keeping your SB plan secret and by having a diversified hate if possible (or if you don't by making him believe that you do!).
Er, what's the logic here exactly? You can play chant on turn 1 (which is often crucial), and it forces you to keep 2 mana open instead of 1 which slows down your board development and consequently the pressure you can apply on your opponent (crucial in this MU).
My storm combo hate atm is this :
4 chant
3 e.tutor
1 canonist
1 aura of silence (obviously subpar but useful in other MUs)
By the way, the e.tutor SB is extremely strong against ichorid, because you can just add 1 wheel (the worst card for ichorid after leyline) and 1 relic and you have a virtual 5 cards hate package which can deal with different situations depending on game state.
I find that Silence/Chant have a hard time stopping cards already in play. I have noticed they like to put out a card or two if they fear Silence/Chant, and if you do stop them for a turn, they still have the cards in hand waiting for he next round. Abeyance lets you interupt them with appropriate timing to ruin the count, make them waste cards, and possibly over extend their resources when timed right.
What?
The question is: What does Abeyance do that Chant/Silence doesn't?
Draw a card ftw?
It stops top activations, not that its that significant.
I'd much rather play Chant than Abeyance, especially if your meta has faster combo like Belcher.
IMO there really aren't any particularly strong reasons to play Abeyance anymore. In the past, folks were using it over Chant because of price. But since Silence was printed, I just can't see that being an issue. Drop the Abeyances, man. Keeping two mana open in Legacy is a huge investment when you need to be landing threats and dealing damage.
This has essentially been my experience as well. Against the matchups in which Enlightened Tutor and its targets come in, you don't even care about the card disadvantage. The only downside to this at all is that you don't get the appropriate hate card until the following turn if you topdeck a tutor.
You really have to use the tutor board.
@Penguinizer, BFT makes the Dredge matchup a lot better. Between that and Jotun Grunt, you have some decent hate in the main.
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My combo hate is:
3x MD Runed Halo
and from the SB:
3x Enlightened Tutor for the toolbox
1-2x Ethersworn Canonist
3x True Believer
3-4x Silence
MD Runed Halo seems a bit unorthodox, what did you cut for it?
1 Mother, I forgot what else I cut. I've gotten so used to it. I've found that it's useful for several matchups. Resolving it stop one of the opponents big beatsticks is very handy. Not having to worry about a Goyf or Progenitus if you resolution is nice. It's also great counterbait. Here's my current list.
Lands
3 [LG] Karakas
11 [RAV] Plains (3)
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
Creatures
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
3 [TSP] Mangara of Corondor
3 [FNM] Mother of Runes
4 [EVE] Flickerwisp
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [LRW] Goldmeadow Harrier
Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
4 [OV] Swords to Plowshares
3 [SHM] Runed Halo
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
Sideboard
SB: 1 [U] Meekstone
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 3 [M10] Silence
SB: 3 [ON] True Believer
lolz, Meekstone + Goldmeadow looks like greatness!!!
I like the idea of MD Runed Halo. Its great in so many matches. Which matches do you board it out for though, if at all (seems weak against reanimator)?
I find it lets us do a few things against re-animator. For one, it lets us stop one of their targets beforehand, forcng them to fetch one that benefits us more. Naming inkwell leviathan when you have a harrier in hand/play with a vial might make them get something we can just stop with the harrier. It's also good counterbait.
What I would side ot out against is enchantress builds that don't run Words of War. Tye other builds run Sigil of the Empty Throne. Runed Halo doesn't stop the tokens. I'm also iffy on using it against Dredge. I can't think of other matchup where it might not be useful off the top of my head.
Last edited by Penguinizer; 04-22-2010 at 05:15 AM.
Silence, Canonist, and Aura of Silence slow them down (hopefully) long enough to start beating down with beaters/equipments.
O-Ring is sometimes good, as is Wasteland. Weathered Wayfarer is nice here for that aspect, but its not reliable that they'll play many nonbasics.
Tempest of Light would be good, if it wasn't so limited at what it does (destroy Enchantress, but that's about it)
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Except you still do have to worry about it. Halo doesn't make the named card disappear, it stops its offensive role. D&T being an aggro-control / midrange deck, that can be quite problematic, especially against decks which have a superior late game than us (control comes to mind). That being said, I haven't tested the deck with 8 flyers + harrier so it might not be that much of an issue.
That's true. While it's still a problem, Mother of Runes also lets us bypass the goyf. It's like duct taping something shut. It's a temporary fix that lets us get some breathing space until we get an answer.
I am currently helping a friend out build a deck out. He loves white weenie so much. Is it okay if I use your list as a reference Penguinizer?
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
No, not at all. Copying lists from forums is extremely frowned upon and goes against the purpose of this entire forum.
By which he means go right ahead
As a note. If your meta has a lot of zoo, gobbos or burn, the Harriers might be better replaced with Burrenton Forge Tenders.
i'm actually building a D&T as well and i think runed halo, even if it seems quite strange as cardchoice for maindeck might have some value in the future, or better said, this card should get more attention^^
in my list there will be 2 copies of runed halo, however i did only cut 1 land, and i'm running 61 cards (its a habit of mine, and i will never change this^^), i cut the land because there are not many decks which play wasteland in my meta, so i think i'll be fine with just 21 lands
i could just go with the same argumentation above... combo hate maindeck, usefull in allmost every matchup, good counterbait,.......
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