I wasn't saying that either should be played, just that imho stronghold was better.Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I like chalice or mindbreak trap more than thorn. ANT/Belcher is likely to go off t1/t2 and I'd like to do whatever I can to slow them down as much as possible. If they have to spend their tutors to get bounce or discard, it gives me that much more time to beat them down.
IMO mindbreak trap is really bad. The problem is that is reactive, you have to wait in order to disrupt your oponent. In the meantime, they can duress you or simply play chant first. Against belcher is much better, but AnT can always play around it.
Thorn is very effective when you are on the play, but in game 3 AnT and Belcher will surely play duress or go off in turn two.
For me, the solutions have always been chalice and duress/thoughtseize/inquisition. Sure, chalice can be bounced and is very selective, but playing it in turn 1 for zero or turn 2 for 1 buys you a lot of time. Duress efects are nice, but it's a one card trade that sometimes don't give you enough time.
Anyways, i still struggle to put them in the side, cause that means usually taking out other usefull and needed cards.
my current sideboard without storm hate:
3 Pyrokinesis (in the mirror is the card that gives you the game)
4 faerie macabre (or leylines)
3 perish (i'm not so sure about them, but zoo is a great excuse)
3 shattering spree (really really usefull and needed against all that jitte-u/w tempo shit)
2 boartusk liege (strictly a metagame answer, too much plagues)
Storm combo and enchantements are the shit that ruins the day, as always, but you can run anarchy and chalices if you want.
My oppinion about Mindbreak Trap is quite the same. I used to play Duress/Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize too, but I realized that this 1:1 trade sucks.
Here is my sideboard (I run RB). I have worked on it a long time and now I'm quite satisfied:
2 Anarchy
2 Perish
4 Ley-Line of The Void
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Red Elemental Blast
Against Bant: 2 Anarchy, 2 Perish
Against Combo: 4 Pillar, 3 REB
Against Dredge: 4 Ley-Line
Against Reanimator: 4 Ley-Line, (3 REB, depending on list)
Against Loam: 4 Ley-Line, 2 Perish
Against Enchantress: 4 Pillar, 2 Anarchy
Against CounterTop: 2 Perish, 3 REB
Against Merfolk: 3 REB
Against U/W Tempo: 3 REB, 2 Anarchy
Against Zoo: 2 Perish, (2 Anarchy, depending on list)
This sideboard offers reliable answers on the most common colors/decks: W, U, G
Plus it has 4 slots each with combo- and graveyard hate.
I would play Chalice instead of Pillar if I wasnt running REB (which is the most flexible card in SB).
Shattering Spree looks nice but it isn't. Jitte is not the card we face too often. Actually its only in decks with many white creatures. Anarchy rips the carriers for Jitte away AND can be used against Enchantress (the real killers are white: Moat, Confinement, Sigil+Angel-Token).
I think you're right about shattering spree, anarchy seems way better because against enchantress you can sweep every annoying enchantment, except maybe elephant grass. Against stax is also nuts, killing that fcking magus and prisons.
The thing i don't understand is why running pillar over chalice, arguing it with the inclusion of REB. Yeah, setting chalice for one and drawing REB against combo sucks but you can play it for zero, shutting their diamonds, moxes and lotus while holding a REB to counter their bounce spell. I havent tested chalice + REB, but seems solid to me, at least better than any other options.
I've been testing and testing and I think I finally got the deck where I want it ....let me know what you think.
1Gempalm Incinerator
2Goblin Chieftain
4Goblin Lackey
4Goblin Matron
4Goblin Piledriver
4Goblin Ringleader
4Goblin Warchief
2Siege-Gang Commander
1Stingscourger
2Warren Instigator
3Lightning Bolt
3Warren Weirding
4Aether Vial
4Auntie's Hovel
2Badlands
2Bloodstained Mire
5Mountain
3Rishadan Port
2Scalding Tarn
4Wasteland
2Faerie Macabre
4Leyline of the Void
3Pyrokinesis
3Mindbreak Trap
3Chalice of the Void
My zoo and reanimator MU's have been 50-50 and my combo MU's been fairly successful . My friend made a good point to me today that my whole board was free which I thought was kind of amusing. I personally feel that graveyard hate is so good in legacy right now because it is affective against so many decks in any meta (lands, reanimator, dredge, aggro loam, survival).
Last edited by danielcrocker; 05-20-2010 at 11:25 PM. Reason: more info
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
Looks like you are missing 2 cards in that list i count 58, you only have 20 lands, not sure if thats right, I think 22 is the perfect number and thats what people have had success with. I'd like to see someone make a case for goblin chieftain still, I don't think hes needed. I'd cut them for another scg and another gempalm.
I really like the 2 chieftan because its helps against engineered plauge and I hate boartusk liege. It also helps in the zoo matchup especially when you catch them off guard with a vial at 3. I have had games as well where it was a great finisher just for the facts that is gives haste...I mean warchief does the same thing but having 6 lords is great. I was playing today and my opponent attacked with two creatures, I had nothing on the board except 2 lands and a vial at three. I had one lackey in hand,a seige-gang,a piledriver,and a chieftan. I drew into another lackey and then dropped the lord and two lackeys and you can predict what happened next. My point is I just feel like the chieftan adds some explosivness to the deck that helps more than hurts.You should test 2 and no more than that, it's the perfect amount. The card I'm really thinking about cutting is the instigator .... is really has just been a target more removal and thats all .
ps thanx I fixed the lands ...i was missing some mountains
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
I play mono-red without Chieftains and with chieftain wins in the mirror match, also helps vs engineered plague. I would like to see if it helps vs goyf and Knight of the Reliquary. Knight and goyf just own me.
I am facing an issues with a meta game that is slanted both ways. On one side I have problems vs goyf & Knight of the Reliquary on the other hand a huge crop of stifle-knot & show and tell decks have cropped up due to Emrakul.
Has anyone tried to run 4x Chalice of the Void main deck? I think it could be the ultimate utility.
Drop it for 0 hits LED, moxes
1 hits top, stifle, brainstorm, dark rit, ponder, reanimate
2 hits goyf, counterbalance, loam
3 hits Knight of Reliquary, show and tell, rhox
With vial, lackey and instigator you can work around anything you set it at. Then you have massive agro + artifact problem to deal with.
I'm finally ponying up for a few Duals, does anyone have any suggestions as far as a manabase goes? I'm wondering if the full 4 Badlands is necessary. Also, how would a Rbg manabase work? I've got Enchantress in my meta, and I don't want to get trashed by it.
How about playing Anarchy in the SB then ? ;-)
I play 3 badlands + 1 swamp in Rb just because of Bloodmoon in the SB, considering the moons will be mostly gone in a Rbg build i would play with 3 badlands and one taiga, never had problems with this while running Rbg.
I think 3 Badlands are enough for manafixing. I run 4 Badlands + 1 Swamp, just because I run 3 Weirding and 2 Wort MD.
If you want to play Rbg I would play 2 Taiga (or 1 Taiga, 1 Stomping Ground). When I was running Rbg with only 1 Taiga it got wasted/sinkholed several times before I drew my Krosan Grip. For this reason its good to have a back-up. You cant avaoid this situation by keeping Taiga on hand, because that will surely slow you down.
If you are looking for good SB cards in Rbg it can recommend Reverent Silence. Other lists without G often dont run artifact-hate and a lonely Krosan Grip hardly helps against our critical MUs. That's why I play more "global" solutions.
@ Sligh: Your Chalice + REB reasoning has a point. BUT I have to consider SB options against Enchantress and 2 lonely Anarchy wont help much. Plus: I am conviced that blocking ANT wont help much if you dont do enough damage before he can bounce + go off. Even with Chalice on 0 he can still cast Ritual-->Ritual-->Ad Nauseam and play the artifacts just to push storn count.
Have any of you guys thought about playing deathmark in the board?....... kills goyfs, pridemage, knight, sphinx, iona etc.
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
I think the big thing is being able to deal with Progenitus and Emrakul. Tutorable Warren Weirding does this while untutorable Deathmark does not.
I'm talking about in the board with weirding maindecked. I play 3 bolt, 3 weirding,1 stingscourger, 1 gempalm. I think 2-3 deathmark would be amazing vs zoo and reanimator.
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
It's not optimal but you could probably do with 2 or 3 and a few more fetchlands. It's probably not going to influence your results by a wide margin but I think we can all agree that not running the full set of Badlands is suboptimal in RB Goblins.
Beating Enchantress doesn't require green in my opinion.If Enchantress is a significant part of your metagame you should run 1 Earwig Squad maindeck, as you can often catch them offguard and remove all of their win condition and snag away game 1 (just check out some Enchantress lists, they almost always just run 3 win conditions). Definately run at least 1 Siege Gang as you are going to need it against Moat. Warren Weirding helps a lot as it can clean up Argothian Enchantress. Postboard Anarchy helps a lot, I would recommend running 3 if you expect to face Enchantress so you can count on drawing at least 1 in a long game and play accordingly.
When playing against Enchantress it's important to play on your outs, think about what you need to swing back from an unfavorable gamestate and play accordingly. Sometimes Anarchy is the only card that helps you win, in that case play Ringleader and fetch afterwards to thin your deck and maximize your chances of topdecking Anarchy the next turn. Other times your only out is SGC as you are trapped under a Moat, now fetch first and then play Ringleader as this maximizes your odds of drawing the SGC. You need to play perfect to beat Enchantress as they have a large strategical advantage, so keep your head cool, come prepared and play like a champ.
Team R&D
He can also add 4 Aunties Hovels. Shouldn't cost more than €10-€15 a playset.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Didn't a list that did really well only use 2 Badlands?
Personally i play only 2 badlands, i haven't had any problems with black mana, cause i only use it for the 3 weirdings. 7 fetchs, 4 Rishadan Ports, 4 Wastelands and 5 mountains. Ports, what can i say, i just love them. They have won me so much games just by punishing my oponent for keeping a hand with 2 lands. They have been even better than wastelands, cause they still give me mana after denying theirs. I'm testing right now volrath's stronghold, maybe taking a wasteland out. Stronghold is a card that i always wanted to put, and many times is a game winner.
I wanted to test Volrath's Stronghold too. I would like to hear some results. I want to play 1 Stronghold + 2 Wort, Boggart Auntie. Do you think that's too much?
I played Wort when it was released in lorwyn. If your opponent lets her live at least one turn, the advantage is too much for you. Still, i think 2 of them and one stronghold is too much. Maybe 1 of wort and stronghold, but still seems too much for me. In the high casting cost cards i prefer goblins with an immediate effect, 2 siege-gangs and one kiki jiki. For me, Wort is like lightning crafter, but crafter at least can chamipon a matron or ringleader giving you card advantage when it leaves play.
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