[Deck] CounterTop Thopter

[pippo84]

How are the Stoneforge Mystics working out?

I also thought about them, but never had the occasion to try them.

How many Thopter Foundry do you play since you have no tutors for that combo piece?

Anyone is trying some draw engine in this deck?
I was thinking of adding some Mox to speed up the deck and play heavier CC spells like Fact or Fiction or something else to draw cards, but I'm not sure if it's the right thing.

[bleuisforwhimps]

The stoneforge mystics are great just because they buy you some time against aggro decks by chumpblocking , so are trinket mages. And I play 3 thopter foundry wich is enough because with these creatures you have additional shuffle effects + brainstorm,SDT so they are actually synergistic in that way too.

[grahf]

Yup, I tried 4 Stoneforge Mystics at first but it was too much, the multiples were not as helpful, even with a Jitte in there, 3 is a good number. I'm trying 4 Moms, 3 Mystics, 3 Trinket Mage, 3 Vendilion Clique as my creature base, and Serra Avenger is a likely inclusion. It's very interesting how playing Mystic instead of E Tutor shifts the feel of the deck considerably from that of a Landstill variant. It becomes equipment Fish with a combo win, like some bastard child of UW tempo and Excalibur, except with Countertop.

[obituary 95]

i am thinking about cutting academy ruins from the deck,most the time there ether too slow or just not relevent entirerly ,so what do you guys think should it stay ?or should it be axed for another basic or something

[Whitewolf]

Regarding weather or not to cut the academy ruins depends largly on how many artifacts your running at key costs like 2 and 3(as you can return them with CB on the stack) as well as how often you can expect them to be blown up, in reality the ruins is for more of a lock peice with EE and that usually does not happen but in heavy control mirrors which you should have an edge in anyways, i only run one in SB.

[Anusien]

I would never want to play the mirror without at least one, and maybe two.

[pippo84]

Has anyone updated their list or tried something new in the deck?

[SMR0079]

This is the first Coutertop list I have found that can go 50%+ against the field, including merfolk

11: Stack Control - 4Force, 4Counterbalance, 3Daze
11: Draw - 4Top, 4Brainstorm, 3Tutor
11: Board Control - 3 StP, 2Firespout, Shackles, Bridge, Moat, Explosives, Relic, Needle
5: Win - 2JAce, 3thopter/Sword
22: Land - 2 Ruins, 8 Fetch, 6 Basics, 6 duals

SB:
3 Grip
2 Counter Spell
2 Spell Pierce
1 Firespout
1 StP
2 PAth (1humility?)
1 Crypt
1 Wheel
1 Back to Basics
1 Canonist/Halo ?

I ended up settling for Daze as it helps me interact in the first few turns and survive into the mid to late game. Dropping down to three tutors and less dependence on silver bullets has been an improvement. I'm trying a maindeck split of 3/2 with Swords and Firespout, although runing less then 4 swords feels wrong.

I hope this helps, it's been performing for us.

[Anusien]

I have a hard time believing that list can go >50% against Reanimator. I'm pretty sure you need some out to their guys.

[SMR0079]

I have a hard time believing that list can go >50% against Reanimator. I'm pretty sure you need some out to their guys.

Reanimator is good, I play it as well, but it's not as tough for this list. We need to put more games in to really say definitively, but it appears to be failry even. When they get the turn 2 Iona/Inkwell with double counters they win. However, they can't always god draw you, and when the game slows down by just a turn or two, you can find bridge to stop them, or just lock them out with countertop if they have a slower hand. Null Rod is great for them in this match which makes me want a Wheel in the board. I"m a little light on yard hate, and thinking of cutting something in the board for more.

What would you change to improve the match up?

[Anusien]

The best card I've found for that 15th card in the sideboard (that was Mystic Remora) is Compost. It has a lot of utility in a lot of matchups.

Also, I've traded in Sower of Temptation for a Porphyry Nodes, and Ensnaring Bridge for Noetic Scales. From my original maindeck, I'm -land, +1 blue spell, probably Jace #2.

[obituary 95]

i have played against reanimater alot,and i have found that if you know what cards are important in the match up you should win as long as they do not get a way to reanimate turn 1

[Anusien]

Okay, which cards do you consider important then? I'm assuming you mean something less obvious than "Don't let them put a fattie onto the battlefield if you can't deal with it, and don't let them resolve Mystical when you're all-in on Ensnaring Bridge."

[ninja]

I've seen a lot of lists posted, most of which do not include include Seal of Removal, or Seal of Cleansing. Seal of Cleansing provides an answer to range of hate cards, from pithing needle to null rod to leyline. It's tutorable and nobody ever sees it coming. I played it at a BoM trial, and it was fantastic.

Seal of Removal is a much more narrow card, but provides a less costly blue out to reanimated ionas. Inkwell's and such all fall to bridge, and humilty is an expensive to re-animator. Maybe more wheel of sun and moon is require to beat this match-up more effectively.

Has anyone played with main deck moat? I'm debating moat vs. humility, and am unsure about which to I would use at a large event (200+).

[obituary 95]

Okay, which cards do you consider important then? I'm assuming you mean something less obvious than "Don't let them put a fattie onto the battlefield if you can't deal with it, and don't let them resolve Mystical when you're all-in on Ensnaring Bridge."

lol this happened when you played me (ps i am death on mws)

has any one tested sideboarded games against zoo ,i played a sb game against zoo and he just kept korosan griping my artifacts . and that was the reason i lost against him . i am thinking about putting a meddling mage in the board to try and get k-grip . i have know idea if it is corect but it might be worth a shot

[Anusien]

That very reason (tons of Krosan Grips) is why I don't rely on artifacts against Zoo. It's too easy to spend five mana Shackles a guy (which can be two turns) or whatever only to have them Grip it at EOT and kill you.

[pippo84]

I already tried Meddling Mage in the board. Sometimes it was great, others just underwhelming. If they side out creature removal it's really good. In a match I had Pithing Needle on Qasali and Meddling Mage on Krosan Grip and he didn't have any outs from my combo.
Anyways I'm not sure if I would run it again because it can be great or useless.

Ansusien: on what do you rely against zoo? Firespout and?

[ninja]

Every zoo player, game two, boards out: Path to Exile! I've been running 3-4 Gameslayer Angels in my side against those decks who just can't deal with it post board. I also run an extra 2 path to exile in the board, to bolster the 4 main deck stp. Seriously, Game 2 is a lock if you land one.

[Arcadia]

I've tried the deck, and I have a few conclusions. Chrome mox and tfk are usually horrible. Maybe it's bc of my meta is full of blue, and I don't like to lose cards, but mox always stays in my hand until I can shuffle/discard. Mixing mox tutors and fow seems a bit dangerous. TFK is not bad, but sometimes you just don't have the artifact to discard, and it's a bit slow.

I've run a build without creatures MD and 3 cliques +1 baneslayer sb...and it's awsome. I'm thinking on using some more baneslayers and cliques. Not everyone SB out all the swords, but with clique you can win with creatures, and cycle krosan grips an other stuff. The problem is that I don't have enough room..but i'll figure it out.

I was very pleased by humility as 1-of in the sideboard. I would like to ask about merfolks and zoo matchup. In 2 tournaments I still haven't faced them..

[SMR0079]

We cut Shackles and Crucible from the maindeck. Bridge and Moat main, with a humility in the board for pridemage and terrestadon. Firespout was replaced with path cutting red all together. Not sure whether thats right or not. My friend has a love affair with Cliq and currently has 2 maindeck, whereas I prefer Baneslayer Angel.

Zoo is tough with both pridemage and grips. Firespout or extra paths are definitly necassary.

SB Silver Bullets:
Cop Red, Canonist, Tsabo's Web, Wheel, Relic, Humility