[B&R] Mystical Tutor banned / Illusionary Mask and Grim Monolith unbanned

[Phoenix Ignition]

The sky is falling remarks are quite amusing, but I always liked Bryant's storm deck better than ANT anyway.

I see this as very healthy for the format, and am surprised that WoTC got it so right. ANT wasn't necessarily a problem in placing here in the US, but it definitely was the best deck out there. Not only did it have a ~50% or higher win ratio against blue control decks, it was very close to a coin flip against CB/Top, the deck that was supposed to keep it in check. Mystical Tutor was a big problem because it was a quick response to something like CB, the opponent plays CB and in response I tutor for a k grip/wipe away.

The other problem with Mystical Tutor is it let combo decks beat decks that had loads of hand hate, meaning the only way to beat combo is through hate bears if you don't have blue. I duress you? You *hide* the exact card you need to win on top of your library in response. Brainstorm has always helped against hand hate, but Mystical made it almost irrelevant. It let combo decks run 1-of sideboard cards to stop the 3 to 4 of sideboard cards that everyone else ran against them.

Also, Reanimator got Show and Tell, which blanks the only sideboard anyone can play against them now. You can have 8 graveyard hate cards and the Reanimator player doesn't even have to trick you with Exhume-> Entomb, they can just grab there 1-of (or with Mystical Tutor, their 5-of) Show and Tell and make all of your sideboard irrelevant.

Just play TES, combo is no where near dead.

[(nameless one)]

Its unfortunate that the Lady in Red is heading to the denied box but can we stop all this bitching? Please.

Yes, AnT and Reanimator won't be as consistent as they are but they are still a deck. No, those decks did not die, they just got slowed.

Its funny because I still see people saying they'll quit when they already said that they will quit when M10 combat rules and reprint policy changed. I say please quit and sell your cards.

On the other hand, I think Grim Monolith is suffering from Dream Halls Syndrome. Its currently $30 a piece but is it really that good? Yes, it will enable Staxx and MUD comebacks but does it fix their inconsistency?

EDIT: speaking of combo is dead:

Mystical Tutor out, Grim Monolith in..... Combo loses consistency and 1st turn Trinispheres becomes easier.

[Finn]

Yes. Mystical Tutor fetches stuff at eot (or even on upkeep) and sb stuff while Pesonal Tutor does not. But the deck still functions - just on a less agile level. Hence, the deck is diminished, not dead. Same for ANT. It maybe hurt some. But it has plenty of other options. After all, there have only been 71 different versions of Tendrils combo in Legacy's short life. Find another way.

I have not been keeping tabs, but I would still bet that the people who are lamenting the apparent proximity of the sky to the tops of their heads are the same folks who were arguing that ANT and Reanimator were the only decks to play and blue was the only color in this game. And the same people who every few months remark that Wizards does not care about Legacy. You can't have it both ways.

[ddt15]

Its currently $30 a piece

What?? Like overnight or what? This hysterical speculation is even worse than at the stock market, and it makes even less sense.

[workingdude]

Sorry for replying to this particular post very late, which I think has very important ramifications, but I had to sleep.

We should all be glad our format didn't die today like Extended did.

This quote rings really true to me. I am glad that the format didn't die, but now the possibility of killing is now very possible.



"What I would like to see is this format become more widely played than Legacy. Legacy is a great format and I love playing it but the fact is that Legacy has its limits."

The fact that they mention this makes me wonder their ultimate intentions. Why don't they want it to be better than Standard? Because Standard makes them more money, and Legacy does not.



Also, I think I may just hold on to the mystical tutors. Who knows, maybe they'll be unbanned soon and jump up to 20$ each. :D

[Deviruchi]

Wow, WOTC/DCI managed to shock me so much.

I think they banned MT because they couldn't ban Entomb which got recently unbanned. In my opinion they knew they have screwed game with so fast Entomb-Iona, they didn't see that people adopt to it (but still hate the situation) and they wanted to fix it somehow. Doing this they managed also to weaken combo decks cause they love mtg as a game of combat dmg decks ( "Creature based metagames are the way to go") and they probably hate that vs non-blue deck combo deck has almost auto win.

Today it must feel good to be zoo or lands.dec player. I almost convinced myself that it is enough of online testing and it's time to buy dd-ant cards. I saved money but now I don't have a deck that I would like to play in Legacy.

I hate the ban, I'm ok with unbannings, but the best think is that they managed to shake format a bit before GP. Changes maybe won't please me but I like that kind of twist before big tournaments.

[Rune]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMt7s...ayer_embedded#!

Watch from 18:58 and on.

Angels vs Vampires!!

[Jaynel]

With two of it's poor matchups slowed considerably, and the likely decrease in amount of graveyard hate, is Ichorid prime for a comeback?

[Jeff Kruchkow]

At first, the ban made me quite angry because I'm a die hard combo player. Then I realized everyone will think combo is dead and I'll get to walk all over them in tourneys for being unprepared. After all TES played with no MTs for the longest time, so its still viable.

[Jon Stewart]

I wouldn't be that overjoyed if I were a Lands.dec or Zoo player.

Both decks are not difficult to hate out. Cards like Firespout do just fine against Zoo but several decks devoted so many cards to the ANT and Iona matchups that they didn't have room for them. And graveyard hate which hated on almost every viable combo deck but ANT, and also hates on Lands, and TES, just got more potent, and will see even more play than it already does.

With ANT and Reanimator getting a slight nerf, now everyone is going to aim their sideboard hate slots squarely at what they consider the new best decks in the format. And it's not going to be pretty. :p

[Cesarius]

On the other hand, I think Grim Monolith is suffering from Dream Halls Syndrome. Its currently $30 a piece but is it really that good? Yes, it will enable Staxx and MUD comebacks but does it fix their inconsistency?

I agree.

It will improve the Stax archetype, no doubt, but it's still not the Mishra's Workshop people want it to be. Landing a first turn monolith -> 3-sphere sounds nice, but that's a 3 card combo, not to mention the monolith doesn't untap, which means it's not a 100% tempo gain.

Give it a month or two, alongside a few tournaments and I bet we'll see the monolith dropping again, stabilizing around ~$10, maybe even less.

[Jon Stewart]

With two of it's poor matchups slowed considerably, and the likely decrease in amount of graveyard hate, is Ichorid prime for a comeback?

I don't know what makes you think there will be a decrease in graveyard hate. Yes, Reanimator got a slight blow to it. But TES and Lands both got a boost and they are exceedingly vulnerable to graveyard hate.

Just count up how much of the typical sideboard slots went to the ANT matchup. Now those slots could be replaced with graveyard hate and zoo hate.

There might well be a surge of ex-ANT players that switch over to Ichorid briefly, but that's only going to increase the rate at which Leylines become even more prevalent.

I expect to see an increase in the number of Leylines of Void and Firespouts that see play. Not a decrease.

[Jak]

I like the ban. I mean, I think banning one of blue's degenerate spells only helps other decks like Non-blue Survival, The Rock, Non-blue board control decks, etc. It lowers the consistency of the two good combo decks in the format and in turn that will slow down how fast they put their combos together. Both decks are still playable but it gives non blue decks a better shot.

I think most are happy or at least content with this banning, so don't believe this thread has everyone's opinions. It is mostly ANT and Reanimator players, which is fine of course, I would be livid if they banned Survival or something. I just hope people don't believe Legacy is dying because people are screaming it in this thread.

But obviously my worry is still there that they are changing things to rapidly, banning cards from decks that aren't much of a problem, etc. I just like that they made it so you don't need blue to survive.

[(nameless one)]

What?? Like overnight or what? This hysterical speculation is even worse than at the stock market, and it makes even less sense.

Actually, that price was off of magicinfo :http://www.magiccards.info/query?q=g...v=card&s=cname

That site is 90% accurate when it comes to card price depiction.

Its funny because now, the price for Grim Monolith has been down. Something tells me that there is a bunch of fluctionation going on.

and this:

I think banning one of blue's degenerate spells only helps other decks like Non-blue Survival, The Rock, Non-blue board control decks, etc. It lowers the consistency of the two good combo decks in the format and in turn that will slow down how fast they put their combos together. Both decks are still playable but it gives non blue decks a better shot.

[GtF]

My reactions:

Grim monolith unbanned: Awesome.

Illusionary mask unbanned: Whatever, sure why not.

Mystical Tutor banned: Unnecessary, but really not that big of a deal. Combo will still be good, maybe different combo decks will arise, belcher didn't use it at all and was decent. Maybe this was in anticipation of another broken combo piece in scars of mirroden.


Extended:
Like the bannings of sword and hypergenesis, but I wish they hadn't obliterated 3 blocks in one fell swoop. Now extended is just 2-3 blocks bigger than standard, that's not very interesting. I think they should have left kamigawa block in. It also messes with people's card prices too much at once.

[(nameless one)]

Just to add, but not sure if this is the right place

I think WotC just really hate combo. Outside Extended's rotation shafting, Extended also LOST most of its premier combo decks because of the banning of Sword of the Meek and Hypergenesis, on top of rotating Dark Depths out.

[TeenieBopper]

Because no one over at WotC is actually good at the game or even plays it competitively, or even pays attention to results and are slightly ghay??

Removed flame. -J Half of R&D was on the gravy train or won a PT outright before joining wizards. Randy Butler would be in the hall of fame if he weren't an employee.

[clavio]

You're a fucking idiot. Half of R&D was on the gravy train or won a PT outright before joining wizards. Randy Butler would be in the hall of fame if he weren't an employee.

There are no big magic players named Randy Butler. If you mean Randy Buehler he is in the hall of fame and hasn't been employed in years.

[Tacosnape]

You people need to quit crying. Mystical Tutor was a good ban. It doesn't completely get rid of either Storm Combo or Reanimator, but makes them not the two strongest decks in the format anymore (They were, btw.)

Illusionary Mask will see play with Dreadnought and a few other things that have face-up triggers (Fathom Seer comes to mind.) I think between it and Grim Monolith, a very powerful Trinket Mage deck will emerge.

Grim Monolith, however, is -extremely- powerful in this format, and immediately goes into several existing archetypes as follows.

1. Belcher can, should, and will run 4 Grim Monolith. It's true acceleration in a Storm ramp, and it's excellent for getting a Belcher down on an acceleration-light hand.

2. Dragon Stompy will attempt to run Grim Monolith. This may be what gives rise to Covetous Dragon being playable in the deck, and it will more likely bring Arc-Slogger back for it.

3. Painter Stone will get better. Grim Monolith lets this combo go off on turn two via turn one Monolith (Off a tomb, city, petal, whatever), turn two land, Grindstone, Painter, Activate, win.

4. Other weird decks will emerge now that getting 6 mana on turn two is a very possible part of Legacy.

EDIT: Also, I can't help but wonder if Mono Black Reanimator gains ground on U/B because of this. It's certainly where I'm leaning. Packing Putrid Imp, Animate Dead, 4 Iona, a couple Terastodons and Sphinxes, etc.

[Nelis]

I think its a very good move. Anyone who thinks ANT is not that good either never faced the deck or played against someone who couldn't pilot it. Its almost impossible to win from ANT with aggro (Zoo and Goblins anyway, I'm not so sure about merfolk). I still think its gonna be a good deck but at least if I do happen to land some hate I can expect it to stay there a bit longer and I'll actually have a shot at winning.

I believe what JAK and Taco said is true. I think it would be good for the format.