[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

[Bryant Cook]

Running witness in the board right now. Iona is my only MD dedicated DR target.

I've also made this move since earlier. I changed Witness to a third Dread Return, with these changes to my sideboard...


4 Firestorm
4 Chain of Vapor
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Terastodon

[kurterickson]

Ok so here is my list;

4x Lotus Petal
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Narcomoeba
4x Bridge from Below
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Putrid Imp
3x Breakthrough
3x Careful Study
3x Golgari Thug
3x Dread Return
3x Ichorid
3x Bloodghast
2x Darkmor Salvage
1x Undiscovered Paradise
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Flame-Kin Zealot
1x Yosei, the Morning Star

Sideboard:

4x Pithing Needle
4x Chain of Vapor
3x Unmask
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1x Terastodon
1x Cephalid Sage

Card Explanations:

Lotus Petal I find is a lot better for being able to play a PImp and a Therapy in the same turn or a Study and a breakthrough can make a lot of match ups fairly better.

Bloodghast is basically a second Ichorid. Being able to dredge back the Salvage and recurring 1-2 Ghasts after dredging for your draw can help get a DR off earlier in the game. The salvage also helps get under ravenous trap.

Inkwell Leviathan and Yosei: Inkwell is possible the best basic option (matchup dependent of course) for a beat stick that can be animated from the graveyard. Islandwalk is a bonus seeings how a fair bit of decks have islands in their manabase. Yosei, as stated earlier, is probably a better win con than recurring cephalid sage for the fact it doesn't mean you have to win that turn. It leaves more options open and by the time you DR it back and sack it to a therapy or another DR, your opponent shouldn't have much more than 5 permanents anyways.

Pithing Needle and Chain of Vapor: Pithing needle shuts down too many things not to run 4 of. Chain of vapor is a quick answer to almost anything.

Unmask is a nice side board to remove any highly threatening cards, or to just slow down your opponent giving you time to set up. It can also combos great with cabal therapy.

The 4 dread return targets in the side board are based heavily on what your meta is. Iona can shutdown storm decks, or just cut you opponent out of a color. Terastodon is for ghostly prison and such. Akroma is mainly for goblins, but can also help with going for game when you have next to lethal damage on the board. The cephalid sage is just for opposing combo decks too.

[GreenOne]

...don't you think 7 DR targets in the maindeck + 4 SB is too much?

[kurterickson]

I only have 3 main deck though. GGT is basically "I'm screwed" dread return target but I hardly ever need to. Game 1 is usually just a win either turn 2 or 3 (depending on the opposing deck, storm is a bit rough along with enchantress) then game 2 I usually slow roll treading carefully knowing most of my opponents SB in 3-4 ravenous traps. If I'm able to get them with an unmask or cabal therapy then ill go for the speed kill. But normally I just dread return either inkwell, yosei, or FKZ for the win.

[jimirynk]

@ Eternal witness
Games 2/3 become an uphill battle If you get 3 creature's in play and have a dread return AND a target AND get it to resolve AND they don't macbree it after you targeted it, WHY WOULD YOU WANT A WITNESS?

Iona
Ancestor's chosen
Inkwell

Those are the game 2/3 target I want to get into play..

[GreenOne]

I only have 3 main deck though. GGT is basically "I'm screwed" dread return target but I hardly ever need to. Game 1 is usually just a win either turn 2 or 3 (depending on the opposing deck, storm is a bit rough along with enchantress) then game 2 I usually slow roll treading carefully knowing most of my opponents SB in 3-4 ravenous traps. If I'm able to get them with an unmask or cabal therapy then ill go for the speed kill. But normally I just dread return either inkwell, yosei, or FKZ for the win.

You have 7 maindeck (4 sages) without counting GGT, and everyone is running 0-2.
So you statistically find yourself with more DR targets in the grave, than actual DRs.
Don't you think this is too much?

[Anusien]

I may post a report if there's interest. I just 3-1ed a Legacy Daily Event. The highlight was round 4 against New Horizons. I lost game 1. Game 2 I had a 1 outlet hand, so when I went turn 1 outlet and he Swordsed it, I pitched most of my hand. He obviously had a Crypt. I grudged the Crypt and played a Cephalid Coliseum. He wasted the Coliseum, and also Swordsed a second Ichorid when I brought it back. I still won.

Game 3 he had Swords to Plowshares on your outlet, Tormod's Crypt, Bojuka Bog, Force of Will, Stifle and I still won.

[Nidd]

I may post a report if there's interest. I just 3-1ed a Legacy Daily Event. The highlight was round 4 against New Horizons. I lost game 1. Game 2 I had a 1 outlet hand, so when I went turn 1 outlet and he Swordsed it, I pitched most of my hand. He obviously had a Crypt. I grudged the Crypt and played a Cephalid Coliseum. He wasted the Coliseum, and also Swordsed a second Ichorid when I brought it back. I still won.

Game 3 he had Swords to Plowshares on your outlet, Tormod's Crypt, Bojuka Bog, Force of Will, Stifle and I still won.

Sounds like some crazy stuff happened, I'd like to read about that.

[kurterickson]

That was a typo, seeing as how I typed at 3 A.M... Its fiixed now though. It was meant to be the draw 3 land. >.<

[Exospaciac]

I may post a report if there's interest. I just 3-1ed a Legacy Daily Event. The highlight was round 4 against New Horizons. I lost game 1. Game 2 I had a 1 outlet hand, so when I went turn 1 outlet and he Swordsed it, I pitched most of my hand. He obviously had a Crypt. I grudged the Crypt and played a Cephalid Coliseum. He wasted the Coliseum, and also Swordsed a second Ichorid when I brought it back. I still won.

Game 3 he had Swords to Plowshares on your outlet, Tormod's Crypt, Bojuka Bog, Force of Will, Stifle and I still won.

Yeah, that sounds pretty nuts. I'd like to know how you beat all that hate.

[Matthias]

Hi,

I would like to know how the recent banning of Mystical Tutor and the resulting impact on ANT and Reanimator should affect our sideboard for an unknown metagame (i.e. 100+ people tournament).

I used to run a board like:

4 Chain of Vapor
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Unmask
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Furystoke Giant
1 Ancestor's Chosen

Now that the tow hardest combo matchups are likely to be less present, shouldn't I switch the Unmasks for Firestorm to have an edge against Zoo and Merfolk?

[Augustas]

a noobish question haha. do you get more tokens for sacrificed ones (like, for therapy and dread return)?

[MMogg]

a noobish question haha. do you get more tokens for sacrificed ones (like, for therapy and dread return)?

No.

Whenever a nontoken creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
When a creature is put into an opponent's graveyard from the battlefield, if Bridge from Below is in your graveyard, exile Bridge from Below.

[SHABOOGS]

Here's another question: Let's say both players have creatures in play and there's a bridge in the yard. Would I still get tokens if my opponent casts a Fleshbag Marauder or Damnation? This happened to me yesterday and someone said that I can stack the ability so that I can end up with tokens. The thing is: How do I stack the abilities in order to get the desired output? (If it is possible in the first place)

BTW I finished 5th in that tourney. XD

[Matthias]

Here's another question: Let's say both players have creatures in play and there's a bridge in the yard. Would I still get tokens if my opponent casts a Fleshbag Marauder or Damnation? This happened to me yesterday and someone said that I can stack the ability so that I can end up with tokens. The thing is: How do I stack the abilities in order to get the desired output? (If it is possible in the first place)

It's your Bridge, so it's your trigger. After a mass removal, all creatures hit the graveyard at the same time. You will stack the bridge triggers, letting your opponent creatures' death triggers go on the stack first, than your creatures' triggers. "Your" trigger will resolve first, so you get tokens, than "your opponent's" trigger will resolve, exiling all bridges from your graveyard.

[Digital Devil]

Mini-report of a 31-men tournament - I saw A TON of hate, since most people remembered the last montlhy event, with 7 dredge decks out of 30 people, with 2 of them in the top8 - one (me) finished first place. Half of the field had 4x graveyard hate slots, but I faced the other half with 6 to 8 hate pieces...

Round 1 - Glimpse Elves
City of Brass into Putrid Imp. He plays Heath ===> Forest ===> Quirion Ranger, so I put him on Survival.
On my second turn, I discard a GGT to dredge 6. Breakthrough ===> Iona on green.

-3 Golgari Thug, -3 Careful Study, +3 Darkblast, +3 Ancient Grudge

While sideboarding, my opponent accidentally revealed Glimpse of Nature and a Relic of Progenitus. Nice. Well, not exactly, since he leads with Forest and Llanowar Elves, I go with Turn 1 Tribe, the following turn he goes Forest ===> Quirion Ranger ===> Glimpse of Nature ===> gg.

Game 3 was almost identical, except I played Tribe with a Tarnished Citadel instead of Gemstone Mine, and I played Breakthrough milling 10 cards only, finding nothing relevant. He didn't even need to play his hate cards, since he lucksacked two second turn kills. He also sayed if it weren't for my g1 second turn Iona, he would've won the following turn. WTF, 3 second turn kills? Looks awesome.

Round 2 - Demon Stompy
G1 I open with Putrid Imp, he plays a City of Traitors into Chalice@1. I Dredge 6, find Ichorid and another Imp. He plays a Swamp to play Trinisphere. I proceed with Ichorid beatdown. He plays Swamp, and a Chrome Mox. I point at his Trinisphere. He makes a sad face, while I deal 5 damage per turn, until the game's over.

Before the beginning of the event, I heard him saying "Well, if I play Crypt followed by a Trinisphere, they can't Grudge until they reach 3 mana, meaning I can set a fast clock, and..." But I didn't hear the rest of the words, as he suddenly switched his Crypts for Leylines, and when a Leyline of the Void was deployed on the table, I scooped without even playing a single turn. The 3x Grudge I sided in instead of Studies were useless.

-3x Grudge, -1x Cabal Therapy, +4x Nature's Claim

As usual, he drops first turn Leyline, but I have Claim in my hand. I drop Pimp, and pass the turn. He goes with Tomb, Mox, Priest of Gix and face-down Bane of the Living. During my turn, I was forced to draw, since I had a single land, and a Breakthrough I wanted to cast. So, I pass the turn, counting to EOT Claim his Leyline, and then during my turn dredge the hell of out my deck with the blue sorcery. He plays Nether fu***n' Void. I Claim his Leyline in response, but then I can't Breakthrough, and my hopes of glory were crushed when I realised my army of Zombies would fall before a flipped Bane. GG.

Round 3 - I seriously don't know what deck it was, I crushed him both games in like 2 turns
Both games were turn 1 discard outlet, turn 2 Breakthrough, Iona, gg. With my Therapies I saw some green accelerants, and burn. Grudges were unnecessary.

Round 4 - RB Goblins
I lead with Careful Study, discarding 2 Trolls. He plays Badlands and Lackey. I Dredge 6, finding another Troll. I then Breakthrough, lucksacking enough to find 3 Narcomoebas, Dread Return, and Iona, naming red. Bridge from Below tokens would have protected the 7/7 from Warren Weirding, I guess.

-3x Careful Study, -3x Golgari Thug, +3x Ancient Grudge, +3x Darkblast

We both mull to 5, he is at 1 land, and kept only because of Vial, but Iona gets me there once again.

Round 5 - Dream Halls
We both mull to 4, and I win with Narcomoeba and Tribe beatdown

-3x Careful Study, -1x Dread Return, +4x Nature's Claim

He opens with Tomb, Petal, Show and Tell ===> Progenitus. WTF.

-1x Tireless Tribe, +1x Ancestor's Chosen.

Show and Tell ===> Dream Halls ===> 3x Cruel Ultimatum, followed by 2nd turn Emrakul. Oh, I also mulled down to 3. Funny.
---------------------------------------------------------------
The sad thing is that deck is set to defeat the top tiers, and I faced 4x rogue decks. They didn't even need to show me their Crypts/Relics, since they either won in like 2 turns, or I won in 2 turns. Most disgraceful tournament report, ever. My sideboard was the following:

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 3 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 1 [JU] Ancestor's Chosen
SB: 1 [GP] Angel of Despair

I'm still not sure about Leyline of the Void, as I want to fit in an additional Ancient Grudge. Thoughts?

[(nameless one)]

I actually liked your sideboard when your gravehate was Faerie Macabre. Someone did mentioned that they are really good against Mirror and Reanimator and they can also provide as Ichorid Fodder.

I am still skeptical over 3 Darkblasts on your side. Ever tried Firestorm on the side? Possibly Path to Exile for big creature removal?

Also, why no Terastodon on the side?

[VITASOY]

Can we get a consolidated main deck just to see the general direction everyone is headed

[Nidd]

Can we get a consolidated main deck just to see the general direction everyone is headed

My current list is:

4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe

4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bridge from Below

4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel


I dislike MD DR targets because they always feel so win-more G1.

[indefinite.soul]

4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe

4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bridge from Below

4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel

Same here but:

-2 Tarnished Citadel
+2 Undiscovered Paradise
Can't see any reason why to use TC. You won't get both Paradises anyway.

-1 Tireless Tribe
-1 Golgari Thug
+1 Flame-kin Zaelot
+1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
I agree the DR targets may be unnecessary. Are 4th Tribe and Thug the right call?

Also, my SB is:
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Firestorm
4 Null Rod
2 Wispmare
1 Ancestor Chosen