When speaking of Leylines in the SB, I assume you mean a whole playset. Including 4 additional cards with CMC 4 in a deck with Ad nauseam doesn't seem to be too smart.Originally Posted by Noman Peopled
I think this face ":p" implies sarcasm
Thanks for trolling
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I brought this up in the SCD for Dark Tutelage, but what about running Dark Tutelage in replacement for Mystical Tutor? This deck is already designed around a very low cc curve, and with 4 Sensei's Divining Top, could very easily take little to no damage from the Dark Tutelage. The deck could easily maintain the tools it would need to race aggro, while the Dark Tutelages would help it to fight blue decks.
Thoughts?
Or you could just run Dark Confidant. Does the same thing, costs 1 less, and beats for 2 a turn vs. control/mirror.
And gets nailed by almost every single removal spell in the format.Or you could just run Dark Confidant. Does the same thing, costs 1 less, and beats for 2 a turn vs. control/mirror.
And forces them to have cards game 2 that do nothing against the combo proper. If not, there's no issue.
Also, Bob costs 1B which is pretty vital; we can have it out both t1 and t2 much more reliably. Against some decks (especially ones he got boarded in against), Bob can get an attack in, in effect producing a permanent 1 storm.
You can play Bob t1 off land+Mox or t2 off land+land or land+Mox. You can't play Tut t1 at all without expending more ressources than you should, and still need a Mox to cast it t2. Effectively, it gets you one less card for the debatable price of lessened vulnerability (pretty much everybody seems to be running Pridemages these days).
However, I'd say that regardless of vulnerability it serves a different purpose. We can't just replace a straight-up tutor with one-sided draw, especially since we want to minimize the number of AdNs to as few as is realistic. Finding AdN is where Tutelage and Bob both profoundly fail. At best they'll complete your Lions Eye/INfernal combination, which is a known liability against counterspells, or refuel the cantrip action, which takes more time still. They both quite reliably help fight through counterspells and hate by finding more Chants and Rituals, assuming you have other ways of finding AdN.
At that cost, we could run Cunning Wish, which would be much closer to the functionality to MTutor, despite it's steep cost. (Needless to say, it too can't compare. For starters, it can get only the one engine most vulnerable to damage.)
We're combo; we want to win t1-3 if possible. Where it's not possible, we can profit heavily from a draw a turn; elsewhere, we can't - and the metagame is pretty aggressive to boot. Vulnerability is one thing; but when a huge chunk of the metagame limits the draw you have simply by its clock, I think we have a problem. At this point, I'd rather add Preordain so we can cimply cantrip more often.
I agree with what's already been posted, but would also like point out that there's a card called phyrexian arena, that's better. Yet its still not played.
Well, it was just an idea that popped in my head, so I figured I'd suggest it. Nothing gained, but nothing lost.
Tendrils was a great deck long before Ad Nauseam was printed. It might even have been a better deck, because both the decklist and the players weren't warped around the linear plan. Without Mystical Tutor, you can no longer get AN for free, nor can you win off of it for free. The solution is simple: return to your roots. Here's a start:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
With a proper helping of duress effects, really, nothing but Counterbalance beats this.
Its funny, me and a teammate are actually working on a very similar idea. The biggest issue is playing through perminant based hate. That's where mystical shined more than anywhere else, and that's where TES still seems to pull ahead through the use of bwish. Granted a non ad naus could still play bwish, but your mana base gets fucked up and the deck just keeps getting weaker from there. I'm personally putting storm on the shelf for awhile. Its not what it used to be, and I think there are just better decks to play. In a month or two it might be worth playing again when there's less hate, but for now it doesn't look bright.
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
2 Grim Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
3 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Krosan Grip
2 Rebuild
1 Reverent Silence
2 Thoughtseize
1 Tropical Island
This deck came in at a 9-0 record on day one at GP Columbus and in the end came in 19th. I think it is pretty strong and a new, form of Saito ANT.
I don't like the 2 Grim Tutors, they are 2 cmc 3 that only function at sorcery speed and are likely to make you do a 2x1 since you're not going to have 3 lands untapped with that build very soon. The best it can do at cycling itself is to take a LED, at the cost of 3 lives in a build that runs also Thoughtseize. I think it's very subpar.
On the other side, I'm working on revenueing UBw(g) ANT and as of now it seems to work quite well. The only compromise was, of course, to counter the absence of Mysticals increasing the threat density, so more bombs and more good cantrips (i.e., I don't think Preordain is really necessary in this configuration you already have 6 to 8 fetchlands to provide a shuffle effect post Ponder or BStorm).
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This list just won the Legacy Magic Online Championship Series. 113 man event pilot went 14-1.
2 Crystal Vein
2 Flooded Strand
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
15 lands
0 creatures2 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
3 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Orim's Chant
4 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Silence
1 Tendrils of Agony
45 other spellsSideboard
4 Dark Confidant
2 Disfigure
2 Echoing Truth
2 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tropical Island
It was piloted by Ari Lax, and actually came down to him vs. Bryant Cook for the top 8. It was a super close match, and he DIDN'T BOARD CONFIDANTS. Had he, he easily would have won the match.
Grim tutor is a lot better than you think. It serves as Infernal Tutor 5 and 6, and also is another way to generate 10 storm without using Ad Nauseam. Playtesting the deck you'll discover is surprisingly easy to Igg Loop for the win, or generate 9-10 storm just through cantrips.
To be fair though, Ari also admitted that he didn't face a single blue deck day one. Bryant on the other hand faced a blue deck nearly every round. The deck also has a major flaw in the fact that it only contains 1 tendrils, and is therefore cold to extract, sadisitic sacrement, a well timed extirpate, etc.
Easily would've beat me? Do you know who I am?
Although, he should've boarded them in...
Haha, he would have recovered twice as quickly during the cripple fight while making your life total decrease very quickly. It makes me assume that he would have won, but then again, you are Bryant Cook. My apologies.
17 lands and 0 Chrome Moxes really seems wrong. I'm not sure what to think of Grim Tutor. I've been testing a similar list, but with Chant and Chrome Moxes, and Grim Tutor has been pretty good. It makes it very easy to IGG loop against blue decks, but it seems very anti-synergistic with AdN and it's almost always just better for me to win with IGG rather than the AdN, which makes it feel like I'm playing Iggy Pop and not ANT.
My main concern with these neo-ANT lists, also, is that they lose to Gaddock Teeg and/or Canonist g1 (yeah, there are some decks playing it MD, especially Zoo plays Gaddock). Even if we were to play a singleton Chain of Vapor, finding it via cantrips means an excessive loss of time and resources. That's why I'm skeleptical about the new storm combo lists that don't have any tutor power in the form of either Doomsday or Burning Wish.
Also, post Ad Nauseam you rely A LOT more on Infernal Tutor+LED to find the Tendrils, since you can't go Mystical+Cantrip anymore. This has happened frequently during tests.
Extract and Sadistic Sacrament are cards that won't see play in Legacy again. Guess why? Because the only tutor that could grab them has been banned. And I'm willing to bet mono-Black or Eva Green has other problems before dedicating 3-4 slots to fight a deck that will be considered dead or just too much weakened to care about.
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