It seems as if the kicker on Orim's Chant is very very rarely played or relevant - is it worthwhile reversing the Chant/Silence split to play 3 Silences and 1 Chant? Since Silence doesn't target, you get some incremental gains against Enchantress and against anyone packing Runed Halos or Leyline of Salvation. Even if Leyline is a bad choice for SB cards against TES, some people will try it, and it seems like you're really sacrificing nothing to make this switch for a small gain.
Last edited by JosephBono; 07-09-2010 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Correct punctuation is tech
I don't think it's worth the change. There's more aggro than morons running white leyline.Originally Posted by JosephBono
Enchantress is this decks best MU apart from lands most likely. All you have to do is set up a tendrils kill and they are hopeless to stop it unless the chantress player somehow gets turn 1 argothian off of mox then turn 2 solitary confinement followed up by turn 3 enchantress's presence. I mean really, even if they play awful white leyline it isn't hard to get rid of via bounce spells post nauseam. Orim's chant against them should be used like it is against zoo preboard; during their upkeep so they can't play spells and we go off the next turn.
EtW against ichorid is okay turn 1 if they don't explode that turn as well. It depends on how fast they will combo out with a draw spell(s) and how fast they can stabilize with lots of zombies. But usually I would board out EtW against them for the IGG loop because it crushes them unless they play force of will in their sideboard. Overall the MU is in our favor though.
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Bryant - I'm just wondering why you're still playing a sideboard full of singleton instants when there's no practical way to tutor for them (you hardly want to be hellbent-infernaling for them).
This is what he's running:
1 Krosan Grip
1 Wipeaway
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
Functionally, they aren't singletons. When you want bounce, you board in Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapor, and Wipe Away, so you're boarding in 3 cards. Krosan Grip and Wipe Away are there for Counterbalance. They essentially do the same thing in that situation.
krosan grip + wipeaway for anti-counterbalance...but still why one of each. Why not 2 krosan grips? Why not 2 wipeaway's if it's more versatile (anti hate-bear + anti-balance)
Surely choosing one or the other is the better option? (Similarly for the other bounce options)
Pretty much what the other guy said.
I like the one of's..
If you don't like this, you should check out Gabrielle Nassif's Baseruption sideboard. I love that board..
I think by playing the cards in this configuration, it gains versatility without losing effectiveness. In your case, you can only bounce which is less effective as removal where as the single cards from bryant's current board can be versatile enough to remove creatures (if he REALLY needed to) as well as strong enough to destroy artifacts/enchantments. I hope that helped..
Krosan Grip is better at dealing with Counterbalance than Wipe Away is. It actually kills it, Wipe Away just bounces it. But they pretty much do the same thing... you're probably only casting it at the EOT to go off on your turn. It doesn't matter if it's dead, as long as it's not on the board.
So, you make the 1 Grip / 1 Wipe Away split so that you can have a 3rd bounce spell in the board without actually dedicating another slot solely to bounce. Same with the grip: you play it so you have can 3 cards dedicated to artifact hate, 1 of which also takes out Counterbalance. You're playing slightly sub-par cards for the added versatility.
Not to mention, varying the names and mana costs of utility spells is pretty relevant vs Meddling Mage, Chalice, etc.
Mm, thanks that makes a lot of sense. It's not that I didn't like it. I was just wondering what your reasoning was behind it.
I' ve done Top 2 with this list:
T2T – T.E.S. (The Epic Storm), version: Year 0
Maindeck 60
Instant 12
4x Brainstorm
4x Dark Ritual
3x Cabal Ritual
1x Ad Nauseam
Sorcery 24
4x Rite of Flame
4x Burning Wish
4x Duress
3x Infernal tutor
3x Thoughtseize
4x Ponder
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
Artifact 11
4x Lion' s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
3x Chrome Mox
Land 13
4x Gemstone Mine
2x City of Brass
3x Polluted Delta
1xScalding Tarn
1x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Badlands
Sideboard 15
2x Pyroblast
2x Krosan Grip
1x Grapeshot
1x Meltdown
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Echoing Truth
1x Shattering Spree
1x Pyroclasm
1x Deathmark
1x Infernal Tutor
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
Construction Notes: if I expect to see reanimator in the metagame I'll change the cabal therapy for 1x Oust in the sideboard. I' m also thinking about adding the 4th chorme Mox instead of the 3rd cabal ritual.
I' ve written a report here.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
Great result. Just some questions:
-How did you feel without Chants? That's the main reason to play the rainbow lands, I guess. At thi point, wouldn't it be better just to turn to a complete fetchlands and duals manabase? You could alo play 1-2 basic lands in this way. Ar those 2 SB Grips a worth reason to not do this? Also, I fear that without Chants, you're very exposed to Tempo decks (Faeries Ugr/Urb, which is strong even there in Spain, I remember).
-Why Cabal Therapy in the sideboard as a wishable protection, and not T.Seize?
-Did you get to play against Counterbalance yet? Or, in general, did you get fucked by a counter hidden on the top by SDT? That's my main concern with Chant-less lists. For the rest, I'm tempted to stick with a list similar to yours, aka 3c TES.
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I' ve been testing both obviously, while you are right that might be great against tempo decks, they also provide you weakness against them since most of tempo decks attack your mana base badly and having to get that extra white mana might be very difficult in a tight match. That' s why I decided to go for the spot-discard choice, though it is not as hard for protection concern it has the avantage that can be played on rituals, which is in fact a very big advantage, plus having no chants (and discrad instead) strenghtens the CB match up a lot.
I decided to run cabal therapy instead of thoughtseize for many reasons, 1st is because most of times you do know what you don' t want in your opponent's hand, flashback can grant you an extra spell once you have played EtW if you need to do a mini Tendrils/Grapeshot to get those last points of life, and it doesn' t makes you lose life.
Obviously CB-Top is your worst match up, as always, but having all that disruption, plus pyroblast, plus K. Grips, makes the pairing eaiser to handle, the ky in this match up is of course the disruption, when I was playing Orim' s chant I had worse experiences against the CB + Top.
I' m still playing Rainbow mana with a 3-color main deck for may reasons:
The deck needs all 3 colors to play well, it is not as the formor ANT versions with Orim' s chant that only needed the white for protecting and. T.E.S. is not a 2 color deck with a splash, is a 3 color deck (my version at least well in fact it is UBRg) where all 3 colors have the same impact in your deck developement, and what you have to do, you have to do it quick, this is why you cannot allow the deck to fizzle just because you don' t have the correct dual/fetch. It' s also important to pack the K. Grips in sideboard, not only for CB (but mainly), but also for those Chalice decks out there. Playing rainbow lands also makes you stronger against stifle.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
Played TES to a first place finish over the weekend in a 22 person GPT for Columbus. I used Bryant's latest list, -1 Silence, +1 Simian Spirit Guide. I didn't really take notes, but FWIW I'll give a brief run-through of the tournament.
Rd 1 - Reanimator: Won game 1 on turn 3, through an un-protected AdN after being duressed on turn 1. Won game 2 on turn 3 through AdN protected by Pyroblast.
Rd 2 - Cat Zoo: Don't remember G1 at all...Game 2 or 3 I remember using Infernal to get a second RoF/Dark Ritual, then casting Burning Wish into a chant-protected IGG loop (MB trap in his GY).
Rd 3 - Lands: Quick wins through Ad Nauseam G1, G3. Lost game 2 to Chalice (1) + couple wastelands.
Rd 4 and 5 - ID
T8 - Zoo: Won game 1 with ETW for 12 Goblins T1 on the draw. Game 2 he mulliganned a lot; don't remember how I actually won.
T4 - Cat Zoo: I lose the die roll, he plays Horizon Canopy(19) -> Steppe Lynx. I play Land -> Ponder. He plays Taiga, taps Horizon Canopy (18) and plays Gaddock Teeg. I play Land, go. His turn 3, I think he drew and played a fetch (17) and then drew a card with Canopy. I play EOT Brainstorm, and my hand looks like this at the beginning of my turn: {RoF, RoF, Petal, D. Rit, Burning Wish, Tendrils, X). Untap Tap both lands {R, B}, Play Rite, Rite {RRRR, B, S=2}, Petal, Dark Ritual {RRRR, BBBB, S=4), Burning Wish -> Grapeshot (2 @Teeg, 4 @ opponent) {R, BBB, S=6}, Tendrils {S=7}. Game 1 Gaddock Teeg: GTFO. Game 2 was a quick win through a big Empty on T1 or 2.
T2 - Cat Zoo: I think I won game 1, by Burning Wishing into an IGG loop on turn 3 or 4. He was very close to having lethal. Game 2, chant protected ETW (correctly read him for the MB trap) for 14 on Turn 3. Since he actually had a few creatures I had to do some combat math/figuring out what combination(s) of possible burn spells would kill me depending on how many Goblins I attack/block with. I end up not screwing up the combat math, he doesn't have the only spell that could save him (Helix) and that's that.
Yeah, I know, nice pairings, etc. Oh well, at least I have an excuse to go to the Grand Prix now :) The list worked really well, especially since I only played against one Force of Will deck all day and no Counterbalance. I switched the 4th Chant effect into an SSG right before the tournament since I saw a bunch of Goblins/Zoo. I've always liked SSG in TES...it's a shame there's not room for one more (unless I cut a Chrome Mox, which I'm not sure about...).
If you think about it SSG is kind of bad against Zoo. Flip it on Ad Nuaseam and they've got a free Lightning Bolt.
Yeah, that's true, but Chant/Silence are pretty miserable against Zoo, and I really don't like Cabal Rit in T.E.S. so SSG is what I went with. In practice I don't seem to go for AdN too often against Zoo, especially on the draw against versions with Steppe Lynx...they tank your life total so fast...but you're right, against decks with burn, SSG is an awful flip off AdN
I'm not really happy with the Silence slot either, however, I dislike Pre-Ordain, SSG, Chain of Vapor, and Cabal Ritual in that slot. Same goes for the 14th land. There has to be something better.
If you think you're getting mana flooded a lot or are hitting a lot of tempo matchups, a one-of Mox Diamond could be okay. It does the same thing SSG does post-AdN, but it more stable in the tempo matchup letting you trade something that will just get wasted for a permanent mana source. I mean, it's probably going to be dead some of the time due to only playing 13 land, but at the same time, Chain of Vapor and Cabal Rit are dead a lot of the time. Unlike CRit/SSG, this doesn't hurt if you reveal it to AdN.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
How about a 2nd EtW or a Mox Diamond. The 5th Mox might be too risky with only 13 Lands, but helps with Ad Nauseam, Diminishing Returns and the speed in general. But neither seems to fit perfectly.
I have transalated the report.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
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