[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[jazzykat]

I can't tell you why, but this deck is: "like good again". Seriously though, I have been playing my version rather often on MWS, and I just feel like it's good again. Sure zoo is tough, but I feel like I am walking past merfolk post board, bombing on green creatures (perish), and violating the "landstill" decks that decided standstil and manlands are bad.

Is anyone else seeing that this deck is back, or do I just get good results from it?

EDIT: In my last 2 tournaments (which were small): I won first; FBB Badlands, and second Survival of the Fittest.

[Muradin]

Marius Hausmann, Simon Ritzka and me have been playing the deck for 2 years now and we've always had good results with various lists of Dreadstill, 2x getting into top 64 of GP Madrid, Top 2ing Annecy, winning Local 30+ participants tournaments like shit and putting up several other good finishes, like winning a 150+ participants GP trial.

This deck is very strong and a good choice in the current metagame. I could now post my most recent list which has evolved beyond what we are discussing in this thread, but some of my newer additions to the decklist has yet to prove themselves in testing. So far the deck has become a bit more stable while being less vulnerable to some specific but common hate cards. I have lost some flexibility to make the deck more linear and developed a very strong sideboard. However I am still improving my mana base and will post it here when I am happy with the changes.

Considering Grim Lavamancer I don't feel he is that strong against Bant or Zoo. Sure he rocks Merfolk (tried im in the board for some time) but in general I don't think you should be running removal, such as Bolt in your maindeck. The biggest strength of this deck is that while any other control deck in the format runs removal and those cards are often suboptimal or even dead we run 4 Dreadnoughts while the rest of our deck is a blue shell geared towards winning attrition wars, counter battles and resolving our bombs (CB + Top, Standstill)...
Moreover we have a hell of a stable manabase while being very well capable of keeping our opponent off key land drops while generating tempo quite often.

[jazzykat]

Considering Grim Lavamancer I don't feel he is that strong against Bant or Zoo. Sure he rocks Merfolk (tried im in the board for some time) but in general I don't think you should be running removal, such as Bolt in your maindeck. The biggest strength of this deck is that while any other control deck in the format runs removal and those cards are often suboptimal or even dead we run 4 Dreadnoughts while the rest of our deck is a blue shell geared towards winning attrition wars, counter battles and resolving our bombs (CB + Top, Standstill)...
Moreover we have a hell of a stable manabase while being very well capable of keeping our opponent off key land drops while generating tempo quite often.

Regarding Lavamancer:
I disagree especially on the Bant front. So, they play probably Noble Hierarch, Quasali Pridemage, maybe Vendillion Clique, Rhox Warmonk, and Tarmogoyf.

He single handedly mows down: Half their army. Not to mention kills the biggest threat to your dreadnought and combined with a bolt get's rid of Rhox and Goyf (most of the time). I'm not really sure I can agree with you here. He may not be as big a beating like vs. Merfolk but he makes quite a mess for the Bant player.

He also sneaks in before standstill on turn 1 and makes your opponent's aether vials much less relevant.

Vs. zoo he sorta lack luster but he still get's: lavamancer (if yours is first), steppe lynx, PRIDE MAGE, and other creatures that are pumped by land types if they don't have them. He also trades 1:1 with removal.

He also trashes goblins.

I play lightning bolt for 2 reasons: 1 to make a second turn standstill almost always a reality even if on the draw and 2 so I don't always have to FoW a first turn nacatl or lackey. It also get's Hierarch which falls into line with jamming Bant on mana development.

2. I look at it like a counter spell that I can play after the fact. Them first turn lackey, me on my turn play fetch. Burn out their lackey before damage...

It also gets rid of a resolved Pridemage

Also, Lightning Bolt is rarely dead. It may not be the nut high in a control deck but 3 damage to the face from a control deck really does force opponents to reconsider if they want to leave blockers or can profitably attack without getting to low on life. It is also the only pseudo out we have MD to a resolved Jace 2.0.

I'm not saying I'm doing the right thing, all that I'm saying is that I've adjusted my list so that I am seeing optimal results for me.

Please post your list as I'm fascinated that you've also been able to improve on Dreadstill in a different direction.

[Ozymandias]

So I've picked up 90% of the cards for this deck in the last 2-3 weeks, and I have the following as the rough skeleton of Dreadstill:

3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Volcanic Island
6 Blue fetches
4 Island

3 SDT
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill

4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Trinket Mage
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Engineered Explosives

That's 52 cards. The remaining 8, I guess, are made up of a combination of
a) enhanced Naught package with Trickbind and maybe an extra Mage
b) Enhanced Mage package with +1 Trinket, Crypt, Academy Ruins, and maybe other cogs
c) green splash for goyf and board Kgrip and the like
d) other color splashes for like SB perish and 3 EE counters
e) Anti-aggro packages containing lavamancer, bolt, more EE, and the like.
f) supplemental counters in the MD-spellstutter, snare, pierce
g) Bigger focus on abusing special lands with Crucible/4 factory etc.

Is there anything I missed from or too quickly included in the above skeleton before I start tweaking the deck for my specific meta and tastes?

[Wasteland]

+4 spell snare - no way to go with less then the complete 4 of them in this deck.

[Rood]

So I've picked up 90% of the cards for this deck in the last 2-3 weeks, and I have the following as the rough skeleton of Dreadstill:

3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Volcanic Island
6 Blue fetches
4 Island

3 SDT
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill

4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Trinket Mage
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Engineered Explosives

That's 52 cards. The remaining 8, I guess, are made up of a combination of
a) enhanced Naught package with Trickbind and maybe an extra Mage
b) Enhanced Mage package with +1 Trinket, Crypt, Academy Ruins, and maybe other cogs
c) green splash for goyf and board Kgrip and the like
d) other color splashes for like SB perish and 3 EE counters
e) Anti-aggro packages containing lavamancer, bolt, more EE, and the like.
f) supplemental counters in the MD-spellstutter, snare, pierce
g) Bigger focus on abusing special lands with Crucible/4 factory etc.

Is there anything I missed from or too quickly included in the above skeleton before I start tweaking the deck for my specific meta and tastes?

Remaining 8 would be
1 Island 1 Factory
3 Spell Snare
1 Dreadnought
2 Trickbind OR 1 Trickbind/1 Crucible

[sdematt]

I've actually been a fan of a one-of Vision Charm for the last little while. It makes my Islands into other stuff so I can block against Merfolk, it allows me to cheat Nought, allows Nought to dodge removal, mills 4 (in one game, it was relevant :P), and lets you phase Jitte out. Example, you can kill the Zoo/Fish/whatever player with a Nought, but he has a active Jitte with no counters to gain life. You can always phase it out so he swings with no Jitte, then you swing next turn. Again, it's proved useful more than once.

But, I must agree on a 4-of suite of either Spell Pierce or Spell Snare, or a mix of both. Snare has it's uses, countering Counterbalance/the format, whereas Spell Pierce can really be a kick in the pants as it's not expected.

-Matt

[sclabman]

Spell Snare is always my preference because of the multitude of Qasali Pridemage. Also: Goyf... the deck already has so many other counters for whatever Non-creature spell you need countering.

[Mr. Forsberg]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I have a few questions about the deck.

Has anyone considered splashing white for maindeck Swords to Plowshares instead of Lightning Bolts, and for good sideboard cards? If this has been considered, what are the reasons for sticking to the red splash?

Also, how do you guys like Trinket Mage? I feel that he is very slow, and almost never cast him. Most of the time he serves as Force of Will fodder, and I seem to sideboard him out almost every game.

[Yochanan]

Also, how do you guys like Trinket Mage? I feel that he is very slow, and almost never cast him. Most of the time he serves as Force of Will fodder, and I seem to sideboard him out almost every game.

I actually don't run Trinket Mage in my dreadstill unless I can use him as a toolbox for Relic, Pithing Needle, Engineered Explosives, Sensei's Divining Top etc. He's not an auto-include for me by any means. However, almost 90% of dreadstill decks I've seen run him.

[sclabman]

I was playing Dreadstill last night on MWS and got repeatedly raped by a Ugb Landstill deck with Jace. It might have been really late and I may have been really tired, but: Every card in that deck seems to completely destroy our strategy. Pernicious deed gets thrown out and just waits for any permanent to land, Jace comes out and starts fatesealing, extirpate, diabolic edict, krosan grip, EE... The matchup seemed completely hopeless unless you can get a turn two Dreadnought with double force backup.

[Van Phanel]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I have a few questions about the deck.

Has anyone considered splashing white for maindeck Swords to Plowshares instead of Lightning Bolts, and for good sideboard cards? If this has been considered, what are the reasons for sticking to the red splash?

Red Elemental Blast is the best colored sideboard card in the format, closely followed by Perish. With the White-Splash you'll be losing quite some games to Jace TMS. Bolt and REB help there. Also Firespout /Rolling Earthquake is definitely necessary against Merfolk. Which would be the good sideboard cards that you suggest?

Also, how do you guys like Trinket Mage? I feel that he is very slow, and almost never cast him. Most of the time he serves as Force of Will fodder, and I seem to sideboard him out almost every game.

You're doing something wrong, sorry. Trinket Mage is an additional way to get a Top and you always want a Top in play. Also the singleton EE maindeck is amazing and wouldn't be of much good without Trinket Mage. Preboard he also functions as Dreadnought 5-7 while giving you the option to board out some Noughts without losing the ability to find one fast if you need to finish the game. Add the bonus of getting graveyardremoval and you're set.


Also I felt that whenever I lose with Dreadstill, it is to a deck that plays manadenial. In the three big tournaments I Top8ed in May, I lost to Merfolk, Tempo Thresh, Merfolk and New Horizons while winning 22 other matches (one actual draw, 4 IDs). Admittedly I lost one Merfolk matchup to not finding Stifle/Trickbind in 5 or finding Bolt/REB in 10 cards and not to manaproblems, but the other three losses were to their manadenial. In those tournaments I only won one match against a deck with manadenial (New Horizons) and drew another one against lands.

I don't actually believe that the manabase is as strong against landhate as people believe because of the common misconception that Basiclands help against manadenial. In fact playing more Basics makes it morelikely to get screwed by a single Waste or Stifle. However I don't see how we could improve that, because actually playing a mountain is out of the question.

[P-AiR]

Been reading quite a bit of this thread (over 100 pages) but the amount of information retained is questionable.

My current decklist looks similar to most of yours, I'm sure of it.

But please let me know if there's anything you would recommend me changing:

Creatures
3*Trinket Mage
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Spells
4*Brainstorm
3*Daze
4*Force of Will
4*Spell Snare
4*Stifle
2*Trickbind

Enchantments
3*Counterbalance
4*Standstill

Artifacts
1*Engineered Explosives
3*Sensei's Divining Top

Lands
2 Misty Rainforest
4*Island
4*Mishra's Factory
4*Scalding Tarn
1*Underground Sea
3*Volcanic Island
3*Wasteland

Sideboard
3*Lightning Bolt
3*Red Elemental Blast
2*Firespout
2*Perish
1*Crucible of Worlds
1*Engineered Explosives
2*Relic of Progenitus
1*Tormod's Crypt

Seen a variation of 4 dazes 3 spell snares vs. 3 dazes 4 spell snares on the board, which do you recommend on an aggro-fested meta?

Tried Grim Lavamancers on MWS, had mixed feelings about it. Never tried pairing the Basilisk Collar with it yet but it's definitely a deadly option that from afar looks too slow to pull off.

1 Underground sea, is it enough for 2 perishes in the side? The sea looks like a great Wasteland target. Would you recommend a 2/2 split between the volcanic and underground? Or simply just knock off an island to add an additional sea?

[Julian23]

Most deck you'd want Perish against don't run Wastelands afaik - with the notable exception of New Horizons. Also, don't fetch it if you don't need it right away.

[Elvish-Champion]

Hey guys,

last two weekends I played with a list of "Muradin" in two different tournaments and did very well.
They were both with about 20-30 players and in the first, I did the first place, and in the second I did only place three because of a bad opponent score.

The list:

Main:

Lands//20
4 Wasteland
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Academy Ruins

Creatures//7
3 Trinket Mage
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Spells//33
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Predict
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Spell Snare
3 Daze
1 Engineered Explosives

Sideboard:

1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Firespout
3 Pyroblast
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Perish
2 Submerge
1 Etched Oracle(Only fun card, maybe I should have played 1 Tormod’s Crypt instead of it)


The tournament with a 4-0-1 results:

Round 1:

Against BGw Rock:
Dice: I win and start
Game 1:
Very unspectacular game, I start with Seinsei’s, second Turn Dreadnought, Stifle and he surrenders after I forced his Swords to Plowshares.
- 3 Dreadnought
+ 2 Jace
+ 1 Etched Oracle


Game 2:

He starts with land and passes. I go Sensei’s, he land again and pass again. I do Counterbalance and he seemed to be very pissed. He tried Pernicious Deed, I try Counterbalance, hit a Wasteland and let the Deed resolve. In my upkeep I play Predict on Wasteland, put land and pass. He plays land and tries a harmonize. I decided to resolve it, I anticipated a Witness anyway(I already saw a green creature on his hand because he hold it not that good :D ).
He draws and passes. I looked into seinsei’s in upkeep and saw trinket mage the second Jace(already got one in Hand) and the one Dreadnought. I decided to draw the second Jace. I put Academy Ruins and passed. He tries to kill my CB I Stifle and he put Witness as well, I revealed the Mage and he passed. I played the first Jace and brainstormed. In his Turn he did Grip and I was that good that I didn’t put Trinket on top, well Counterbalance gone and he goes for a Deed. I let it resolve it wasn’t dangerous in this situation, he recognized it as well. : )
End of his turn I top, do predict on my Dreadnought and put it on top, because I saw a stifle and a Trickbind as well.
I Put Dreadnought and pass, in his turn he tries to kill it, I Trickbind, he tries Tarmogoyf, I Spell Snare and he harmonizes. I still didn’t had a Daze, what a bother. I let it resolve, I was sure he won’t can put a Deed without getting it back with Witness. I attack, Brainstorm with Jace and pass. He draws did Witness, I let resolve, he targets Deed, he tries Deed, I Force, Game!
1-0-0 2-0

Round 2:
Spring Tide
Dice: He wins
Only to warn you, this Match didn’t lasted more than 5 minutes.
Game 1 and 2:

He started with Ponder or Brainstorm, I always did first round Senseis, second round Counterbalance with Force Backup, he always surrendered, I didn’t know why, he still could have won via Cunning wish on Wipe Away or so.
2-0-0 4-0

Round 3:
Stupid Burn with Hellspark Elemental and Sulfuric Vortex in Main.

Game 1/2:
Also not very amazing, he is both games flooded, nearly kills me with Vortex, but I race faster with Dreadnought.
3-0-0 6-0

Round 4 against Marius Hausmann with Enchantress.
Dice: I win

Game 1:
Marius is a friend of me so we didn’t take this match so serious and talked a lot of shit while playing of course :P.
I luck the second Turn Dreadnought with Force and pitchcard backup, he surrenders.
- 3 Daze
+ 2 Jace
+ 1 Engineered Explosives


Game 2:

He started with Wild Growth many hate and I only put EE on 2 and 3 and jace.
I was outtapped, he put aura of silence and forgot it to use on my EE on 3. I blast away 1 City of solitude, 2 Choke and in my turn 3 more enchantments with the other Explosives. In his next 2 Turns he tries 1 Replenish each and one resolves, Game.

Game 3:

This game was funny because Predict won the game. There were many counters on my Side (2 Force 3 Spell Snare) and many Things on his side. He only had 1 card in hand remaining, a sterling grove.
I know, I could have won against a Moat which got discarded by my Predict, but the game would have taken longer if I didn’t discard it. In my Predict there were Dreadnought and Stifle, funny draw, and funny win :D .

4-0-0 8-1


Last Round against Survival:

Dice: I Win

Game 1:

I put Island go, he tries Windswept Heath, I stifle. Second Turn Dreadnought, He puts Forest Top, I hit, he looks in Top upkeep, no land and game.

Game 2:

I was a bit pissed in this game because he draw so fucking awesome that I couldn’t win. It was like, 2 Krosan Grip for my Balances, 2 Deeds, 3 Survivals and 2 Witnesses….

Game 3:

I started with Counterbalance second turn, he Krosan Grips and did a lot of Surival Witness and so on. I countered all Survivals and got beaten by the Witnesses of about 3 life until I found an EE to blast this and 2 Deeds away. I also got an Academy which won the game. He put a new Survival from the top, and a veteran Explorer. I put EE on top and blast his survival away. He attacks with his Explorer and tries to play Witness again. I got the Force and went on 1 life. Upkeep EE on top and blasted the Explorer away. If he would find a creature I would have lost this probably, but I was lucky and he put land. I did Trinket mage and look into top, Force Jace and Predict. I take the Jace and play him. He draw some lands, I put my Jace higher, we went in time and it was a draw with one card in his library left.

4-0-1 9-2-1


All in all I was very satisfied with the deck, it did well and especially Predict is a better card in many situations than Standstill.

[Ozymandias]

So I put this deck together, basically card-for-carding Simon Ritzka's 2nd place BoM list, except I cut a volc for Wasteland 4, and let me tell you this deck is the stones. It's probably the most complicated deck I have ever seen, if only because there's so much stuff to do

. I was wondering about some of the boarding. Generally, unless Naiught is excellent in the matchup (Like Fish or combo) I shave 1-2 trickbinds and a Naiught, and then for like Zoo I cut Forces and a Standtill, for Fish Standstill, and CB, for Dredge Standstill, and I bring in all the concievably good cards-and let me tell you, REB practically crushes the format. Any comments on what cards are good and bad in various matchups?

[Ozymandias]

Oh, also, postboard, on the draw, would you keep 2x waste, 2x stifle, 3x fetchland vs. Zoo on a mull to 6?

[Wasteland]

Ähm, mulligan?^^

[sdematt]

That's a pretty risky hand. It depends if you were playing first or not. If you were playing first, I'd keep it. If I were down a game, I might throw it away. But, Zoo is land light, so if you stifle their first fetch, waste their second land and their third land, you should be fine. Plus, Wild Nacatl isn't a threat if he's a 1/1 :P

-Matt

[keys]

Is no one playing the U/g/r version anymore? Back when I played this deck, Goyf fit too perfectly with the strategy to leave out. Naught and Standstill make him a 6/7 very often, and I always found Naught to be too fragile as the only threat. Jace helps I suppose.