[Deck] 43 Lands

[Valtrix]

Yeah. More specifically you use the ports to activate both factories first. Then attack with both factories and use the three mazes on one to get one +1/+1 activation, and then the other two to get mana to activate explosives before blockers.

EDIT: Too slow, oh well.

[partyx2000]

Hey guys,

A friend of mine is giving up magic (for good this time) and has given me a Tabernacle so I'm going to attempt to make and play a lands deck.

So this is the projected deck list I have in mind, please advise me of any changes that would benefit the deck.

42 Lands

Land - 42

1 Bojuka Bog
2 Barbarian Ring
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Nomad Stadium
4 Rishadan Port
1 Savannah
3 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Tranquil Thicket
1 Treetop Village
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Forest

Artifact - 5

2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Mox Diamond

Enchantment - 9

1 Mana Breach
4 Exploration
4 Manabond

Sorcery - 4

4 Life from the Loam


So this is my projected deck... Does anyone see any major drama's within the deck? Should I make any changes?


Cheers

[Shawon]

Here are some quick changes:

-1 Nomad Stadium (Zuran Orb is better)
-1 Mana Breach (Interesting idea, but it doesn't win the game and it can't come back from the grave)
-1 Crucible of Worlds (one is good enough as a backup to Loam)
-1 Barbarian Ring (if you can win with Ring recursions, then having two is win-more)
-2 Taiga

+1 Zuran Orb (MD Orb helps you win those g1s against Zoo or even Burn)
+1 Mox Diamond (run 4)
+4 Intuition (you need ways to find Loam and win the game when you already have Loam)

[Tao]

I would say that you should try to explain why you do not play the successful standard list with Tolaria West, Intuition and Mindslaver. For example explain why you think you don't need Intuitions. Are you planning to Mulligan every hand without Loam? Why the White Splash for just a singleton Monastery? How will you win without Mindslaver if the opponent puts up some defense and doesn't scoop right away?

For the start I would just advice you to try the standard list and test with it a ton.

[iostream]

Hi. I'm just starting to get familiar with this deck, and I've been reading some of the old posts in this thread. I have a pretty novice question, though, that doesn't seem like it's answered:

In the recent SCG Open in Dallas, the runner-up played a lands deck that had 4 Leyline of the Void in the sideboard. Why doesn't this just automatically cause you to lose (since it takes the Loam engine totally offline?)

[lordofthepit]

In the recent SCG Open in Dallas, the runner-up played a lands deck that had 4 Leyline of the Void in the sideboard. Why doesn't this just automatically cause you to lose (since it takes the Loam engine totally offline?)

Read Leyline again carefully and you'll have your answer. =)

[iostream]

awesome

i am totally literate, guys

i swear

[iostream]

a few observations, suggesting a possible idea:

1) tolaria west is really good despite the fact that it's naively a crappy island because it has transmute. 0 cmc cards = most of the deck.

2) lots of other spells we might like to play are 2 cmc cards. life from the loam is an obvious one, but some older builds used burning wish to get more loams, and living wish has been tossed around by a few people for obvious reasons. some other 2 cmc cards, like devastating dreams, ethersworn canonist, or sphere of resistance could save our asses if we can't set up the lockdown quickly enough.

3) ANT and reanimator, two of lands' worst matchups, rely on instants and sorceries to deal the killing blow. The most potent hate cards against lands - price of progress and extirpate - are also instants.

so, the suggested idea is running muddle the mixture.

sorry if this seems stupid; just throwing an idea out there.

[Joon]

I don't think adding Muddle the Mixture would help, as one lousy Counterspell won't stop Storm or Reanimator from going off/reanimating a fat bitch with Shroud. If you want extra tutors for Life from the Loam I suggest you try Gamble. I like it as a small Intuition, as it can search for the one-off Artifacts too if you have Academy Ruins on the field. I'm liking it so far.

Do you guys run Graveyard in the main? Especially with Bojuka Bog it seems nice to have access to it G1 as Bog can provide mana or help to ramp EE higher (which is difficult when you have no Mox).

[That nice guy]

Hey guys,

I run scapeshift lands and need your opinions badly.

Which is a better 3 cards

Originally I had 3 crop rotation 1 bog due to my huge fear of reanimator, but now reanimator took a hit and I have another tabernacle at my disposal so I only run 2 rotates. So the question is whether rotate is still worth it as a tutor/grave-hate in a deck with manabond?

The alternatives are;

1. 3 Mox diamond (to speed things up and put ray of revelation in the SB) (also makes B2B and moon less harmful

2. 1 Stomping ground 1 burgeoning/manabond 1 Karakas/thicket (for less muligans and more turn 1 G/R mana)(this choice is about consistency)

3. +4 burning wish +1 gamble(maken 4), -1 Scapeshift, loam, bog

4. Or should I stick with 1 bog 2 crop rotation

Please cast your votes everyone!

[proraptor]

I was thinking of maybe replacing tranquil thicket for jace, the mindsculptor. I know that it's a little bit out there, but if you think about it tutoring Jace issen't a real problem if you got 3 in main deck with 4 intuitions and a cephalid coliseum.
The pros and cons of jace:
You have a better dredge engine and card advantage, Jace can totally lock down an enemy with his first ability for instants removing the opponents mana draw. You have a good spot removal and you can use Jace as an alternative or even your main kill.
The cons are of course it's a non-land card and you can't use it as an instant, also it can be countered and cost 2UU!
Did anybody playtest this already or something like this?

[Tao]

You guys won't stop until every deck has 4 Goyf and 3 Jace right ;)

On a serious note, the idea is not bad but I think that the deck cannot afford any more nonland spells. 4 Exploration, 4 Manabond, 4 Mox Diamond, 4 Loam, 4 Intuition + Artifact Intuition targets are already lowering the land number quite a lot and I don't see a possibility to cut any of these without losing the needed speed and consistency. Also Jace is not protected by Glacial Chasm, which makes it impossible to play him.

[neon_havoc]

I was thinking of maybe replacing tranquil thicket for jace, the mindsculptor. I know that it's a little bit out there, but if you think about it tutoring Jace issen't a real problem if you got 3 in main deck with 4 intuitions and a cephalid coliseum.
The pros and cons of jace:
You have a better dredge engine and card advantage, Jace can totally lock down an enemy with his first ability for instants removing the opponents mana draw. You have a good spot removal and you can use Jace as an alternative or even your main kill.
The cons are of course it's a non-land card and you can't use it as an instant, also it can be countered and cost 2UU!
Did anybody playtest this already or something like this?

umm..excuse me?

[zuzy]

Hallo all,

I really like this deck, but after the banning the Mystical Tutor and weakening our worst matchups I am thinkink how to build the deck.

The mainboard is from the biggest part known, but I am not sure with the toolbox bof artefacts. Here are my current dilemas:

Mindslaver VS Smokestack VS 2nd EE

In about 30 games I didnt play the Slaver. What deck is the Slaver good against? I had just one possibility to play Slaver, but 2nd EE would do the same job, but muchfaster, than stealing turns.

Nantuko Monastery

In MD I have 1 Savannah for SB Cannonist against combo. That is why I added the Nantuko to speed up things. But I think to take it out, because of the banning. What colour should I add? Red or Black?

Smokestack

If I can lock the oponent fast enought, than I am able to kill him with the smokestack. It is also killing the Maguses, Back to Basics or Blood Moons.

2nd Engineered Explosives

In the upcoming metagame I think, that 2nd EE are good idea.

Zuran Orb

Thinking about it.

Ensnaring Bridge

In the current meta without Reanimator is not needed.

Do you have any other ideas and thoughts for that? Is the Black splash for Confidants and Meloku/Stronghold worth for?

Regards
ZUZY

[iostream]

1) Regarding slaver vs. EE vs. stack: What good does having a second EE do if you can always recur the singleton through Academy Ruins? Mindslaver is a good card against Fish and slower control decks. You can often - but not always - bust through with 2/2's.

2) Nantuko Monastery: I think this card is superfluous. Once the lock is set, speed is no issue. Before then, Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Terravore, and many other efficient creatures do not care about Monastery.

3) I am similarly conflicted about smokestack. It feels like a "win more" card - it is slow, since we don't run any of the acceleration that regular Stax decks pack; if we can really wait long enough for stack to go online and get enough counters to be effective, we are probably in control anyway. However, it is one our our precious few solutions against blood moons, etc. I think Riftstone Portal might be a better response to that, though.

4) Zuran Orb saves your ass against Zoo. It is definitely a maindeck necessity in the post-ANT/Reanimator meta.

5) Ensnaring Bridge is awesome against new horizons, as all their creatures quickly become huge after a few turns.

However, I agree with the general concern about the maindeck artifact toolbox. Post-sideboard, when grave hate gets thrown in our faces, we need to consider playing some of these artifacts as more than one-ofs. Here are some candidates:

1) Chalice of the Void is a pretty good candidate for a 4-of in the SB, as a turn 1 Chalice for 0 shuts down Tormod's Crypt (as well as the engines in really annoying decks like Spanish Inquisition). Chalice for 1 deals with extirpate.

2) Damping Matrix straight up takes care of Knights of the Reliquary, Sensei's Divining Top, Tormod's Crypt, and many other annoyances. It also is better than Null Rod in our deck because it doesn't shut down our Moxen.

3) Crucible of Worlds may be a good response to disruption of the Loam engine.

Any further ideas?

[mchainmail]

Mindslaver is a concession to tournament play. It's basically the fastest win condition you can put in the deck that fits the plan.

Nantuko Monestary needs threshold (yes, this is often an issue early) and we rarely win by beating down. I beat down once all tournament.

Smokestack is a great card post-board, as we run more permanents than every deck besides Stax, and our Loam engine is better than their CA engine. (We can be card-neutral with stax at 3)

2nd EE: Explain why you want it.

Zuran Orb: The only way to beat Price of Progress from Zoo, generally.

Ensnaring Bridge is a really hard permanent for a lot of decks to answer, which is why I like it MD. If they don't have EE/Pridemage, it basically locks them out. If they do have EE, you can sometimes mana denial them from hitting 3 lands.



-----------------------------------


I went 3-0 and ended up 3-3-1 yesterday at a 70 person tournament (feeling sick the whole day)

My sideboard:

2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Smokestack
1 Academy Ruins
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grips
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas

Basically, it makes Intuition dirty post-board. There is already tabernacle and academy maindecked, but the redundancy is necessary against hate.

I've had Loam Extirpated once, but I don't even care; I can win with Crucible and Smokestack in any sort of control matchup.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Chalice is good, I have 4 of them right now, but I'm beginning to think that it may not be the answer anymore. There is a lot of scenarios where multiple cards will work in the same scenario. 4 chalices opposed to 1 Chalice may have he same effect in the long run, since Tolaria West can find you the chalice for 0. Chalice for 0 also doesn't Autowin the Combo matchup. Needle can save you against relics and such, and Crucible is your audible to when they extirpate your Loam.

Orb belongs in the Mainboard, as well as the SB, for the Zoo Matchup.After testing for months, the Sideboard I have concluded up til now for GP Columbus is

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
3 Firespout
1 Mindslaver
1 Smokestacks
1 Tormods Crypt
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge

@ iostream
Smokestacks is a very good card against a lot of decks. I Believe that it is not win more, its simply win - scenarios:

Goblins
Mirror Match
Bant/NO Bant/Horizons
Enchantress
Stax
Reanimator

Damping Matrix shuts down Mindslaver, EE, Orb, Crypt, and Factory tricks with the Mazes. I dont think that is a good card to think about SB'ing in the deck.

I think Crucible Belongs in the MD.

@ zuzy

Monastery revolves around having Threshold, which can be difficult game 1 and game 2. If you're considering a card like this, I think That new land from WWK (Stirring Wild-wood?) would be a good Replacement (even though I Don't run it).

Don't Count out Reanimator - It's still there.

2 EE's vs 1 is going to yield the same results - Play 1

[mchainmail]

Chalice is good, I have 4 of them right now, but I'm beginning to think that it may not be the answer anymore. There is a lot of scenarios where multiple cards will work in the same scenario. 4 chalices opposed to 1 Chalice may have he same effect in the long run, since Tolaria West can find you the chalice for 0. Chalice for 0 also doesn't Autowin the Combo matchup. Needle can save you against relics and such, and Crucible is your audible to when they extirpate your Loam.

Orb belongs in the Mainboard, as well as the SB, for the Zoo Matchup.After testing for months, the Sideboard I have concluded up til now for GP Columbus is

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
3 Firespout
1 Mindslaver
1 Smokestacks
1 Tormods Crypt
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge

@ iostream
Smokestacks is a very good card against a lot of decks. I Believe that it is not win more, its simply win - scenarios:

Goblins
Mirror Match
Bant/NO Bant/Horizons
Enchantress
Stax
Reanimator

Damping Matrix shuts down Mindslaver, EE, Orb, Crypt, and Factory tricks with the Mazes. I dont think that is a good card to think about SB'ing in the deck.

I think Crucible Belongs in the MD.

@ zuzy

Monastery revolves around having Threshold, which can be difficult game 1 and game 2. If you're considering a card like this, I think That new land from WWK (Stirring Wild-wood?) would be a good Replacement (even though I Don't run it).

Don't Count out Reanimator - It's still there.

2 EE's vs 1 is going to yield the same results - Play 1

Have you played the combo matchup???????????????????????????

You go 50-50 game 2, after boarding in 2 sphere of resistance and 4 chalice of the void. Let alone what happens game 3 when they're on the play.

You simply don't have the clock or lock pieces to make the game close, and devoting chalices to the combo matchup feels like a horrid waste of sideboard space.

Why is Mindslaver in the sideboard? Firespout?

Crucible absolutely does NOT belong maindeck. It beats the hate, yes. And beating hate game 1 is wasted space.

Post your maindeck too; sideboarded singletons depend on the maindeck a lot.

[iostream]

Have you played the combo matchup???????????????????????????

You go 50-50 game 2, after boarding in 2 sphere of resistance and 4 chalice of the void. Let alone what happens game 3 when they're on the play.

You simply don't have the clock or lock pieces to make the game close, and devoting chalices to the combo matchup feels like a horrid waste of sideboard space.

Is the implication that we should just accept 0-2 match losses against combo?

But more importantly, Chalice does things besides disrupt combo. It denies countertop their tops, shuts down crypts, and denies fish and goblins their vials, among other things. It may very well be a bad sideboard card, but not because it's only relevant against combo...

[Valtrix]

It seems to me that the new leyline of sanctity is a much better sideboard card than chalice (well, maybe you want 1 chalice still, but different story). It stops the reach that zoo has, until they get removal for the leyline. Additionally it prevents combo from going anything but the empty the warrens route or finding hate. Tabernacle slows them down a lot, and with the mana denial lands has you can make it hard for them to actually play their hate. Additionally, it shuts down their duresses. Likewise, it's also useful against walkers like Jace, since he won't be able to target you until the leyline is removed. It also shuts down crypt, wheel, bojuka bog, relic's tap ability, and ravenous trap as GY hate. Pretty much everything but relic. There's a little trouble reaching WW if you want to hardcast it, so if that was a concern it might want to be addressed, but the leyline seems to do a lot more than chalice in my opinion. The main downside is you can't tolaria west for it, but if that was very relevant it'd still be very easy to run 1.