Yeah, I should have mentioned that I board in Ajani Golmane in this Matchup. I do play 2 of those in my Sideboard for Zoo or Random Burndecks and I never had problem to summon this powerhouse. Once he lands on board, I easily win. My Manabase looks like this:Originally Posted by Jason
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
11-12 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Tundra
1 Plateau
1 Mountain
0-1 Academy Ruins
Having 3 White Sources I never had Problems casting Ajani even when the Zoo Player got some Wastelands (fetching on the dual when you want to cast him).
I felt it always nevessary to have some Lifegain in the Sideboard because I pack it with hate for the popular and strongest decks in the format/metagame. And since I play this dude I never lost a game against Zoo players. I can only suggest playing him when you are already splashing White in this deck. Sometimes he is Win-more, but most of the time it's just great to put him into play and win "instantly".
Thanks for the answers, I will test those Pierces
I actually think you're correct (Tepesh) in that I should run W over G. Swords is definitely a better splash than hitting flyers with my Firespouts. So I'm curious if I should put the StPs in the side or try to find room in the main? My list is on the previous page if anyone could help me out. All I know so far is -1 Trop, -1 Forest, -3 Misty Rainforest, -4 x in the side or main for +1 Plains, +1 Tundra, +3 Flooded Strand, +4 StP side or main.
And yeah, my meta is heavily aggro because we don't have a very strong prize payout, so people just play what is fun for them. So it's a lot of Zoo and Bant Aggro and such.
Okay, well I made the executive decision to drop 2 Jace and 2 Repeal for those StP. So my new list looks like this:
4 Brainstorm
3 FoF
4 Counterspell
4 FoW
3 Snare
4 EE
4 StP
4 Shackles
3 Relic
1 Sphinx
2 Jace TMS
1 Academy Ruins
3 Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Tundra
1 Volc Island
13 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
//60
4 Spell Pierce
4 Firespout
3 Crypt
2 Prop
2 B2B
//15
I think I may end up regretting not having Repeal or Cryptic Command for the versatility they offer. I have A LOT of creature removal because that's what my meta consists of. I think one person plays Dredge or Reanimator and less than half the time because they think it's boring. Nobody plays ANT for the same reason and I'm not sure how that match up breaks down for us now that M.Tutor is banned anyways.
I can efficiently handle any aggro deck, but I feel I dont have enough bombs anymore that swing tempo my way. FoF is obviously a bomb, but it doesn't control the board like a Cryptic Command or Jace TMS (which I want 4, but > $200 for a playset, come on!). Whoever has been saying to not protect Jace is right. He is great, and he should be in every MUC list, but don't waste your counters keeping him alive. That's why I want more copies of him because he's a must answer, unlike Shackles. And at this point in the game most people have lost to Jace at least once, so they look at him as a huge threat.
And guys, stop recommending splash cards with double color requirements, like Elspeth or Moat. You're in the wrong forum for that.
Also, I have 6 anti-gy cards because I want to take this to a big tournament and I think they'll be more necessary there, even if they are just okay for my meta (which isn't great, but does have some Lands and stuff that they are worth bringing in)
I like your list - there are just a few changes that I'd employ here:
-2 Island
+1 Flooded Strand
+1 Arid Mesa
And I'd probably replace the Relics with:
3x Firespout
..given Aggro will flourish now that combo has gotten worse.
Playing 3 in the MD opens 4 SB slots, too - as for gy hate I'd go with 3x Relic 3x Faerie Macabre (way to go against Thopter-Foundry, explosive Dredge starts and still not dead against many other gy-based strategies)
So that leaves you with 1 addtional SB slot, which could easily be 1 Enlightened Tutor, grabbing the missing piece for the Propaganda/B2B lock or Relic.
For fast aggro metas Propaganda and that extra slot could be 3 Path to Exile
Also: I don't think Sphinx is needed - Jace wins games, too, only at a cheaper cost.
so -1/+1
So I tried to mash this deck's strengths (solid manabase with B2B, Vedalken Shackles) with the Counter-Top decks' ability to stop storm combo and , more quickly manipulate the library. Here is what I came up with:
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Daze
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Vedalken Shackles
3 Back to Basics
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Powder Keg
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Brainstorm
9 Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Forest
SB: 4 Lightning Bolt
2 Firespout
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Spell Pierce
I played it at a tourney on Sunday, and went a disappointing 2-3, beating Merfolk and 43 lands, and losing to Reanimator, Hypergenesis (Counterbalance was not nearly as helpful as it could have been and NO Elves (my own damn fault, mis-countered a spell). Any thoughts as to how I could better the sideboard against really quick combo, etc? I'm limited to only being able to splash red by card availability, but I'm open to suggestions for acquisitions.
COUNTERBALANCE IS USELESS IN MUC!!! It forces you to either reduce your curve significantly, giving up your most powerful spells, and doesn't work well or just keep the expensive spells in and have it do nothing.
As good as Jace is (I`d play 4 copies), you need an alternative win condition against Extirpate shenanigans (or the sort), either Sphinx of Jwar Isle or Morphling.
The first thing you should do is cutting those Balances and Dazes for Jaces, Spell Snares and Lands. 21 can't be enough even with 4 BS and 3 Top.
Which decks are the mostplayed in your meta? Are there a lot of Reanimator and Dredgedecks? Because I think 5 Slots are too much. I would add 1 Firespout in the Sideboard.
Though I think you won't find any wothy red combohate cards. Spell Pierce should do this. Maybe in combination with Chalies like Jason does.
And it would be great how you managed to win agaainst the Merfolk guy, thanks.
Game 1 I forced his vial, stole Reejeries with Shackles, and managed to beat him down before he drew out. Game 2 I just got islandwalked over when I couldn't find red mana, and game 3 I stole LOA and Kegged/Bolted his dudes.
Pyrostatic Pillar could work, but Pierce is superior in my opinion.
I played this list at the GP, going 2-3-0 before dropping. Honestly, I was in contention every single game, but luck was never on my side. No game was a blow out.
4 Strand
3 Tarn
1 Volc Island
1 Tundra
12 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Academy Ruins
4 Jace TMS
1 Sphinx
4 Brainstorm
2 FoF
4 EE
4 StP
3 Shackles
2 Firespout
1 B2B
4 FoW
4 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
//60
4 Hydroblast
4 Spell Pierce
2 Firespout
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Prog
2 Sower of Temptation
Round 1
was Goblins and despite having 4 Firespout, 4 StP, 4 Hydros, 3 Shackles for games 2 and 3, I somehow lost. This was the beginning of my bad luck. I won G1 by EE at 1 taking out Vial + Lackey and countering his relevant Goblins, namely Warchief and Ringleader. He got a Chieftain to resolve but I won with Sphinx beatdown. G2 and G3 were basically me mulling to 5 and 4, respectively without finding a single Hydro or Firespout. I hated my life when I lost this match.
0-1-0
Round 2
G1, I played some stupid homebrew with SHARED FATE! I didn't have a counter for it after all his Thoughtseize and garbage and it resolved. This was after I Jace ultimated him and so I was incapable of drawing cards the rest of the match. I wish I had Repeal or Cryptic Command so I could have bounced that shit and he would have lost the next turn. I mean this is GP FUCKING COLUMBUS AND YOU'RE USING SHARED FATE?! Jump off a bridge, tubby.
G2, He cast 2 Doomsday, the second one resolved with a Shelldock Isle in play, hiding Emrakul. That's all she wrote. I don't know what the deck was, but when I get matched up against trash like that, I just don't wanna play the game.
0-2-0
Round 3
This guy played a deck with 30 Counterspells and 4 trashy creatures, one of which was Visara (lol). Basically I blow this guy out despite the match almost going to time because we both played such slow decks.
1-2-0
Round 4
Some kid who decided to play the morning of the tournament. His deck was a joke. He had to read every card I played. Anyways, he was also playing mono blue, but I can't tell you how it won. He resolved an Eternity Vessel at 20 life game 1, so I had to Jace ultimate him, but no problem.
2-2-0
Round 5
I finally play an established deck for the first time since round 1. The guy was playing Thopter Foundry and I lost g1 quickly by not stopping a swarm of 1/1 flyers.
G2, I Jace ultimate him, but the turn before I do that, he draws the single Academy Ruins in his deck. LUCK SACK! He survives by using it every turn and getting to bring back his combo which was countered every time he tried it. If i drew my A. Ruins, Tormod's, or Relic, I would have won this game. But I didn't because I was having horrible luck this tournament. So he won with no cards in his library and I dropped after this match.
Overall, I'd say the weekend was terrible. I couldn't catch any breaks, and my deck would have been solid against most the established decks, but I got paired up against hardly any. All aggro should have been my bitch, but drawing 5-6 lands in a row vs. Goblins made me lose. Screw my luck, seriously.
I'm not playing this deck again because I have such a bitter taste in my mouth after the GP.
Fuck.
Something resembling (sounds like the same/similar deck) this 'trash' ended up in the top 8 my friend! You need to just relax - innovation isn't a bad thing, surely...
You did have some bad beats though, no doubt.
Simmer down there, buddy. You really should stop trying to explain to these kettles how black they are. Your MUC list is very different from the norm and seems to have confused priorities. You have good countermagic and removal, but no way to take advantage of it. You have one non-tutorable lock piece, and 5 turn clock that comes down turn 4 at the earliest that is dead in multiples. They, on the other hand, just start playing creatures again.
I really don't mean to flame, but your deck really looks like a confused mess and that is evidenced by it dropping games to decks MUC should prey upon, random jank.
I played in the GP with a pretty standard list and went 4-3 I lost to blecher, UBG landstill and Burn. Luck was just not on my side for the day. I won against belcher, goblins, reanimator, and rw slide. Jace and Back to basics where the MVP of the deck. Sadly I couldn't draw a B2B to save my life against the Landstill player and the double Force he had for my Jace didn't help matters out. The Belcher player I lost to was able to get a turn 1 kill each game. The burn player sadly just burned me out the third game before I could get Jace online. My side was:
1 Relic
2 Crypt
4 Threads
2 Sowers
2 Blasts
3 Stifle
1 Back to Basics
Sadly I didn't see any zoo decks the whole day, since my side is more geared towards them. The side is the only thing I would have changed since it is so heavily against zoo. I do plan on taking my deck to gen con, but with a few sideboard changes that I am not 100% on.
Not exactly true... I sometimes have trouble against jank like Vial-less Wizards and that's about as random as a deck can get
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
I played this weekend in the SCG Baltimore Open with B&BBS. I played my list:
Land (24)
1 Academy Ruins
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island
12 Snow-Covered Island
1 Mountain
Artifact (5)
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Vedalken Shackles
Blue Creature (2)
2 Calcite Snapper
Blue Enchantment (3)
3 Back to Basics
Blue Instant (20)
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
Red Instant (4)
4 Lightning Bolt
Blue Planeswalker (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard (15)
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sower of Temptation
3 Spell Pierce
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
Round 1 Craig Buwala - BELCHER
Game 1, he leads off with an exiled ESG. Yeah for Force of Will, baby! He goes Rite of Flame into Manamorphose into Seething Song. He has no mana floating so I Force it. He passes. A couple turns later, he casts Land Grant revealing Burning Wish x3, Belcher x2, SSG and LED. I take this opportunity to cast Jace on my next turn and keep him from drawing relevant cards.
SB:
-3 Back to Basics
-1 Cryptic Command
-1 Fact or Fiction
-3 Vedalken Shackles
+3 Spell Pierce
+2 Firespout
+3 Chalice of the Void
Game 2, I keep a good hand if he doesn't go for turn 1 (as I have at least 3 lands, double Spell Pierce and a Counterspell) he plays a land and passes the turn. I rip a Chalice of the Void off the top, set it at zero and proceed to play draw-go until I find a second Chalice and set it at 1. He scoops.
1-0-0
Round 2 Kemper Pogue - MERFOLK
Game 1, He leads off with turn 1 Aether Vial. I respond with turn 1 EE which doesn't get countered. I blow it up on my turn 2. After that, I don't remember too much of what happened. I remember it involved me drawing both my Volcanic Islands and my Academy Ruins, all of which were Wastelanded and being stuck on 3 lands being poked out by Cursecatcher and Silvergill Adept.
SB:
-3 Back to Basics
-2 Counterspell
-1 Cryptic Command
-1 Fact or Fiction
+2 Sower of Temptation
+2 Red Elemental Blast
+3 Firespout
Game 2, he leads off with turn 1 Vial for which I don't have the Force. Turn 2, he plays Silvergill Adept. Turn 3, he plays Lord of Atlantis; eot, I bolt it. On my turn 4, I go for Vedalken Shackles. He Forces; I Force back; he Forces again. A couple turns later, I draw Sower of Temptation and steal his guy. I beat him down to 12 or so but am at less than 10 myself. He draws back-to-back Corralhelm Commander and Lord of Atlantis and simply wins because of the Mutavaults in play. BOO!
1-1-0
Round 3 Matt Vennard - BRGU AGGRO LOAM
Game 1, he leads with turn 1 Volcanic Island. He plays turn 2 Taiga for the super confusing play of the day. I realize what he is doing when he plays turn 3 Crusher, which I eot Bolt. Turn 4, he plays Crusher. I eot Bolt. Turn 5, he plays another Crusher. My 3x Spell Snares in hand look sad and I lose to Crusher beats.
SB:
-2 Calcite Snapper
-1 Cryptic Command
-2 Spell Snare
-2 Engineered Explosives
+2 Sower of Temptation
+1 Spell Pierce
+2 Chalice of the Void
+2 Relic of Progenitus
Game 2, he leads with 2x Mox Diamond and a land into Life from the Loam. Nice deck. I play draw-go with him for a long, long time. Turn 6 or so, he Forces through a Crusher and double Spell Pierces my Shackles. Crusher smashes hard, but I rip Jace and bounce the Crusher. He recasts Crusher every turn until Jace is forced to -1 himself dead. On my next turn, I Brainstorm into Back to Basics+Jace+another card. I take the B2B, eat another 8-10 from Crusher putting me really low and draw and cast Jace. He, unfortunately has enough lands to cast the Crusher 4 turns in a row and I lose.
1-2-0
Now, I didn't write down the rest of my matches, so I can only give interesting pieces.
Round 4 Mark Spill - RWU LIGHTNING ANGEL
He was playing bad cards so I just win. Game 2, he did almost get there with Hammer of Bogardan by bolting me every other turn, but Teenage Mutant Ninja Calcite Snapper got there. He was a great guy; he traded me straight-up for an alternate 4th edition REB.
2-2-0
Round 5 Kevin Jones - SURVIVAL VENGEVINE
I won game 1 on the shoulders of Lightning Bolt and Spell Snare. He had the nuts game 2. Game 3, he had 3x Noble Hierarch and one land on his turn 3. I turn 4 Firespout and wipe his board. He proceeds to draw a land then another land. Then he casts Wild Mongrel and Basking Rootwalla and pokes me out of the game.
2-3-0
Round 6 Jeremy Haring - MONO-BLUE CONTROL
Game 1, I'm pretty dejected so I don't really care what is going on, so I keep a hand of 6 lands and Counterspell. Apparently, I chose wisely because that is the nuts for this match-up. I counter his Fact or Fictions and Morphlings and get there with Calcite Snapper and triple Lightning Bolt to the face.
SB:
-3 Back to Basics
-2 Engineered Explosives
-1 Vedalken Shackles
+2 Sower of Temptation
+2 Red Elemental Blast
+2 Relic of Progenitus
Game 2, he misses his fourth land drop for many turns in a row. I have something like 9 lands in play. My hand is 2x Force of Will, Counterspell, Cryptic Command, 2x Spell Snare, Lightning Bolt when he plays his fourth land and says "Let's do this." I'm pumped and start saying "Let's fight over Jace!" He indeed casts TMS and I respond with Cryptic Command. He casts Force of Will. I cast Counterspell. He casts Force of Will. I cast Force of Will (pitching Spell Snare). He casts Mindbreak Trap. I cast Force of Will. GG.
3-3-0
Round 7 Jordan Foster - BGW ROCK W/ PROGENITUS
Game 1, I am turtle aggroing him when he figures out I don't have counter-magic and casts Natural Order and wins with Progenitus. Game 2, I bolt his guys and cast B2B to keep him on 3 lands. He sticks a Knight of the Reliquary, which gets stolen by Vedalken Shackles. I get there. Game 3 goes to time. He could have won because he had Noble Hierarch and a 5/6 Tarmogoyf in play during turn 3 of time and I was at 5 life with no counter-magic in hand. Had he cast NO on his Hierarch and found Progenitus, he would have won. Instead, Calcite Snapper blocks Goyf for the draw.
3-3-1
Round 8 Jonathan Shue - BW THE GATE
Game 1, he attacks me to -11 life. I verify with the judge I am not allowed to Force or fetch while at 0 or less life and eventually lose when he gets enough removal to overwhelm my counterspells. Game 2, Vedalken Shackles goes online. Then Jace goes online. He doesn't scoop and we play until there is like 2 minutes left on the clock before I win. We draw in game 3.
3-3-2
Instead of potentially going 3-3-3, I decide to drop and give my deck a rest.
Conclusions:
I need Sphinx or Morphling. Too many games would have been won by a turn 6 Sphinx.
Cryptic Command was garbage all day long. It only was Dismiss. If more CB decks would have been in my way, I guess it would have been better.
I want a 4th B2B in the main. I should NOT lose to Aggro Loam decks. I need to be able to find it more consistently.
I was less excited with Jace and may go back to running 4x FoF, 1x TMS.
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
i've been playing this type of control deck
for about a couple of months now.
here's the list that i ran:
4 s.tarn
4 m.rainforest
12 island
1 academic ruin
1 forest
1 mountain
4 EE
3 vedalken shackles
4 relic of progenitus
1 repeal
3 firesprout
2 jace TMS
4 ancestral vision
4 Brainstorm
1 fact or fiction
1 sphinx of jwar isle
4 FOW
4 counterspell
2 spell pierce
SB
3 krosan grip
3 tormods
2 pithing needle
2 REB
2 BEB
1 spell pierce
1 sower
1 firesprout
here are my standings:
2-2
i won vs. sui and zoo
lost vs. merfolk, enchantress
3-1
won vs. sui, sui, dredge
lost to combo
3-0-1
won vs. vv sur, dredge, zoo
draw vs. encha
3-2-1
won vs. sui, sui, w.weenie
lost vs Can. thresh, dredge
draw vs. prog-bant
3-1
won vs. urg fae, aggro loam, burn
lost vs. W.stax
im really impressed the way this deck
controls dredge, zoo, and sui.
its like an autowin for me whenver im
against those decks.
W.stax so far was the most unfavorable match up that i faced.
TJB
http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^
TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)
UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)
I suppose sui means Survival.
No love for Back to Basics?
I think only 2 Jace is too few, and Ancestral Vision is probably too slows, why not try:
-4 Ancestral Vision
+3 Fact or Fiction
+1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
And with so much Survival, -2 spell pierce +2 spell snare is probably the way to go.
Isn't 4 EE too much?
It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
I'd rather assume that sui stands for Suicide, as he mentioned V.V.Sur (Vengevine Survival).
I would agree that 3 Jaces seem to be the right number, however, as I just have a few experience with this deck, I don't really know what card should be cutted.
Our music means nothing, except for what it means to
you.
Woops, my bad. Seemed too good to be true :P
It's also scientifically proven that resolving Nicol Bolas during a competitive legacy event causes the caster's penis to grow a good two or three inches.
just getting into this type of deck and got a question:
Which route of MUC is better? a) the one with Spellstutter Sprite,Sower,Vendilion Clique,Stifle by the SCG Jacob Van Lunen guy or
b) the route with Vedalken Shackles,Sphinx of Jwar Isle,Calcite Snapper ? Thanks
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