I don't suppose you (or emidln, or cheeseburger) could PM me a link to those 12 pages? I have gocho's spreadsheet, but beyond that I'm forced into coming up with piles myself on the spot, and it's significantly more difficult to come up with a pile when you're under pressure. Meditate piles and Ideas Unbound piles are becoming very standard for me to use, but when the situation calls for something else I end up taking too much time.Originally Posted by sillysam71
I've been testing several ideas as far as draw spells and tutors. My lastest incarnation includes Personal Tutor and Ideas Unbound piles. BU with 4 Daze and 7 Discard spells. LDV can give me two or three of the cards I'm looking for, but it still costs two mana and a handful of life to get there. After losing two-four games from manascrew/wasteland I decided to cut red, as BW was the only thing I splashed red for in the main, with Pyroblast in the side and Pulverize, Pyroclasm, and Grapeshot as wish targets. Pyroblast was nice, but not worth losing to your own land. Wish also forced me to play the 'wait a turn' game before I could go off, and anyone who plays combo knows that when you need to go off, you need to go off.
I believe green offers better options for protection than white, but both require you to stretch your manabase farther than you'd like to go, and can't offer much else. Red brings BW, but the protection spells aren't as good. Blue and Black are pretty much required. Discard and counterspells seem good enough to me. I may include Forces, I have 17 blue cards in my deck, including those Dazes.
Emidln has a link on the bottom of his posts called "Verbose Doomsday Piles." That's where I learned most of what I know about Doomsday Piles.
I've read that document about a hundred times. I also have a printout of that spreadsheet, it's golden. I just keep thinking there's some archive of piles that is bigger than what I have.
I also realize that the piles are flexible based on the situation, such as having one extra mana against Teeg so you can throw Slaughter Pact into your Meditate pile and not have to worry about initial mana for rituals. I just want as many ideas for piles as I can get my hands on.
I highly doubt cutting Wish for colour reasons is a good idea. Try cutting in the amount of basics you run first. If you don't run Wish, you will be forced to run IT and both IGG and ToA mainboard. I personally hate IT --> DD because that is always going to cost you 8 mana and a cantrip to win, which is pretty bad and will make you wonder why you aren't running an AdN mainboard. The list I'd currently run has neither IGG nor ToA in the mainboard. I know emidln doesn't agree with the IGG, but I love playing a cleaned up mainboard like that. I'm currently unsure as to wether I should be playing Emrakul mainboard, and if I am, if I should play CoF mainboard.
"Part of me belives that Barrin taught me meditation simply to shut me up."
-Ertai, wizard adept
http://solidarityprimer.proboards85.com/index.cgi
The resource you're looking for is the Doomsday Piles thread on Storm Boards. In addition to stuff that eventually makes it into Doomsday Piles documents, recent developments (mostly thanks to lejay and cheeseburger) include Carpet of Flowers/Chain of Vapor piles to get double use out of an in play Carpet, Ideas Unbound as a replacement for Meditate (it's as good or better in almost all common situations), and a laundry list of misc piles. There is discussion about piles, scenarios, and some more stuff that's good to know as a Doomsday player.
Part of the reason we keep this stuff on storm boards is to prevent every other post from becoming "that won't work because (gives reason that's wrong)" or "I don't see it" or "8 storm (counting from doomsday on) isn't lethal therefore this sux". The source pretty good for generic discussion on archetype, but has been, in my experience, very poor when looking to discuss intricacies of a deck.
If piles under pressure are hard, practice more. There is a puzzles/scenarios forum on storm boards that has scenarios that might help you develop in this area.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I'm noticing Ideas Unbound being equivalent/superior to Meditate and I'm running it main now. I also know I need to practice.
@Bahamuth - I liked BW better in AdN, when my decks total mana cost was like 36 due to no IGG or ToA main, with 1 Nauseam MD.
In DD I'm almost always using it to find DD, otherwise it sits in my hand. It's nice to have for the piles though. Personal Tutor has been accomplishing the same job. I can also PT for IU or discard, which may lead me to include Cabals again. Sometimes a lack of mana is an issue.
I want to play a standart list of doomsday deck, and Im new with this deck :), I want to play the deck with tipic configuration 4 orim chants + 2 silence, and I want to play the combo of emrakul + Shelldock Island... What cards do you put out for sideboarding Xatind Swam + 1 Tropical Island or Krosan Grips, or REverent Silence ?
Help, please I dont know what are the best cards for putting out when I have to sideboard.
Thank you.
On monday I will be unveiling my newest list after the SCG 10K tournament in Denver this weekend. It's got some pretty sweet tech, but I don't care to share it until after it's debut. It's UBwg and has been pwning all aggro and ichorid I have tested against, has been going 40/60 against Dragon Stompy preboard, but with a last minute change I made, it's about 50/50 preboard right now and 65/35 post board. There's no CB where I live but in my past testing against blue, I feel really good about the list.
Hopefully it does well.
-AB
Sounds interesting. Don't think any of the lists I have been playing can realistically beat Dragon Stompy, unless I get the nuts :I
To be honest, if you get the possibility to fetch for basics and/or land a lotus petal, post board things aren't looking grim for us at all. I play 3 Hurkyl's Recall which are basically an autowin if found at the right point. ( I know that 3 may sound too much, but my meta is infested with artifact decks.)
However, I have the feeling I could win even with 2, since there are lots of options avaiable in UBwg lists (usually the default 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Echoing Truth, and even 1 Chain of Vapor). You could also side in the Emrakul package, the key point is to take off all the Duresses and Chants in order to avoid dead topdecks and lower Cotv@1's influence.
Remember you also have SDT which is by a mile the strongest play you could make early, it filters nicely the dead draws (cards going under Chalices) and finds your bouncers.
Looking forward for this "tech", though. I bet it is not anything new. At maximum, it can be a Rain of Filth, a Predict. Everything else techy only strictly relates with Doomsday (see Shared Fate and Solitary Confinement) and thus, it suboptimal in those builds that can (and should) play both the Igg loop and the Doomsday part excellently (i.e., 4+ chants, 3 cabals, 4 petals, 3-4 IT and 3-4 DD).
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Avatar of kicks_422's creation and property
So in the end, which was this winning tech?
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Avatar of kicks_422's creation and property
Well, I was anticipating a lot of blue, but as it turns out there were only a couple merfolk lists and a few CB lists. Ichorid was heavy also, so I had to change my list.
My "tech" was running 3 Enlightened tutors, an md Serenity, 1 Carpet of Flowers, and a couple cunning wishes. They all served me well in playtesting. However, I changed my list after the Saturday night Legacy challenge, and while I still ran the E. Tutors (Swapped out green for 3 Burning Wishes to speed up a touch), my list wasn't tested and I flopped. Also, I lost my ghostly prison right before handing in my list, so I threw in an IGG real quick in the board. That was fail against Ichorid and Goblins. I did much good, but more wrong.
Being able to tutor for LED is sick. Way better than being able to tutor for D/C Rit. I did it turn one and won turn 2 three times sunday.
In the challenge friday, I went Turn one Petal, Fetch, Enlightened Tutor, BS, Petal, D. Rit, LED, LED, IT, IGG, LED, LED, IT, Tendrils. I thought that was pretty sick.
You can grab Carpet of Flowers also, and I ran 3 top which is amazing in any kind of control matchup (plus I run 2 DDay in teh md and 1 in the sb, no Ad Nauseam unless playing cunning wishes) and I can tutor for those, along with the Serenity, and then EE also and even Ensnaring Bridge against a turn 1/2 'Nought or a fast Prog. Then of course there's Prison you can grab against Goblins/Merfolk/Ichorid/Zoo. I've tested Planar Collapse against aggro and unless they are stupid enough to over extend (which they do once in a while in order to beat the combo) it's kinda fail. And it only works once.
Anyway, I am very pleased with it and I hope your testing with it agrees. I'm interested in hearing which tutor targets work best for you guys.
https://docs.google.com/document/edi...QmAMgTkY&hl=en
It is still in work, but some guys want me to release it.
Lejay helped me.
Please contact me if you find a mistake.
Ive actually been thinking about E. Tutor storm for a while now. Like Secretly said, tutoring LED is savage but even getting top at the right time is good. Also, it lets us play singleton sideboard answers which is just insanely nice.
E Tutor Main gives you out the the side:
U: Seal of Removal for hatebears
R: Seal of Fire for hatebears
G: Seal of Primordium and tutorable Carpets
W: Serenity + Seal of Cleansing
B: Seal of Doom (meh)
Also, it open up the option of using EE to stop hate jank since EE @ 2 stops most permanant hate.
The only real issue is that you have to play white, which has always felt like a subpar splash color in DDay.
White isnt bad in D-Day, it's just not as good as red was, but that has changed a bit since the ban hammer smacked Blue Tutor and the newest ruling on LED; also, it got a bit better and easier with silence. I don't necessarily believe that Ad Nauseam is worth it anymore in a FT list. It's still gold in the faster lists, and can be used in Cunning Wish lists, but overall I think it's on it's way out. That's just my opinion though. I did love Pyroblasts, but nostalgia isn't worth talking about.
You forgot one or two cards it can grab:
EE -- Good against EtW tokens, Zombie Tokens, I used it day one to blow up a goyf and 2 Nantuko Shades (lol), and on day two I blew up a Sphere of resistance after tutoring for it in response to the Sphere. It was decent.
Ghostly Prison -- This can/will win you the goblin matchup. It buys so much time. It's not as good against zoo or merfolk (bigger creatures, counterspells, respectively), but still a decent card. Also throws off tempo of lists that depend on it.
Ensnaring Bridge -- Not so relevant but lists that rely on Prog or Emrakul have to find a way around it, it's playable off a Rit and very unexpected.
Oblivion Ring -- Not a solid choice when Serenity is in the list, so it's not good very often, but it still has it's uses.
-- ABCcretly
This saddens me.
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
Care to elaborate? I understand that a sound tongue-lashing is probably inevitable as you seem to be in a fairly self-righteous state of mind, but I'll take the bait anyway.
--ABC
I was actually just talking about how I took one of my newer lists to my local card shop the other day and lost out to solid luck. Running: 4x Dark Rit, 4x Cabal Rit, 4x LED, and 4x Petal; the deck seems incapable of giving me anything that I need at any point in time. Maxing out on good acceleration ... pfff, I dont draw it., but rather I draw 4 of my 16 lands in my first 4 draw steps with 3 lands already in hand.
Also when I posted, I was .... very drunk and about to play Left 4 Dead with fellow drunken idiots.
I stopped a long time ago telling people their tech was awful, I just let em play it now and respond to other parts of their posts hinting that other cards would be optimal in certain slots. For example: I used to be unable to imagine how someone could possibly run something like Ghostly Prison in combo and fire off a rant ripping their card choices apart. That accomplishes nothing and they play cards like that anyway to hopefully win 1-3 games with it then come back here and talk about how good it is. Now, the only thing I say is "if it works for u, run it". I have no idea why u want to play defense in the most aggressive of all legacy deck archetypes, but it it works, run it I guess.
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
What happened to LED?
What was that ruling that I seemed to have missed.
It wasn't really a ruling on LED he was talking about. It's the ruling that stops you from floating mana between steps. You can no longer crack LED in your upkeep to cast a card you will draw in your draw step.
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