Soul Spike was terrible in my testing. 3 Cards for 1 - i just could never say "yay" after playing it. It felt like too much of a drawback, even though its effect is good it was devastating for my own play4 Soul Spike
Swords of LaS felt too slow for me. The thing is jitte starts to beat when the Swords are just played. It WAS in fact nice when i could get it on the board, protecting from STP and giving a nice bonus on lets say the nighthawk.....but for the most part my other creatures were removed by swords to plowshares anyway (havent tried versus anything red though and my opponents just ALLWAYS had a STP ;) ) so i couldnt return a creature many times. I´d stick to Jitte....its faster and gamewinning as well PLUS it doesnt rely on anything (except u having a beatstick to attach it to).The open slots could be two SoLS. but I didn`t test them (and have none). So maybe you have some test results with them?
Ok then I`ll keep my 3 maindeck jitte;)
The amazing thing with the spike is that it comes surprisingly. In the lategame, where I am sometimes, maybe you to, you can easy hardcast them, but thats not their strengh;)
Maybe it keep the three spikes in the SB.
i could never hardcast em :P
It´s so unbelievably expensive @ 7 mana. I think Spinning Darkness is A M A Z I N G though and i will need to fit that one in my sideboard too :) Its so nice to have versus Merfolk (and having something versus merfolk seems like a must play to me )
Eh, I like Soul Spike, along with Spinning Darkness. There are quite a few red decks in my meta, and turning otherwise useless cards (discard when they're topdecking, and any suicidal cards if I keep them in) into a strong life-swing.
@Hollywood
I was wondering what you're boarding strategies are.
Originally Posted by ktkenshinx
@ Hollywood's SB:
I was wondering if you could please toss some logic to me as to why you run Disk over OStone? The only disadvantage I see for ostone is that it requires 5 mana to pop as opposed to the maximum 4 mana it costs to play Disk. Other than that it takes out Planeswalkers and seems a little more flexible. Just curious on your take here.
Other than that, I personally hate Spinning Darkness due to my first tournament with Gate where it did almost nothing, but I'll trust that your meta may be different and I most likely got unlucky. Soul Spike seems pretty awesome but there's maybe 1 Ad Nauseum in my current meta and I haven't really seen how Spike fits in well against other decks other then as a control supplement so I run some different choices.
I don't run Disk anymore.
I’m very interested in this deck (always had a knack for mono black decks) and I sleeved it up yesterday and really like how it plays.
I do have a couple of questions though.
First of all; how is the Landstill matchup? On paper, it looks horrible. We probably can’t keep up with their card advantage (Bob won’t live long), our sorcery speed removal isn’t going to take care of Factories (Wasteland can but they can save their own Wastelands for ours) and is basically dead in this matchup and we have no way to get rid of bombs like Humility, Elspeth/Jace (we can attack it if we can keep a creature on the board to do so) and Crucible.
The best gameplan seems to be to hit them with discard in the first couple of turns and then follow that up with one threat at a time but you don’t always get hands like that.
This is pure theoretical, I haven’t had the chance to test it.
After playing a couple of games against Zoo yesterday, I immediately wanted at least 1 more swamp in the deck but from what I’ve read here, I’m not the only one.
As much as I like the main deck, some of the sideboard cards seem questionable to me:
- Spinning Darkness: I’ve always liked this card and used it in many casual decks but do we seriously board in 4 cards with cmc 6 in a deck that runs Confidant? Or do you board out Confidant in the matchups where you bring Spinning Darkness in? I don’t think Confidant can be boarded out against Merfolk and Goblins as it’s the only way we can keep up with their Standstills and Ringleaders (apart from discard).
- Soul Spike: If I understand correctly the plan against combo is to let them resolve Ad Nauseam, let them go to 4 life or less and then hit them with Soul Spike? This seems like a horrible plan. There are way too many things that can go wrong with this. TES can go for Empty the Warrens for instance or even if they go for Ad Nauseam, there is no guarantee that they have to go as low as 4 life. And if you flip a Soul Spike with a Confidant, you screwed yourself twice (7 damage + your tech revealed). And even if you can pull it off once, the combo player can easily play around it the next game.
Wouldn’t Thorn of the Amethyst be a better option to bring in against Combo?
I’m probably missing some very legit reasons for these cards to be included and I don’t want to bash your card choices but I immediately thought of these drawbacks when seeing the sideboard and I would like some more insight on why these were chosen over other options.
Thx
I found Landstill to be an ok matchup.
You got Discard and Bitterblossom - both of which is nice versus Landstill..... and for the Jace-playing ones you have Pithing Needle in your Sideboard.
Versus Landstill board out 3 Faery, 3 Deathmark and 1 Gatekeeper and put in 3 Needle´s and 4 Hymn (if u dont have em Main, which you most likely should)
If u allready have 4 Hymn, 3 Cabal Therapy and 4 Duress main - the matchup should be winnable anyway...
Cant agree more on Soul Spike - i found it to be horribly bad too
Spinning Darkness on the contrary can be VERY helpful versus Goblins and Zoo and Merfolk. The Lifeswing from Confi - just hope u wont feel it ;) Also, confi wont live long versus either of these Decks ....
No.
Why not?
I think there are a lot of cards that can come out before Faery Macabre; why would you leave in Innocent Blood for instance. I think you need to try to draw into more threats than their removal (which probably isn't easy) therefore you probably don't want to board out creatures against Landstill.
I'd probably leave in 2 Deathmarks if I expect them to bring in Preacher.
I would absolutely never board out any threats against Landstill.
Recently I tested 60+ games against BUG Landstill w/ Deed because I was really concerned about the match up. Split them almost 50/50 post board. Knowing when to slow-roll threats and when to put them on a fast clock is key. Sideboard SoLS was strong for me and I assume it would be just as good or better against any white or 4 color list.
I should probably go into a little bit more detail on my sideboard as far as what I play and what is working best for me at the moment:
Soul Spike
This seems to be the card where the most speculation dwells. I think it is imperative people understand the explosive nature behind Storm-based combo decks that can just win at any given time. The Gate runs a good portion of disruption, so keeping an opponent from killing you for a turn or two is an acceptable means to aggressively irritate their strategy early in the game. Let's assume you defeat combo the first game with your proactive discard, and you are ready to proceed to the sideboard.
Against Ad Nauseam, on the draw, you are looking dead in the water. Combo is an extraordinarily difficult match to deal with on the draw because now you are allowing the player to Brainstorm or cantrip before you have an opportunity to discard the meat of their hand. When they do this, they can go off in a hurry without any problems. Allow me to cite a specific example from my first round, second game match against Bryant Cook at Jupiter Games' Anniversary event:
Bryant ends up "going off" turn two, when I have no way of stopping him at this point. Let me say that again: No way. Aside from discard, there really is no other way to stun the combo player as you purposely run no acceleration. So, while the combo player is going off, there is a very realistic possibility they will stop at four life or less. The reason for this is due to the inclusion of key cards like Tendrils of Agony, Empty the Warrens, or Ill-Gotten Gains.
Notice the cost of each of those cards.
Storm combo players have a tendency to stop at or near that life total because they fear flipping to their death. I have played countless matches against Bryant where he stops at four or less life. There's no reason not to; they need those cards in order to kill you. So once they decide to cast an acceleration spell or a win condition, you respond by killing them. If a Storm player stops at five life and Empties the Warrens, then that is unfortunate. In that case, there is nothing you'd be able to do anyway, because having them create a million Goblins is going to be hard for anyone to deal with turn two. But, this gives us a legitimate out against them when they do drop to a life total of four or lower and can kill them in response to anything they play.
Remember, you're also gaining four life to potentially cripple them from expending what the have on a storm count of ten or eleven because you gain life as well. Off Ad Nauseam, they are only gaining back what they lost with Tendrils, so recuperating and coming back offensively to kill them is not entirely impossible; I've done it.
The card is also not useless against Zoo; you're giving yourself an opportunity to gain life at a point in the game where losing life becomes more and more dangerous. You're also doing damage at the same time. Spinning Darkness does this (essentially) for free as well, and is a little more reasonable in the cost. You would also want to remove Dark Confidant straight-up for Spinning Darkness against Zoo games two and three. I learned from my match in the Top Four by not siding correctly (I kept Dark Confidant in). Do not keep Dark Confidant in except against Storm with Soul Spike coming in. It is worth taking the risk trying to net more cards while attempting to kill them unknowingly.
Sword of Light and Shadow
This card has been a very useful tool in gaining life and recurring threats. When you have a card (like Umezawa's Jitte) that can completely change the scope of any threat by stacking the problems against an opponent (gaining life, recurring threats, etc.), you're putting them in a position where they need to weigh how important it will be in determining the outcome of a game. This is a very nice compliment to Jitte in that it allows you to continue generating threats while protecting your investments. People usually let this card resolve, which is a massive error; they automatically assume they will knock off any impending threats before you equip it, and that is just not going to happen. There is too much removal and discard for them to deal with and this adds a whole new level of consistency (the key word).
Dystopia
I have fallen in love with this card. It is just so powerful in what it can achieve in such a short order. It rids the board of just about any unwanted white or green permanents the following upkeep, and forces an opponent to overextend his or her resources to stay ahead of the threat race. When they do this, your plan is working as it should: You're inherently forcing an opponent to deplete their resources and remove them one at a time. It is just so multilateral in match-ups that would normally seem troublesome (Enchantress, Mono White Stax, etc.). It's a card that acts with low fuel (like Bitterblossom), because life you lose if offset by the removal you play for any creatures they may play. This is a just an insurance policy to ease the pressure and attack those problematic areas (Enchantments and Planeswalkers).
Pithing Needle
This card is getting some recognition due to cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor becoming more and more of an issue. I would have to agree with this - to a certain extent. Pithing Needle is quite flexible and most people see it as a good insurance policy against decks running cards like Aether Vial and Jace, respectively. I am beginning to see why this is so powerful in certain match-ups where normally I would dismiss any threats before my opponent has an opportunity to do something realistically harmful to my setup. I'm not concerned at all about creatures, and I think the sideboard can find room for a few of these. They work very well in most circumstances, especially a nice touch following up discard. I will try and find room for three.
These cards have been working great the way they are, but I can see why some people shuffle them between the main and sideboard. I guess it really depends on your meta and what works best for you.
Last edited by Michael Keller; 08-10-2010 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Fixed tags...
@Needle: They are on my short list of cards to add to the board due to it's excellent flexibility. Outstanding against Landstill in testing, they make me feel a little better about Belcher and Survival also.
I've also been very active trying to decide what I am going to do with Bitterblossom. I'm debating whether or not to up the count to three (or even four, depending on how more testing goes). I think the card is severely underrated and has literally provided massive swings in a good portion of my games, especially in the control match.
I know I am going to be questioned for this, but I am seriously considering going with four Faerie Macabre in the sideboard, which would mean this for the main build...
-2 Faerie Macabre.
...and substituting this in its place:
+1 Bitterblossom.
+1 Swamp.
I've been thinking a lot about how good Faerie Macabre is in the main build, but it bothers me a little bit that there are only two in there for utility purposes. I would much rather increase productivity by maximizing the Equipment with Bitterblossom, and help increase the number of Swamps so I never find myself without lands. With four Faerie Macabre in the sideboard, I am placing able-bodied creatures in the deck with the obvious important utility of being able to hit the graveyard at full force with a full set. This would work much better (I think) because it isn't just a dead card with Equipment - or by itself for that matter.
Which brings me to Leyline of the Void: I just don't think it is worth the risk playing in a deck that you would need to mulligan into (really) to be most effective, when Faerie Macabre is almost like a pseudo-mulligan to six if you open a single one to start the game. And, even then, it is still a creature, so it's not entirely dead. Leyline requires too much work and I just feel more creatures help maximize the potential of the Equipment we play.
And, there is nothing wrong with a Sword of Light and Shadow-equipped creature recurring Faerie Macabre each turn. That in itself is savage.
My other major testing this weekend was against Survival variants, primarily UG Madness. I was always very happy in pre-board games to open a hand with the Faerie. If the Madness player gets too aggressive and tries to race, a single Faerie can result in a massive blow-out.
The suggestion is tempting, no doubt. I have been meaning to add another black source and the extra blossom would improve game 1 against Landstill. A large portion of the format has no good answer to blossom in game 1.
I'll testing a lot more this coming weekend and I'll be sure to give this a try.
I have begun thinking more and more about the Landstill match, and this is a valid reason why I have progressively moved cards like Hymn to Tourach to the main deck, considered Pithing Needle for the board, and am now considering subbing out the Faeries for a more systematic problem in Bitterblossom.
Equipment is also very solid against Landstill because it transforms your threats into an even bigger problem. Each turn pumping your Faeries with Jitte or Sword can be just too difficult for them to deal with.
Would running Tombstalker in low quantities here really be a sin?
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be.
The question rather is if u need tombstalker
CC7 sux for Confidant and Persecutor is to my experience better in this Deck. To my feeling, Tombstalker comes out Turn 3, in which you most likely want to play Gatekeeper / Nighthawk / another removal / another discard.
T4 or T5 is fast enough i think, and Percy is bigger and has trample :)
Stalker hurts Spinning Darkness also. I have never been in a spot where I would have wanted Stalker instead of or in addition to Persecutor.
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