[Deck] Zoo

[CorpT]

What do you guys think about the 3/2 can't be target of spells or ability's target opponent controls and regenerate 2 over knight of the reliquary.
I played against a zoo deck with it and lost all the games almost on him so...
I think that's a quite good card if you ask me?
What do you guys think?

I've played Troll Ascetic before and he is unbelieavbly slow and mana consuming. I wouldn't recommend him. Yes, he can be a problem with Jitte and/or Collar, but that is a lot of mana tied up in one, ok-ish creature.

[BantFTW]

okej than I stay with kotr-fireblast :D

[jandax]

Your dudes are gonna die, that's why it sucks to open a hand wiht KOTR/goyf in it in most cases. Getting in there with kitties for some damage, then dropping fat will usually always get you there. And if they hold removal for your fat, the lil one's are still doing their job so it's not so bad.

[hungryLIKEALION]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...llection/page2

New report, top 4 The Portal in a ~30 person tournament for a From The Vault:Relics. Back to a more traditional build, but I really liked it. Played a lot of good games today.

[BantFTW]

This is my new list after some tournements:

4 Wild Nacatl
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Knight Of The Reliquary
2 stoneforge mystic
20

4 Lightning Bolt
2 flame slash --> great against all creatures and also kills RWM (really good card, it doesn't damage on a player but it's good)
2 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast
4 Path to Exile
1 swords to plowshares (I like an extra stp instead of a lightning helix bcs that it destroys much more)
2 elspeth (this is a bomb and a win against counterbalance decks)
1 jitte
1 SOFI (my meta is full of, gobblins zoo and merfolk and bant, so there it's really good against)
1 sylvan library (for late game if you don't make it, and also good in general)
20

3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
20

SB: (so many graveyard-hate bcs of quite some decks in our meta and keep losing from them so)
3 Choke
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 relic of progenitus
1 ravenous trap
3 gaddock teeg
2 price of progress

Played 2 tournaments with this list: 1 top 8 and the other 15th :(
But yeah if you got questions ask them.
ty

Ps: I really don't know why you guys like steppe lynx so much, he's really a death card in mid and late game lol?

[jandax]

You don't know why Lynx is good because you've never played with him. Knights turn it on in the mid/late game, simply playing fetchlands frugally turns it on mid/late game. The possibility of attacking for 4/5 on turn two far outweighs the benefits of a mana intensive SFM package, IMHO. I'm sure others will reluctantly chime in on the lynx debate, but it distills down to speed or stability. Which does the player prefer?

[BantFTW]

okej, than I'm going to test it.
But, what's the right number to play than?
And lynx + kotr is also quite good don't you think :O?

[keys]

You don't know why Lynx is good because you've never played with him. Knights turn it on in the mid/late game, simply playing fetchlands frugally turns it on mid/late game. The possibility of attacking for 4/5 on turn two far outweighs the benefits of a mana intensive SFM package, IMHO. I'm sure others will reluctantly chime in on the lynx debate, but it distills down to speed or stability. Which does the player prefer?

Lynx may be twice as big on the attack sometimes, but it's still a 0/1 on defense almost always. 2/3 blockers are important in a lot of matchups, from Goblins to Ichorid. That's why I still play Kird Ape.

[BantFTW]

yeah, tested them a little on this midday and I don't think I want them instead of something else^^
they die to fast.

[troopatroop]

Srry Bant, but your decklist is weaksauce. You play Elspeth with only 20 lands and 0 Noble Hierarch, which is just slow and bad. You play Flame Slash which is alot worse than you make it sound. Lightning Helix is clunky. Jitte is really a 4 drop and SOFI a 5drop, and all on 20 Lands. Wasteland cripples you. You play Fireblast and only 4 1drop creatures beaters. The random STP is random. Why do people think SFM is good enough for this deck? I hate equipment, losing your creature in response to the equip is so huge.

Where is Chain Lightning?
Where is Kird Ape/Loam Lion?

I just feel like it's seriously lacking in focus.

[jandax]

Not picking here, but it honestly seems like a player wanting to be original and making a few changes to an established archetype to call their own. If that's what a player wants out of the game then more power to them. HOwever, hocking a list that's no where near a honed deck is sort of naive. Play with the proven lists first, then make changes for stronger cards for a specific metagame/tournament. Being honest with oneself is really the only way to become a better player.

[BantFTW]

It really ain't a bad list, tested it soo much.
I never lose against gobblins, merfs and zoo (sometimes but yeah).
Problems are combo (ofc), and graveyard^^.
But elspeth helps there alot, and no it isn't to slow.
The flame slash were just a test, would replace that with chain lightnings or searing blaze.

could also put in loam lions/kird apes but don't really need them.
I've got 7 1-drops. Seems enough.
I've played the original list but I like mine more.

Okej, I think your way to traditional.
Test some more things...
Like chains, they are good but sorcery, and I don't like that so I play things with other ability's that
are 2cmc and gife you life or do damage at a player.

[Rico Suave]

I've got 7 1-drops. Seems enough.

It's really not. If you double this number, you will have enough.

[BantFTW]

4 lions and 4 kird apes or what lol?
Serious, steppe lynx is a pritty death card if you don't have it before turn 3^^
lions and kird apes are oké but yeah.
I'll try them.

[jandax]

You don't seem to get it. I was, and still am, being objective and pointing out that through shared experience, there exists one or more lists that are well honed enough to pick up as is and win. Deviating from those lists can be both good and bad.

You don't know what list I have, I doubt you took the time to look back a few pages to check it out.

My logic was that you "liking" cards doesn't make them good in the deck. I am skeptical about your results against easy matchups and the mirrow, as you contradict yourself by saying you don't actually lose to them but not really (paraphrasing). In what way does an Elspeth help against Combo and Dredge? Lots of your claims aren't backed up, therefore a lot of people aren't going to take your comments seriously.

Furthermore, the reason I suggested Lynx is that while it has the potential to be a dead card often enough like a few other cards in the deck, the strength it gives to the start of the game shouldn't be overlooked or dismissed so easily. With the card in the deck, one must have a different mentality towards how the deck is to be played out against each matchup possible. A mulligan to 6 for a Lynx often enough hasn't been a bad move in my experience. I wouldn't ship back a Nacatl hand for a Lynx hand but the principle remains: ~10 damage by turn 4 will usually be game, any faster and its a lock. More often than not I have had turn 3 kills. I feel that in the metagame in which I play it is necessary to be speedy, and I also feel that same mind set can translate easily into any other metagame. Good luck.

[OldOD]

The steppe lynx argument honestly shouldnt even be an argument for those that have played with him. Ive heard so many times zoo players complain on turn 4 "oh my steppe lynx doesnt do anything now" after i had just saw them get in for 8 total on turns 2 and 3. except you paid one white for 8 damage if not more? not to mention alot of blue draws have to straight up Fow lynx. Maybe its just my meta, but with all the new herizons/ mana denial 21/22 land is probly right anyway. Steppe lynx is just the absolute nuts. Its really not dead in the mid and late game either, you never draw fetches? man i wish i could be that lucky. also if you do you just run them out there?

and bantftw no herizon canopy? that card is pretty silly with kotr, and just in general.

[jandax]

^^Those are all points I was tying into. People look at the card in a vacuum mindset and immediately write it off as weak. Also, simply changing mentality when playing withh Lynx will help the player utilize its strengths better by not just running out fetchlands for example. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lynx lets your rip a land and be a hero. The card turns 1/3 of your deck into damage spells, essentially.

[BantFTW]

Okej, it's true maar the Elspeth is just good against all decks.
And is canopy than so good with kotr? Need to test it, probably yeah :P
And bout lynx, it's a good card but I don't like it so not playing it.
My deck is a littlebit slower but yeah, I like stoneforge alot.
And Jandax, I can't find your build, could you post a link?

ty

[Mark Sun]

For an always-changing metagame that has a high percentage of Goblins players (we had 2, almost 3 last week at our local if someone hadn't have switched last minute), how effective can Steppe Lynx be?

I gave the following list a shot; it was created in haste and does not have the best card choices, but I went 3-1 at our local this week with it. Basically took Hatfield's list and filled in the gaps of what we did not have within the team, for some reason no one had the fourth Lavamancer or Chokes for the SB.


// LANDS
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest/Mountain/Plains

// CREATURES
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Steppe Lynx
1 Kird Ape
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Gaddock Teeg

// SPELLS
3 Sylvan Library
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast


// SIDEBOARD
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Karakas
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast


I hadn't seen Goblins in about two weeks there, so I didn't think to bring any tech against them. I read earlier in the thread that Pyroclasm is okay against them (or Fallout if Merfolk is present), so I will probably try that out next week. Steppe Lynx was subpar all day, but probably only because of my matchups.


I played the following Rounds:

R1) UGr CounterTop (Jace, Firespout, Goyf, Shackles) - Win 2-1 thanks to a well timed Krosan Grip freeing up the removal I had in my hand for his Goyfs and Pyroblasting a Jace after boards. g1 was pretty embarassing, I was on 2 land the entire game and he stole a Steppe Lynx with Shackles and beat my face in with it.

+3 Krosan Grip, +2 Pyroblast, -1 Gaddock Teeg, -4 Steppe Lynx


R2) BGW Nelson Rock + Elspeth - Win 2-1, lose g1 to a horrible punt when I glance at the Teeg on the board and think it's a Pridemage, I swing a dude right into a giant Knight, bolt it, and he activates it in response. I bring in my own Swords and Knights, and both games, burning him out after sticking a Sylvan Library/removing his dudes.

+2 Swords to Plowshares, +2 Knight of the Reliquary, -4 Steppe Lynx


R3) RB Goblins - Lose 0-2, I keep shady 2-landers on the play each game and fail to see the next land. Had to pay 8 life with Sylvan Library in g2 to find a third land, by that time the game was pretty much over. Really needed a board sweeper.

+2 Swords to Plowshares, +2 Knight of the Reliquary, -3 Steppe Lynx, -1 Gaddock Teeg


R4) RB Golbins - Win 2-1, different build but each game consists of the other drawing lands, with the victor being the person who drew less.

Boarding the same as in R3.



Basically the entire night I felt like Lynx was the weakest card in my deck against any of those matchups (except maybe the Rock matchup). What would you guys have boarded if you were in my position? Thanks for feedback.

[BantFTW]

I'm testing now the list you play but no lynx, instead loam lion/kird apes^^
So, they're pritty much better atm xD

gr