My solution to Iona, when I actually considered it a threat, was Executioner's Capsule since you could play it down turn 1 and let it sit on the board until Iona resolved after which it could be cracked to take her out. Also could be boarded in against Merfolk and possibly Zoo in a pinch. As I don't consider Iona to be much of a threat anymore though (not seeing it much in my meta and Macabre will prolly do the trick) I don't run capsule in the board anymore since there are better options for creature removal, IE Deathmark, Spinning Darkness, Smother, Vendetta.
Sorry everyone... I was under the impression that when Iona comes into play, with it's ability on the stack, you could cast an instant (like Diabolic edict).
I just read Iona's rulings, and now understand that you cannot respond to her being played because the colour is chosen as she enters play and is not an ability that goes on the stack.
My mistake. But thank you to everyone who explained this ruling in detail to me, instead of calling me stupid... or lost.
No problem. This was one of the reasons Faerie Macabre was run main build over the sideboard - when Reanimator was more relevant.Originally Posted by worsel
I am finally starting to see, after countless matchups, that the playstyle of the Gate is not like a control deck with discard instead counters. I realize now that the Gate has more range than that: it can be aggro when it needs to, it also necessitates a certain amount of subtlety when playing difficult matchups, which is part of the reason why I love playing the Gate so much. Many people say that monoblack is so straightforward, but I'm finally beginning to see the minute subtleties that can really differentiate a mediocre player and a great player. We might not have instants (MD, depending on your build), but it feels to me more like an epic chess game. We are making calculated moves on our turn and responding to our opponent with quality two-for-ones along with our experience and knowledge of the format.
That's just my two cents....
About the deck in general. I really like the 2 SOLS in one of the sideboard options. I often times feel like the gate in certain matchups could really benefit from a faster clock, a clock that also happens to give major card advantage. I am running a SOLS and SOFI in the sb to bring in in matchups where the opponent doesn't have a way of removing our threats (i.e. merfolk and MAYBE goblins).
Also, zoo matchup? I'm anxiously awaiting the post :D
In general, i have trouble with boarding...so how about i present what iīd board versus what, and you rant about it, can that be done ?
Here is my Sideboard:
3 Dystopia
3 Spinning Darkness
3 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Hymn to Tourach
Here is what i would board in the following order: out <-> in VERSUS matchup
3 Deathmark <-> 3 Spinning Darkness VERSUS Aggro (non green/white) Decks, like Goblins and Merfolk
1 Hymn to Tourach, 1 Cabal Therapy, 1 Duress <-> 3 Pithing Needle VERSUS Vialgoblins, Merfolk, Jace, Death and Taxes
3 Deathmark <-> 3 Dystopia VERSUS Enchantress/ Solitary Confinement
3 Deathmark, 1 Hymn to Tourach <-> 4 Leyline of the Void VERSUS Reanimator, Dredge
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir, 1 Innocent Blood <-> 1 Hymn to Tourach,1 Sword of Light and Shadow VERSUS random u/w control builds and Landstill-archetypes
4 Dark Confidant <-> 3 Spinning Darkness, 1 Sword of Light/Shadow VERSUS Zoo
PS:
Here is my decklist for reference on boarding (its pretty much the same as Hollywoodīs list, because after so many playtestings and that tournament i played, i just have to agree on almost all of his choices.So iīll just say "Good work, Hollywood" again)
// Lands
18 [ZEN] Swamp (1a)
3 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [WWK] Abyssal Persecutor
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
// Spells
3 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (3)
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [OD] Innocent Blood
3 [MOR] Bitterblossom
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [ARE] Duress
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
3 [CS] Deathmark
Updated with Zoo included.
Here is my take on the deck:
Creatures 19
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
4 Plague Spitter
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells 16
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Innocent Blood
2 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughseize
4 Cabal Therapy
Artifacts 4
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Basilisk Collar
Lands 21
4 Scrubland
8 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
The biggest change is my swapping out Gatekeeper for Plague Spitter. I remember this buy being great against merfolk back in Masques/Invasion Standard. In this deck, he still does that quite well with a few extra added friends to be more powerful! The best way to utilise him is putting a Basilisk Collar on him, making him a board Sweeper, whilst gaining you a bunch of life. If you cannot wait for your next upkeep, just equip and then sacrifice him to Therapy or Innocent Blood. This little trick will kill nearly everything on the board, including all merfolk, Emrakul, Goyf, goblins, etc. Unfortunately, it doesn't kill Pro, but if that's the case, we have innocent blood and SBed Gatekeepers for that.
It's my little take of it. I haven't done too much testing, but I do like Spitter in place of Gatekeeper. Both kill creatures, both effectively costs 3 (spitter only takes one black, making mana better), both swing for 2, but spitter has the potential to kill more creatures and can deal more damage to your opponent.
Hmm, this is an interesting combo. But again, as has been mentioned many times before, splashing white for swords and stoneforge feels a lot like deadguy ale. Is losing invulnerability against wasteland really worth it I wonder? While stoneforge is kick-ass (instant card advantage if resolved) and swords is simply the best removal spell in the game, I feel that a loss in the stability of our mana base is the one thing that the Gate cannot endure. Besides that however, I think it's a solid list, though I still remain unconvinced about Plague Spitter. It has no synergy with confidant, which is essential in the deck, and though I do like the idea of a Plague-Collar combo, I think it's more like a kool trick than something that would work every time. Gatekeeper IS after-all the namesake of the deck. Would the deck be called "the Spitter"??The biggest change is my swapping out Gatekeeper for Plague Spitter. I remember this buy being great against merfolk back in Masques/Invasion Standard. In this deck, he still does that quite well with a few extra added friends to be more powerful! The best way to utilise him is putting a Basilisk Collar on him, making him a board Sweeper, whilst gaining you a bunch of life.The thing is Gatekeeper works wonder in isolation. The opponent drops a baneslayer? What do you do next? Assuming you have the spitter out, you will have to somehow get stoneforge -> collar -> play the collar -> equip -> then find a way to sac it before you die from a big ass creature. It works well when you have the pieces, but I don't see that happening regularly on a consistent basis. Might work well in the sideboard, given that your meta is full of aggro. In other words, Gatekeeper-more efficient; Spitter - has potentially huge potential for massive wipes, but the fact that it is a two-three card combo negates it as a viable play. Also with the prevalence of removal: equip collar --> in response Swords to Plowshares. Also, from my experience life is extremely important for the gate AND seeing how you run fetches AND thoughtseizes, your life is going plummet especially since you already have bob.
What I thought would be better:
-4 Thoughtseizes +4 duress (you run SOO much removal that getting that creature is not worth the life)
-4 Spitter +4 Gatekeeper (see above; but I can see how spitter would work with your vulnerable mana base =T)
-1 cabal therapy +1 hymn to tourach: tourach is the bomb; cabal therapy if you miss is loss in card advantage (at least at first)
-1 Collar + 1 Jitte; since you don't have spitters, then jittes are way better; odds are that your opponent has it too so you can never have too many jittes. (I do like the two swords though for tooling)
I generally agree, though I would never take out too many dark confidants versus any matchup. We need the card advantage. I would: -2 duress - 1 cabal -1 bitterblossom for +3 spinning darkness +1 sword.Here is what i would board in the following order: out <-> in VERSUS matchup
3 Deathmark <-> 3 Spinning Darkness VERSUS Aggro (non green/white) Decks, like Goblins and Merfolk
1 Hymn to Tourach, 1 Cabal Therapy, 1 Duress <-> 3 Pithing Needle VERSUS Vialgoblins, Merfolk, Jace, Death and Taxes
3 Deathmark <-> 3 Dystopia VERSUS Enchantress/ Solitary Confinement
3 Deathmark, 1 Hymn to Tourach <-> 4 Leyline of the Void VERSUS Reanimator, Dredge
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir, 1 Innocent Blood <-> 1 Hymn to Tourach,1 Sword of Light and Shadow VERSUS random u/w control builds and Landstill-archetypes
4 Dark Confidant <-> 3 Spinning Darkness, 1 Sword of Light/Shadow VERSUS Zoo
Also, you never see goblin decks by themselves anymore right? I always see a vial from them....
Great synergy!
You can wait for your next upkeep.
BTW spitter+collar+SoLS mean that you and your opponent will never have creatures except spitter itself. Until it gets sworded of course. And to play Progenitus opp must play both a creature and Natural Order in one turn.
Brandon, your deck should be titled Left4Dead. :DI like the deck idea, but I'm not sure it's viable, because of the lack of acceleration.
Wow!! The idea of the 'Spitter is just so fun!!! I'm not sure if itcould work because it utilizes quite a few slots to get on board, but it's so funny! I'll try it! Btw doen't spitter die to itself since of the deathtouch given by the collar?
If so SoLaS should be added...
In my testing i didn't feel the urge to splash the deck another color, the deck is fine as it is! Mmmm... Maybe -1 Wasteland + 1 Swamp though.. Sometimes I get screwed..
Team Stimato
He told you a foil from Time Spiral was Summer?
This man must be a Jedi.
I really dislike the idea of the "Spitter+Collar" combo. It hits your own creatures just as hard, as it hits you opponentīs creatures - which is in my opinion a huge disadvantage, regarding the amount of creatures you play. Sure the lifegain and boardsweeping is nice, but without Sword of Light and Shadow, it is a blastout to clean the board including your own creatures for one time. I dont see why this would be better than letīs say a Damnation (which also is easier to play, than this combo is to set up).
Just think about it:
You need the Spitter, which is a 4-off, so you should be able to draw him.
You need the Basilisk Collar, which is a one off, but can be tutored via Stoneforge Mystic, just to get it running once, and the Sword of Light and Shadow, which is a one off too and also needs to be tutored for, to constantly run it.
In total that makes for 3 + 2 + 3 mana, plus the equip cost of 1 +2 (which is to be paid every round) plus the fact that you need to draw a Spitter and any combination of Stoneforge Mystic and the equippments plus you need all that to hit the board.
I think this is way too hard to be set up in a game where your opponent will in ANY way be able to meddle around with your plan. It does look fun on paper and is somewhat of a new idea, but i dont think it fits in here.
When I said that I was going to test it (and I will) I meant as a deck for fun. I'm not changing a single card in here atm. Except for those 2 slots I still have free in the SB..
Team Stimato
He told you a foil from Time Spiral was Summer?
This man must be a Jedi.
Pro-white from the sword prevents it from getting hit by StP/Path. Pro-black prevents it from dying to its own deathtouch. Just thought I'd mention that.
It's also a 4/4 lifelink deathtouch pro-white pro-black plus the healing salve and raise dead effects when it gets through. Seems pretty good on paper, especially when it's (theoretically) the only creature on the board. I know it's been said before, but good luck getting all three of them into play.
I've also been testing Phylactery Lich. I know I may be the only one, I just thought I'd mention my results. As far as artifacts, I have 4 MD Pithing Needle, 4 MD Lightning Greaves, and 3 MD Sword of Light and Shadow. Having this many artifacts ensures you draw just enough to play the Lich without making you warp your strategy. Then again, my strategy may be slightly different than other builds. All the equipment can be used to protect whatever creature it is on from the most common removal there is, and the Lich will ultimately win ground stalls if my fliers get removed. 4 Persecutor, 4 Nighthawk, 3 Bitterblossom is enough I think, although I may include Tombstalker somewhere. Space is tight. Innocent Blood and Gatekeeper go a long way, and Blossom is just awesome. I've had games where my opponent doesn't know whether to remove the Greaves and keep my Lich off the table, or remove the Blossom to stem the bleeding. Getting a double Blossom draw against a lone Pridemage made me giggle. Made them scoop. Turn 2 Greaves -> Turn 3 Lich kicks ass.
On that note, Greaves kicks ass. People seeing it fear my creature spells. It's almost like Monoblack Fires at some times.
I like to call it aggressively reactive.
Has anyone tested the Dredge MU? I still haven't but from how both decks play I think it's in their favour and not a 55/45 as Hollywood said.
@Hollywood: can you give some more details of your testings against this MU?
Team Stimato
He told you a foil from Time Spiral was Summer?
This man must be a Jedi.
So, i played again at my local Legacy Tournament.
I placed 7th out of 16 (i think it was 16) - prizes were handed out to the Top5, so i had to go home empty handed.
Let me give you a quick report/analysis how the tournament went for me:
Opponent 1 - Canadian Threshold (UGR)
There is not much to say about this match. I am his worst nightmare :)
His mana-denial-plan is useless against me, and the low creature count of 8, that he plays, makes it an easy 2-0 for me. I did not even need to board versus him. 2-0 for me.
Opponent 2 - 2 Land Belcher
Well, in the first game he can not manage to pull his combo off. Not because i disrupt him, but because he just has somewhat of a terrible draw.
Game 2 he manages to go into his combo on the first turn, i also need to mention that he could play first cause he lost game 1. Nothing i could have done here, he pulls 10 Goblin Tokens from Empty the Warrens and knocks me out in 2 turns.
Game 3 i mulligan down a bit, but he still eats me alive. Lets say, i should have mulliganīd down to 5 since you are just in desperate need of discard Turn 1. Kind of my mistake. 1-2 for me.
Opponent 3 - Green Combo (Rogue)
This was my highlight of the tournament. My opponent played a mono-green rogue deck that was innovative and fun to play against. Let me give you a quick overview of what his deck was trying to do:
He has those fat Eldrazi creatures - Emrakul, Ulamog and Kozilek. He has some interesting cards like Saproling Cluster, Micotic Slime and Saproling Burst and Ashnodīs Altar to get his mana. He did not have a chance versus my Abyssal Persecutor and did not manage to get one of those Eldrazi on the table in any of the 3 games we played. I saw him pulling turn 4 Emrakul though in many other games, but not versus me. His deck did not "like him", letīs just put it that way. 2-1 for me.
Opponent 4 - Lands
Is it a bad matchup or is it just me? Game 1 i have absolutely no chance versus his Loam engine. Game 2 i board in 4 Leyline of the Void, mulligan down to 6 and start with one in play, which is neckbreaking for him - easy win for me.
Game 3.....letīs say was epic. I mulligan down to 3. Yes, you heard me. I mulligan down to 3 because i need a Leyline so badly, and well, i dont get to see it. Not much else to say other than i was really pissed. Do the math, what chance do you have of not getting a 4-off card after 5 different hands. It sux, i loose. 1-2 for me.
I place 7th with about 4 other players that scored the same. I dont get to pick anything therefore.
Guess what made first place.
Zoo - what else :)
Here is a short list of Decks i saw there:
White-Staxx
Zoo
Dredge/Ichorid
Lands/Loam
Canadian
Mono Red Aggro
AggroLoam
Last edited by sporenfrosch1411; 09-05-2010 at 05:29 AM.
Playing local tournament last friday, made 9th place
1 round - 2:1 win vs Affinity
2 round - 2:0 win vs Dragon Stompy
3 round - 0:2 lose vs BWG Fish
4 round - 1:2 lose vs Ichorid
Playing - The Gate; Spring Tide
Building - LEDless Ichorid; Merfolks
This was at a point in time where I ran Faerie Macabre main-deck. I had never lost a round to Dredge at that point in time. I am in the process of putting it back into the main.
Dredge has a tendency to obviously mulligan very aggressively.When you factor in discard elements to hit their key spells (on the play) along with cards like Faerie Macabre in the main, you already have an upper hand to cripple their early game and retroactively force them to wait it out several turns before they can get anything going. It really all depends on your sideboard; there are plenty of options to assist in the match. Our plays can severely cripple them (Dredge) on the play, and depending on how strong of a start we get, we can stunt their action quite early.
There are plenty of ways to also nix Bridges in here with cards like Innocent Blood and Gatekeeper of Malakir. I've never had much of a problem with Dredge, but in my testing I've found The gate to have a slight advantage based on surprise removal and a punishing offensive.
I attended 2 tournaments this week.
The List:
[4x] Abyssal Persecutor
[4x] Gatekeeper of Malakir
[4x] Dark Confidant
[4x] Vampire Nighthawk
[4x] Duress
[4x] Innocent Blood
[3x] Smother
[3x] Cabal Therapy
[3x] Hymn to Tourach
[3x] Umezawa's Jitte
[3x] Bitterblossom
[17x] Swamp
[4x] Wasteland
//Sideboard
[4x] Extirpate
[3x] Pithing Needle
[3x] Spinning Darkness
[3x] Dystopia
[2x] Tormod's Crypt
Saturday:
It was a small local tournament to test for the following day. About 12 people + top 4
Round 1: Elves
1: Whatever he lands is killed/sacrificed and a Persecutor ends the game quickly-
2: Dystopia was so fun in this MU! It resets the board in a few turns and Persecutor does the job.
2-0
Round 2: Mono B (I showed a friend THE GATE) and he changed the list a bit..
1: We both emptied each other's hands and he starts beating me with a threat. I have a Jitte, but no creature. As soon as I see one (Persecutor) I win.
2: Don't remember why, but it was just easy and win.
2-0
Round 3: Phatty Boom (Dark Depths + Stiflenaught + CB + 13 Counters)
1: I start discarding and beating with creatures, but he lands 2 Dreadnought and I lose. And CB.
2: I Extirpate his Vampire Hexmage and play Cabal Therapy on Stifle/Dreadnought). Bob goes the way. Had to dodge CB triggers..
3: Discard + Sacrifice bring the game home.
2-1
Round 4: Vengevine Survival
We are both in top 4, so we ID and get something to drink.
Round 5 (top 4): Against W/B Weenie
1: I keep a 1 lander and don't draw any for many turns. He then Vindicates my land. I then start drawing some and kill some threats and land Jitte + Persecutor. He has an empty hand and draws PtE. I lose. My mistake of keeping that hand.
2: Jitte brings the game home.
3: We have both empty hands and just lands + I have Bitterblossom. He lands a Top and starts doing his job. He finds an Engineered Plague and casts it on Faerie. Great. I then draw 1 Duress, 1 Hymn and 7 lands.. Terrible draws: lose the game.
1-2
Sunday:
A nice tournament with more than 80 people.
Round 1: Faeries
1: He counters some stuff that I bait him and I make him discard some cards. Persecutor does the job.
2: I am in screw because of a double Wasteland and 1 Swamp.. He rolls me over with Bitterblossom + Jitte + Scion of Oona.
3: We both have empty hands and I land a Bob. He goes the distance since he has an empty hand all game and I refuel it.I also have a Jitte with 9 counters on it when the game ends!
2-1
Round 2: UW Tempo
1: Don't remember, but I win.
2: Vial + Jitte from his part win close the game.
3: I just discard his counters and kill his creatures.
2-1
Round 3: RG Goblins (great player, really strong)
1: I kill some threats and land a Persecutor + Nighthawk + Gatekeeper. He is going to die, but kills my Persecutor and I die next turn with loads of damage.
2: I open with Cabal Therapy, and call Lackey. Got it! He also has vial, but I manage to cast Innocent Blood + Smother and win with Persecutor.
3: He starts with Vial. I start with Pithing Needle. I land threats and remove his. I Waste a Taiga as soon as I see it. Persecutor + Nighthawk close the deal.
2-1
Round 4: Bant without CB
1: I open with 2 Swamps and a nice hand and keep. Discard his hand and never see another land. Lose.
2: Same as before.
0-2
Round 5: Landstill
1: This was a nearly impossible MU. He plays 3 Standstill that I have to break, and plays EE, Shackles, Elspeth, Jace 2.0
2: Worst than before. Even with Extirpate and Pithing Needle I can't do much, just slow him down. He ends the game with Elspeth, Jace 2.0 and Ajani (R/W).
0-2
Round 6: Survival Madness Vengevine against a friend
1: I mull to 5 and lose immediately.
2: On my third turn he has 3 cards in hand and 1 survival on the table. I have to try Dystopia. He forces. Then Vengevines hurt.
0-2
Round 6: Survival Madness Vengevine
1: I start with Duress. Take out the Counter. He plays Hierarch that dies i my turn. Blossom + Nighthawk win.
2: Bob + Jitte win. I was also holding Extirpate in hand.
This guy was angry at me.
2-0
So I ended up with a terrible 4-3...............
Except against Landstill that is a terrible MU the other games that I lost were because of land screw. This sucks. Anyways the deck is great!
The side was nothing exceptional. Boarded in Spinning Darkness against Goblins, but didn't see any. Extirpate was great and Dystopia will probably be a 4 of. Then I just have to understand how to improve the heavy control MU (Jace Control, Landstill).
Btw I'm happy about playing Smother instead of Deathmark and the whole deck was good..
Team Stimato
He told you a foil from Time Spiral was Summer?
This man must be a Jedi.
I have to admit my deck shone in that round, drawing nearly everything. G2 I had some nice tricks (brainstorm to make you believe I hid force) and all, but topdecked all my wincons after shuffling with ponder or fetch. G2 you also screwed and Ajani did his job, and it was really unexpected for you. The fact is, if you don't land bob o aren't able to protect him via discard you can't do very much. Pithing Needle only slows me down a little since I have more wincons than you have needles or extirpates. However, the round before a player had sided against me Dystopia, and it really hurted, getting rid of ajani vengent (when it had 8 counters on it, damn!) and elspeth (after having bolt a token). Since it is very unlikely that I bring disenchant effect against you, maybe dystopia can be a good strategy. Contamination may have a spot too.
Besides this I love this deck, too bad I don't have the cards to build it!
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