[Deck] Spanish Inquisition (B/x Storm Combo)

[Vacrix]

I wouldn't cut Chrome Mox man. Its just too good against control.

I did ALOT of testing with a fetchlands list. It just gives your opponent the option to shut down your lands with Stifle allowing them to instead save all their other countermagic for the business spells. Also, you will run into problems sometimes when you have 2 lands in hand and can't make the IT line of play because its not a Land Grant. The beautiful thing about land Grant is that you can cast it and not find a land if you want to just get rid of it or add to the spell count. Also, its convenient to invest your resources into Belcher because you can dilute the maindeck with all sorts of extra protection without having to worry about getting a long spell chain into Tendrils, even setting up the IGG loop is still putting all your eggs into one basket. Its really easy to play a protected Belcher.

Besides, often times I can just ghost control players in G1 simply because the maindeck is optimized to win fast consistently.

Maelstrom Pulse is a huge investment. Why play that over more discard or Nature's Claim? Both serve their purpose for 1CC.

Also, why are you boarding in Manamorphose? Play around Chalice? I'm thinking you could probably board in something better.

[the resurrection]

I wouldn't cut Chrome Mox man. Its just too good against control.

I nerver missed the 4th Chrome mox, I replaced him with an ESG to make Witness stronger. Against Staxx/Lands (G2) mox is useless, against U we board CFlower.
@ fetchlands
of course LG is in an extremly fast version better, but a list with 4 protection spells is in most cases a turn slower and gives your opp. more time to interact in the game.
+ you can play around wasteland
+ surprise your opp. with Arbor--> block lacky or canonist
+ you don't miss your landdop if you're on the play, that can be problematic with LG
+ No information to your opp.
+ Gives false information to your opp. especially if you begin with duress.
+ basic swamp
- No Belcher
- sometimes the IT problem
- 1 Life

It just gives your opponent the option to shut down your lands with Stifle allowing them to instead save all their other countermagic for the business spells.

Land Grant can be snared, dazed or pierced, your opp. knows your next actions and will certainly use his drawspells to find more counters. I think a Stifle on a fetchland is better than on tendrils, isn't it ?

Maelstrom Pulse is a huge investment. Why play that over more discard or Nature's Claim? Both serve their purpose for 1CC.

I know. Games against Lands or Staxx are long and double Chalices aren't rare. During the game we have enough time to build up our manabase and hurt them with our removal.

Also, why are you boarding in Manamorphose? Play around Chalice? I'm thinking you could probably board in something better.

To be faster than other decks, like Ichorid, TES or goblins, because my list can be slow sometimes and to make the Staxx matchup better. That were my thoughts, but there are better alternatives.

[Vacrix]

Actually I'd say that Chrome Mox is really important to winning the Stax matchup. Laying down resources right away is such a huge asset. And against U.dec you want as many staying mana sources as well. Having to invest something like Lotus Petal or ESG x2 + Manamorphose makes trading with countermagic less profitable for the control player. If we get to keep our Chrome Mox and then invest Ritual + D4, vs. FoW + Blue card, then we are even. If you are investing a Lotus Petal though, then its a 2 for 3 instead of a 2 for 2, which can make all the difference in the long run.

Stifle on a fetchland actually isn't better than a Stifle on Land Grant. The point is that you can't even get to the point at which you can even cast a lethal Tendrils if you lose your LG. This won't happen all the time, but you can play around Stifle with Belcher.

Malestrom Pulse looks decent against Stax. It would be significantly better if you could cast it off of a Ritual. I like Tomb of Urami for that matchup just because a turn 1, 4 turn evasive clock is a pretty good bet. Belchers are great too.
If you really want to beat Stax though, Seeds of Innocence looks much stronger. Getting to GG might be hard.. but in a Stax heavy metagame, I'd probably want to board in more Bayous anyway. Also, you'd normally think that your opponent might be gaining a shit ton of life here... but usually Stax is liberal with its lifetotal, especially when it already has a lock piece out.

[B.C.]

Mox Opal {0}
Legendary Artifact
{Tap}: add one mana of any color if you control 3 or more artifacts.

Memnite {0}
Artifact Creature - Construct
1/1

Sweet holy Jesus. I am officially interested in this deck again.

EDIT:

You could definitely realistically run a 0-land version of this deck now. Right now I'm trying out a 1-land version similar to what I ran several years ago:

4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 LED
4 D Rit
4 C Rit
4 Culling the Weak
4 Memnite
4 Shield Sphere
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Infernal Contract
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Land Grant
1 Bayou
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
2 Tendrils
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Slithermuse

I was skeptical of Slithermuse before, but now I think Mox Opal (another way to make U) makes it really really good.

[Vacrix]

Wow, Mox Opal is definitely abusable in some version of SI. It looks best in the tall man lists, but with longer spell chains I think its even playable as a 2'of or something in PSI.

In that list, I'm not sure that x4 Mox Opal is the right call. You don't want dead cards in hand off your draw4's unless you can sacrifice one of the Mox's some how so that you can take advantage of the other Mox's you might draw. It looks better as a 2 or 3'of.

Memnite I'm not so optimistic about. It looks far more abusable in some sort Glimpse of Nature + Retract deck. x12 tallman is probably too many if you aren't also running something like Diabolic Intent.

[Jonathan Alexander]

I don't think Memnite and Mox Opal will be good in SI. Mox Opal might be playable in QSI, but I don't think it really makes the cut. Memnite on the other hand seems cute, but it doesn't do anything we don't already have. I mean it trades with Goblin Lackey, but seriously, Goblins is a bye. Even with Glimpse it does nothing we don't already have. If Skullclamp was legal, things would look differently, but it isn't, so whatever.
Anyway, yesterday I figured there's little reason too run one of the slower SI-lists over traditional TES. It might be a playstyle-choice but in my opinion TES is basically strictly better. It might be a bit slower and less versatile but it has better protection and better ways to set up. Plus it isn't as draw-dependant as SI is, which is really good.
With that in mind I slightly changed my list. I cut Simian Spirit Guides, Kobolds, two lands and changed my protection suite. I threw in Summoner's Pact, Elvish Spirit Guides, Pact targets and Xantid Swarm.
I came up with the following list:

//Lands
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest

//Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Slithermuse
1 Tinder Wall
1 Tukatongue Thallid
1 Wild Cantor
2 Xantid Swarm

//Spells
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Chrome Mox
4 Cruel Bargain
4 Culling The Weak
4 Dark Ritual
1 Empty The Warrens
3 Infernal Contract
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Tendrils Of Agony

//Sideboard
1 Diminishing Returns
3 Duress
1 Deathmark
3 Empty The Warrens
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Reverent Silence
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tendrils Of Agony
2 Xantid Swarm

I really like it, but I'm not entirely sold on Tukatongue Thallid. In general this is the flex-slot in my list. I didn't really need until now. At first I had Eternal Witness in that slot but in about 50 testgames I used only once and it was often just a dead card clogging my hand. Then I tried out Skyshroud Cutter but I didn't like that one either, it's a bit too situational. Then I switched to Tukatongue Thallid and it has at least been okay. I think the next thing I'll try out is just adding the third Xantid Swarm mainboard.
The sideboard. Well basically I just kept the board I've been playing with SITES. So far I used exactly three cards from the board: Tendrils, Ill-Gotten Gains and Diminishing Returns. I guess it needs a bit more tweaking and a bit less wish-targets since the deck has become a lot faster. But to be honest I really don't know were to start. We'll see, maybe I'l be doing some more testing today. But so far I've been really happy with the list, it actually feels more like SI again and less like playing worse-protected TES, so that's pretty cool.

[the resurrection]

Mox opal will be very nice in the oldschool list. Memnite is bad.

Made 3rd at my local tournament.
Lost to Dreadstill
Won games against MBC, D&T, merfolk

[B.C.]

Ok, Memnite might not actually make much of a difference, especially considering the goal of the deck. Robots with bigger asses are still probably the way to go.

For anyone still skeptical about Mox Opal, please playtest with it a little. I've been playing around with a 4x build (listed above), and it has been completely awesome. I always have at least 3 artifacts in play, and drawing multiples doesn't suck as bad as you would think, because by that point you are probably already rolling. Slithermuse is also pretty awesome with Mox Opal. I'm thinking about bumping up the count to 3x.

[the resurrection]

@ BC
What about Ancient Stirrings ? With such a high artifact count, it's a an Impulse for G.

[Dark Ritual]

I'm thinking of building a different sort of glimpse SI list once SoM comes out...there will be 16 0 costing artifact creatures post SoM at minimum and mox opal would be good in a list with 16 tallmen all of which are artifacts. Glimpse would be an insane engine with 16 tallmen and if you resolve two glimpses with some tallmen in hand it is basically GG's since you can draw so many cards to combo out with. I'll playtest it a little when I have some spare time and try to tweak some numbers around. And thanks for the retract idea Vacrix; retract would be like an ancestral recall in a list with glimpse and lots of tall men and it raises the storm count dramatically since it bounces all your chrome moxen, mox opal, tallmen, petals, and LED's allowing you to get bonus points when you tendrils some for 80+ damage lol. It also accelerates mana with chrome mox being tapped for mana and then getting the bounce back and then replaying it to provide more mana.

[Vacrix]

I don't think Memnite and Mox Opal will be good in SI. Mox Opal might be playable in QSI, but I don't think it really makes the cut. Memnite on the other hand seems cute, but it doesn't do anything we don't already have. I mean it trades with Goblin Lackey, but seriously, Goblins is a bye. Even with Glimpse it does nothing we don't already have. If Skullclamp was legal, things would look differently, but it isn't, so whatever.
Anyway, yesterday I figured there's little reason too run one of the slower SI-lists over traditional TES. It might be a playstyle-choice but in my opinion TES is basically strictly better. It might be a bit slower and less versatile but it has better protection and better ways to set up. Plus it isn't as draw-dependant as SI is, which is really good.

I really like it, but I'm not entirely sold on Tukatongue Thallid. In general this is the flex-slot in my list. I didn't really need until now. At first I had Eternal Witness in that slot but in about 50 testgames I used only once and it was often just a dead card clogging my hand. Then I tried out Skyshroud Cutter but I didn't like that one either, it's a bit too situational. Then I switched to Tukatongue Thallid and it has at least been okay. I think the next thing I'll try out is just adding the third Xantid Swarm mainboard.
The sideboard. Well basically I just kept the board I've been playing with SITES. So far I used exactly three cards from the board: Tendrils, Ill-Gotten Gains and Diminishing Returns. I guess it needs a bit more tweaking and a bit less wish-targets since the deck has become a lot faster. But to be honest I really don't know were to start. We'll see, maybe I'l be doing some more testing today. But so far I've been really happy with the list, it actually feels more like SI again and less like playing worse-protected TES, so that's pretty cool.

I'm not sure yet where Mox will fit in, but it looks good right now even just as a 1'of in any list with tallmen.

SITES and QSI are arguably just as good as TES is in the hands of a skilled pilot. You forget that being draw dependent in this case is a very good thing. In SITES you have the option to trade Ritual + D4 with the opponents FoW + blue card. If it goes through you just acquired +2 cards worth of resources, and you can continue that until ToA, EtW, or IT... or play some drawn protection. The ability to go off every 2 or 3 turns puts the control player under mad pressure to constantly come up with countermagic. TES doesn't have that luxury as it usually goes for one big turn. Even with cantrips, TES can't rebuild as fast as SI can because SI doesn't have to invest as many resources into its combo turn. Remember, TES is a business light combo deck. SITES is also faster than TES, and can support Cabal Therapy. QSI is actually SI designed to beat control. Much like TES, it also runs cantrips so that it can setup and it also plays a Cabal Therapy protection suit. Unlike TES, it has access to EOT Meditates and can apply the same pressure with D4's that SITES can due to a more land-focused manabase, unlike the LG lists.
TES obviously has its merits as well but I wouldn't dismiss slower lists as inferior to TES.

For anyone still skeptical about Mox Opal, please playtest with it a little. I've been playing around with a 4x build (listed above), and it has been completely awesome. I always have at least 3 artifacts in play, and drawing multiples doesn't suck as bad as you would think, because by that point you are probably already rolling. Slithermuse is also pretty awesome with Mox Opal. I'm thinking about bumping up the count to 3x.

Nice. Let me know how you alter your list so I can test it after this weekend. I can't test Mox at the moment because I'm preparing for a tournament later tonight.

I'm thinking of building a different sort of glimpse SI list once SoM comes out...there will be 16 0 costing artifact creatures post SoM at minimum and mox opal would be good in a list with 16 tallmen all of which are artifacts. Glimpse would be an insane engine with 16 tallmen and if you resolve two glimpses with some tallmen in hand it is basically GG's since you can draw so many cards to combo out with. I'll playtest it a little when I have some spare time and try to tweak some numbers around. And thanks for the retract idea Vacrix; retract would be like an ancestral recall in a list with glimpse and lots of tall men and it raises the storm count dramatically since it bounces all your chrome moxen, mox opal, tallmen, petals, and LED's allowing you to get bonus points when you tendrils some for 80+ damage lol. It also accelerates mana with chrome mox being tapped for mana and then getting the bounce back and then replaying it to provide more mana.

I worked on a non-SI Glimpse list a while back than ran Retract and Glimpse, but it just turned into a Kobold list because I didn't have enough artifacts dudes to take advantage of Retract. Scapegoat is just as good, but you lose -1 dude. You could also use Shared Discovery.

[prgmctan]

Hey Vacrix, I'm completely new here, but I've been following this thread for a couple days. I'm running a modified version of the listed you posted somewhere back on page 5 or so. I haven't gotten to test against anyone yet, so for now I've just been goldfishing. When you said that you could conceivably go off every 2-3 turns, I'm wondering how true that actually is. If I understand it correctly, you can only use your draw 4's four times. If you use it a 5th time, it kills you. Also, even if you use it twice, you're at 5. It's fine if you're combo-ing, but if you fizzle, I'm wondering how often you just die next turn. Anyway, really enjoyed the primer and discussion and I hope to eventually get all the cards needed and start playing it.

[Jodahae]

I find that the life loss due to D4's isnt a problem, as if you are playing against aggro you can slow down and craft a hand that can go all in after a turn or two following a draw 4. More than 1 D4 though against aggro and yes you may find yourself in a tight spot, but even if you lose your first game it should be relatively easy to rebound g2 and 3. Against control they lack so few legitimate threats that even after a d4 or even two they still have a glacially slow kill, usually 2 or more swings.

On mox opel, i really like it. I personally play PSI so im looking at using a 2x probably, but for other variants its looking extremely promising, i am especially interested in seeing some glimpse decks developed to abuse all the tall men now available.

[Dark Ritual]

I also saw shared discovery today in the common's bin and thought "This card is tech in a creature heavy build of SI sure I'll tap 4 dudes to draw 3 for U. You probably don't want 4 though; I'll try it as a 2 of my the glimpse list I'm developing. Scapegoat would be retract numbers 5-8 if I need that many retract effects; Personally I'll try 2 in the first list I goldfish because having your hand clogged wouldn't be a good thing because retract while useful on the defense with tall men might be a dead card at times.

Mox opal looks promising though.

Shared discovery is going to see some play though which I find funny because at first I thought the card was utter jank; now I can actually abuse it in SI of all decks. That is some really sweet tech though.

[prgmctan]

So I was thinking that as a way for us all to learn how to play this deck better, we could post the ways we've fizzled and others could take a look to see if it could have been played differently. Thoughts?

[nodahero]

So a fewquick scenario based questions if I may.

When playing LGSI if you have the following opening hand do you keep versus blue and non-blue and also, if you keep do you imprint Rit or Draw 4 on Mox? and also do you go for it first turn on the play or wait for the extra card?
The hand is:
2x Dark Ritual
2x BBB Draw 4
2X Tallmen
1x Chrome Mox

PS With the following opening hand do you Land Grant->Bayou->Dark Rit-> Draw 4 or do you Cabal Rit->Draw 4? On the play and also the draw. Thanks.
1x Land Grant
1x Dark Rit
1x BBB Draw 4
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Tallman
1x Infernal Tutor

PPS Is the following a mull hand?
2x BBB Draw 4
2x LED
2x Tallmen
1x Chrome Mox
1x Cabal Ritual

[the resurrection]

1. Depends on your opponent.
If it's an deck like Zoo I would lay down the tallman and wait 1,2 or 3 turns.
Against U you should wait for your 8th card before you start the chain.
If you want to go all-in T1, you should imprint your Draw4.

2.
LG->DR-> Draw4
To start with DR is always better than CR. Another thing that you can do is LG->DR->CR->draw 4 (If therapy should be a ritual)

3. Depends again
against Zoo keep -> Tallmen. On the draw keep. On the play against U-> mulligan.

[prgmctan]

Is Xantid Swarm more effective than Autumn Veil?

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I get the feeling a lot of these questions would be answered by playing against an actual opponent a few times (rather than just goldfishing). Just use MWS or something.

To give the guy above me a non-facetious (and fairly obvious) answer though, Veil is really, really good because you can use it in response to a counterspell. On the other hand, Swarm is a perpetual resource for you, and he will either eat a counter or force them to dig for removal (which they may have boarded out, in which case mwahahah...) Swarm is also good because you don't have to keep mana open for using it on your fundamental turn. However, it's a little less inexorable because of the whole "dies to removal" thing. So basically: it's kind of a toss-up?

EDIT: Also, I'm liking Mox Opal a lot, at least on paper, haven't tested with it yet. Anyways though, adding mana of any color, and not eating two cards out of our hand (versus Chrome Mox)... These are pretty insane incentives to tweak some lists a bit to include this thing, I think. I don't think it will replace Chrome Mox, but I'm pretty sure they seem awesome together, in decks that use sacrificial robots.

[B.C.]

So a fewquick scenario based questions if I may.
When playing LGSI if you have the following opening hand do you keep versus blue and non-blue and also, if you keep do you imprint Rit or Draw 4 on Mox? and also do you go for it first turn on the play or wait for the extra card?
The hand is:
2x Dark Ritual
2x BBB Draw 4
2X Tallmen
1x Chrome Mox

That's a keeper. Regardless of what you're playing against. I would imprint a D4, then to DRit, DRit, Draw4. It is always better to Draw4 with extra black mana floating. If you know for sure that your opponent is playing blue, I suppose you could save your second DRit, but I would rather just go for it. If possible, don't wait for them to play a land otherwise you have to worry about Daze, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, and Stifle.

PS With the following opening hand do you Land Grant->Bayou->Dark Rit-> Draw 4 or do you Cabal Rit->Draw 4? On the play and also the draw. Thanks.
1x Land Grant
1x Dark Rit
1x BBB Draw 4
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Tallman
1x Infernal Tutor

Is that Cabal Rit or Cabal Therapy? If it's the former, I would go LG, Bayou, DRit, CRit, Draw4. If it's the latter, I would go LG, Bayou, Therapy, Robot, Flashback for something important. Draw 4 on your second turn.

PPS Is the following a mull hand?
2x BBB Draw 4
2x LED
2x Tallmen
1x Chrome Mox
1x Cabal Ritual

Mulligan.