I totally agree with you Cap'n. Playing this list with less than 11+ Mountains = horrible manascrews. You just can't add more expensive cards in a balanced deck without increasing even a little the mana production. You need to cast Koth first to get his mana boosts, remember boys? That's 3x2RR, not 3x2R or 3x3R anymore.Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
About Kargan and Mauler...they are less aggressive than RPD and Raiders respectively. What I had in mind was to test 1-2 Akromas again. But it's very irritating to rely on a 6 mana ability, and I want 3 Trinispheres in.
@ mercs:
Golem and Phoenix could work against black, but when you play vs. 4 Sinkholes,etc., it's hard to reach even 4 mana. And he won't make you discard your Phoenix. Unless you wait for a Raider (unreliable plan), Phoenix will sit tight in your hand for a long time. Plus...will you have 3 artifacts down to activate the metalcraft ability? I also tried to leave at least 1 SB slot against those black decks you mention. Goblin Assault works very well, if you're lucky and hit your 1-2 copies!
As for the largest creatures, read Tacosnape's first post in page 131 guys..Blasts hit Show and Tell. 4 Crypts/Faeries and Chalices can stop Reanimators (Iona) long enough for you to do your dirty job. And your resolved hellbent dragons of course are faster. Also accept that you can't always win, especially when you don't play first=)
In addition...vs. Emrakul, Progenitus & company...if on the play, I play a first turn Moon and/or a chalice @ 0. No colored mana, no moxes for him(and later for you also, but just make this sacrifice), no lotus petals = no green mana => no Eureka. And Pithing Needle stops Sneak Attack.
A few guys played Mindbreak Trap (SB), as a 1st turn on the draw + anti-combo solution I guess. I like that...but damn, there is hardly any space. Maybe we should dedicate a little bit more thought to sideboard design from now on...specialised and generic sideboards. I wouldn't omit the 4 Needles and the 4 Faeries/Crypts. After these critical 8, I replaced Jaya with a 3rd Pyroblast, and I'm thinking of banning that single Jitte for a 4th Blast. The latter due to the 3+ Sloggers' direct damage and to Koth's ulti. Maybe we can make it quite well even without our old red sweepers (Pyroclasm-kinesis). The rest for me are 2xAnarchy(true love), and 1 Rack and Ruin.
EDIT: Would you play Pyroblast... in order to be able to target any spell or permanent; and so to be able to get rid of it and reach hellbent anytime?
Or Red Elemental Blast which is immune to Misdirection and stupid stuff like that? Remember that we play Trinispheres which hurt Misdirection anyway. On the other hand think that we would sideboard in the Pyroblasts only against blue, so I don't know if finding a random target to empty our hand is really a problem. Maybe against decks splashing 1/3 blue it could be.
For the ones who think I'm raving in chinese, read the second paragraph here: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...gcom/daily/bb4
Last edited by 0dysseus; 09-17-2010 at 02:37 AM.
- Where are the *dragons* in this list?
- I am the dragon in this list.
Yea, I still agree that koth is leading the pack well.
As for goblin assault, I think it's awesome against sui black/gate type decks. The decks I'm having trouble with are the eva green/rock type decks. They tend to run a medium amount of basics, and deeds and pulses seem to collapse our softlocks at will. I personally just don't like the idea of not getting a 1/60 sb card to try to take a game. XD
I do the same strategy against show and tell decks. I definitely like my matchup better than eva green.
I'm more afraid of iona in survival builds just bc they can stabilize a situation more, until they ultimately lock the game away.
With more aggressive DS builds, I say pyroblast. In decks that actually do use misdirection, they hate trading attrition against DS. 2 for 1 on pyroblast (which is usually a 3 for 2 in counterwars) puts you in a good place regardless. If your manacurve is high, then I say go for the REB.
hi guys, i was looking for a thread about demigod stompy but i didnt find it, so since it's kinda similar in a way to dragon stompy i decided to write it here. it looks like a cheap and cool deck, so am i here to ask a few questions about it?
@ Augustas: ask away...but you'll find no Demidod here:) You don't wanna play spells with more than two red mana in their cost. Read the last pages of the thread to get an idea.
@mercs: I don't like "the idea of not getting a 1/60 sb card to try to take a game" either, but what else can you do if you definitely want 13-14 other certain cards in the SB? If you dislike a match so much, you can only put 1-2 copies of your hatecard in the slots that are left.
It's only natural for decks which run a medium amount of basics to create problems, even more if they belong in the Green-Black area, which Red doesn't hate directly. That's why I tried Aftershock main, to have a generic solution and be able to destroy a basic, but you really can't play more than 2 max without increasing the land count. And if the opponent plays a lot of basics, it won't work as land-destroyer. But I think Koth will be good as an anti Green and Black card, in an indirect way. With his mana boost he should be antagonistic against B & G, his 4/4 elemental is a good rival against early Goyfs and fast black threats, his "Mountain-shooting" can clear out numerous pesky creatures, and he can't be killed with most black removal spells (planeswalker), just like Goblin Assault. Neither the 4/4 can be killed via Wrath effects.
Also listen to this..some guy "Conelead" posted this in another site:
"Both Humility's setting of the p/t to 1/1 and the factory ability's setting of the creature to 2/2 apply in the same layer, thus they are applied in timestamp order. That means Humility will be applied first, then the Factory's activation ability will be applied, making it a 2/2. The other part of Humility still applies as normal, thus Factory is a 2/2 without any abilities. "
Thus,I think Koth beats Humility too...;) However, can a reanimated 4/4 mountain be tapped and produce one more mana in that scenario?
EDIT: For those who love Powder Keg, check out the new artifact, "Ratchet Bomb":
{ 2} (mana cost)
Artifact Rare
{T}: Put a charge counter on Ratchet Bomb.
{T}, Sacrifice Ratchet Bomb, destroy each nonland permanent with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Ratchet Bomb.
EDIT 2: [Card explanation error removed.]
Last edited by 0dysseus; 09-20-2010 at 02:52 PM. Reason: new card & error correction
- Where are the *dragons* in this list?
- I am the dragon in this list.
Demigod stompy is an extended port of the legacy deck. It works less well in Legacy than in extended because it relies on ritual effects (desperate Rituals and Rite of Flames), which means that you have to sideboard your trinospheres and chalices. Chalices and Trinospheres are about 10000x more useful in Legacy than in extended, because things like Brainstorm, Swords to Plowshares, Goblin Lackey, exploration and Llanower Elf mean that most decks are heavily reliant on their one drops, which 3spheres and chalices disrupt. Also, the availability of things like Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors gives your artifact disruption more quickly and without the card disadvanage of ritual effects . . . but at the cost of having less red mana. This means that Deus of Calamity is very very poor for Legacy Red Stompy, not because of what he does, but because of his mana cost.
Rishadan Port is like scuba gear.
--FoulQ
Ratchet bomb is the same speed as keg, RTFC. You may use first counter the next turn You play it.
You are right, I missed the simple fact that you can tap it on the same turn you play it, in order to put a counter and use it next turn for 1 cmc cards, etc... Same speed with Keg allright. Could you tell us what -RTFC- means friend? I am not familiar with that kind of jargon..
- Where are the *dragons* in this list?
- I am the dragon in this list.
That means Read The Fuckin Card.
But I'm in doubt if such an aggressive language is really necessary only because someone didn't read a card properly.
Thanx Dark-0.. I figured out what he meant. I just wanted him to answer and gain even more of his wisdom about deckbuilding.
Mistakes are made even by guys who count 3000+ posts here. If you flame again, I'll have to report you. Please RT#R(ules) before creating an account in a serious site, or just visit 'tube for lots of FF (Flaming Fun!!)
I think Rachet Bomb gives the cheapest access to "remove-everything" (of a certain manacost) for every single-color deck. That's quite revolutionary isn't it? It gives Dragon Stompy the chance to destroy enchantments. Obviously excluding 3 mana cost enchantments and other permanents most of the time, due to your Moons, Magi and Trinispheres.
Last edited by 0dysseus; 09-20-2010 at 10:31 PM.
- Where are the *dragons* in this list?
- I am the dragon in this list.
Sorry guys, I did't mean to be rude. ReadTheFreakingCard means very simple thing - read the card again if You didn't read it properly. So I see no reason to consider someone showing You Your mistake as flaming.
Bomb actually may seem a turn slower than keg at first glance, but it isn't, that is the thing I wanted to show You. Peace .
Well then.. it honors you to say that. It's not that we never say the f-word here. But we kinda omit it when speaking directly to another, especially in the imperative. "That fucking Bomb's as fast as Keg,because you charge it right away!=)", should have been a little nicer, okay?:) Peace mate.
So...will you guys play Rachet Bomb? Could you share your sideboard lists please?
Last edited by 0dysseus; 09-21-2010 at 06:39 PM.
- Where are the *dragons* in this list?
- I am the dragon in this list.
I think some general thoughts can be reached here to start with. Like Koth is good. So is ratchet bomb.
Yet, there are some things I disagree with. Personally I really dislike Arc Slogger. I honestly prefer continuing experimentation with Lord of Shatterskull Pass and Kazuul. I enjoy what they can do. They scare people well. They do not exile ten cards of my library to to do anything worthwhile.
Though, discussion I would love to see more of is sideboard. Cards like Pyrokinesis and Crypt are fantastic. But still, is relic better than crypt at this point with the cycling ability, or is the activation cost to much?
Again, I like ratchet bomb over powder keg, and it greatly helps fix the power difference in keg and explosives.
Conceptually I love pithing needle and REB, but I have lost count of how many times I have set myself up to counter my own spells, basically chalice or 3sphere give me a dead topdeck. So I wonder what other cards to consider at this point, given the current evolution of decks.
In my testing, shatterskull and kazuul have been a bit of a nuisance. they often are treated as big vanilla bodies. in most games, lord never gets the to the top level unless i pretty much already have the game locked up. kazuul is also on the defensive too much, so i end up waiting until my soft lock gets broken.
With arc- slogger resolved, the tribal matcchup becomes much easier. w/ chalice @1, the zoo matchup becomes easier too. this is not the case with the other two guys. I've always been pro slogger, so i'm probably bias, but I think I'd include lord with slogger rather than replace one with another. :P
As for side board, mine is not concrete right now. I'm constantly debating what to use, but here's a list of stuff i'm currently debating:
pithing needle -- a lot of uses. it's ur only fight against sneak attack and deed. slows survival and is overall versatile.
tormod's crypt -- although relic pwns new horizons and survival madness, chalice @ 1 is usually very important (esp against reanimator and dredge). You have a good matchup against new horizons and survival madness anyways. your main focus should be to resolve a moon and sweep any hierarchs.
pyrokinesis/volcanic fallout -- Some people are taking these out of the list, but imo, i can't readily beat goblins w/o 5-6 of these. merfolk and zoo are ok, but goblins are just a little too good at recovering. some like firespout over VcF, but i like VcF bc it handles merfolk and fearies w/ more assurance and often doubles as a jace killer if jace comes out bouncing.
REB -- many people like this, and i admit it's great against the meta right now. pithing needle and REB's are great against sneaky show and ugly duckling (doomsday emrakul). Also an easy jace killer.
RATCHET BOMB!!! -- easily better than the keg. I'm prob gonna get lots of these bc the markup will be crazy. it can kill enchantments and planswalkers for any color. I'm more scared about facing this than deciding whether to use it.
artifact hate -- I've seen rack and ruin, ingot chewer, and others, but i like shattering spree. just the fact that it's hard to counter, can still get copies around chalice, and can kill multiples, devastating some ppl.
the midline sb cards i don't like but admittedly use:
anarchy -- this is my only real fight against progenitus and enchantress outside of out tempoing them. this ingle handedly won me a tournament. i love it, but also feel like it's such an awkward situational solution.
stingscourger -- this is my only fight against a resolved show n tell => emrakul (other than siding emrakul himself!). I really don't like this one but it works. Got the idea from the tacosnape post. I'd like to find a better soln though.
boil -- Many blue matchups I already feel good against, but once in a while, this seems to help out a lot.
RAkroma -- I've been one of the biggest advocators of akroma, but the game is just so fast right now. Against progenitus, this would be nice, going head to head, but against emrakul, it's death. Akroma has saved me more than a few times against an iona beating tho.
i think i'm missing a few, but hope this helps. Currently, I'm using:
3 pithing needle
3 pyrokinesis
2 volcanic fallout
3 tormod's crypt
2 anarchy
2 shattering spree
Again, not the best, but hopefully i'll find a consistent list.
@ Boots:
I don't like 4 copies of Arc-Slogger too much either, but playing none seems to me like a horrible idea.
Kazuul is good but situational. What if you play against an opponent who has no creatures -or just a few- and has almost always 3 mana to pay? After my testing I saw that Kazuul's ability gives the opponent the choice to deactivate it or not. It works in the early game when he has no mana to spare, or if he plays a weenie deck, but again, an early game Slogger is creature & removal, 2 in 1. And against a weenie deck...well you know. In the lategame, would you prefer to create the perfect defense? I'd prefer to clear the path to victory -or just deal 6-8 direct dmg to the other player and finish him. I know that after exiling 40 cards you're exhausted, but so should be the opponent, and even more if you play it well.
I'm afraid I didn't catch your meaning here: "But still, is relic better than crypt at this point with the cycling ability, or is the activation cost to much?" Could you please explain? What cycling ability are you referring to? Do you mean Relic of Progenitus' activation cost?
If you want to play other creatures as well, you can try my test list: 19 Lands, 4 Moxes, 3 Trinis, 4 Chalices, 8 Moons, 4 Songs, 4 Simians, 4 Raiders, 3 Koths, and then 3 RPDs, 1 Akroma in the 4th Dragon's place, and instead of 3 Sloggers put only 1 plus 1 Lord and 1 Kazuul. Then just estimate what would happen if an PRD came instead of Akroma. Do the same with the trio: Kaz, Slog and Lord. When you draw one of them, would you rather have one of the other two, and which? Or compare Lord with the Dragons and Akroma with the 3RRs. You'll see that you'd prefer to have an RPD most of the time and a castable Slogger. Do you think a good player in a tournament will be scared if he has no reason to be really scared? :-)
@ mercs:
I understand Faerie Macabre doesn't ruin an opponent's Threshold when he has 9+ cards in the graveyard, but FM does some swift unexpected tricks. If no one plays it, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong?:) I'm trying a 3 Faerie and 1 Crypt split now. The idea is to get one of the Faeries early game (which I prefer) and the (less possible to draw)Crypt can bomb a larger graveyard later. That's just a tiny detail. Also, do you like REBs -and not Pyroblasts- for a specific reason?
I'm testing Red Akromas again, now with Koth -as you see above. It sure works better than before.
Why did you say that Volcanic Fallout "doubles as a jace killer if jace comes out bouncing"? Am I missing a rule here?
Anarchy is good versus Enchantress, but beware of Karmic Justice.
Stingscourger can be good against many a creature,not only Emrakul.. Countryside Crushers, Blazing Archons(if you've ruined his search engine), Tombstalkers, etc...
- Where are the *dragons* in this list?
- I am the dragon in this list.
I actually have no prob with the macabre. looks like creative tech actually that i might try myself. Again, I definitely missed some of the sb options.
As for REB's, I actually don't mind either. If you're debating about the misdirection/hellbent issue, just go with pyroblast. Misdirection is SO situational and mostly noninfluential. Most ppl see DS and think the only thing to misdirect is a slogger shot, which isn't worth 2 cards to them, so it usually won't see much against u. As for hellbent, that's a solid mechanic u know u want in ur deck, so it's always good to have that option.
I've always kept one rakroma main, but ditched one from the side. haven't tested koth yet, but would like too. :D
As for jace, u can redirect player damage. Usually against landstill or whatever the deck may be, I'll have a few creatures out (or maybe just one influential one like rpd) and they'll drop jace and bounce rpd, leaving him at 2. Since vcf hits players, i just throw the 2 damage at the jace in uncounterable fashion. doesn't happen all the time, but sometimes a guy let's shots get to jace also believing it won't die (until it does).
Funny u bring up karmic justic, i had the enchantress guy overcommit even w/ kJ, and anarchy led to his decking! haha but yea, anarchy can be a savior so i just can't let go...
as for stingscouger, ur right. I've actually faced eon bridge where the stingscourger caught a dreadnaught too.:P I just don't know what I'd take out for him. *sigh* i even tried running him main to see if he was ok.
What you guys think of this card?:
Does it have potential to this deck?
thanks!
Bahh...metalcraft. I disliked the card the moment I saw that word, without reading the rest of the text. If you try it with Precursor Golem maybe..but otherwise it won't work at all mate. Try it and see for yourself.
@ mercs:
About Karmic Justice..if you play Anarchy while KJ is down you will lose as many nonland permanents as you destroy, right? "I just don't know what I'd take out for him." -> Thinkin' the same thing. I don't know if I should be bothered more with matchups that depend most on who plays first.
Aren't you afraid without a full set of Needles and Crypts in your sb? Of course you have mass damage removal, which I don't have. I just hope Koth will work good enough without removal support in the goblin matchup (& weenie decks generally). I am a little worried that he'll get beaten up by one of the many silly gobbos which will bypass our fewer creatures. If we manage to get the emblem though...now that should be lots of fun. If only Wizards increased the sideboard size...
EDIT: I think Stingscourger also beats Exhume, if the opponent hasn't got any shroud creatures in his graveyard, eh? I don't remember well if the opponent chooses which of the two creatures will come in first! If they are reanimated simultaneously, Stingy finds a target, doesn't he? I'll try and make some room for that guy. Aside from dealing with some titans, I can see him playing half the role of Pyrokinesis-clasm/V.Fallout by bouncing AND blocking(-possibly killing) a second small creature. That's possibly a good tempo gain against weenies too.
Last edited by 0dysseus; 09-22-2010 at 06:48 AM.
- Where are the *dragons* in this list?
- I am the dragon in this list.
yea man, i know karmic justice. the time it didn't matter was because he was stabilizing on 5 cards in his deck and 7 enchantess effects still on board so anarchy put him in a position where he had no out, and playing another anchantment would deck him. In the end, if he's got a bunch of angels ready to kill u, u really have no choice but to anarchy. if your lucky, u'll get stuff back from o rings.
with my removaal, i'm not afraid of goblins. w/o my removal, i'm terrified (same goes for elves and empty the warrens). I've never had a problem running 3 crypts. I like my dredge matchup a lot. The only matchups i don't like are rock survival builds and aggro loam bc their grave can be annoying, but they don't rely solely on the grave,
As for pithing needle, I'm ok. I had success w/ o it too. I like it, but i've never had moments where i was just wowed by it. mainly bc ppl will always sb artifact hate on DS, so pithing needle is just another soft lock until u throw down a threat.
and yea, the creature's hit simultaneously, and the triggers are stacked, so stingscourger will find a target. as for him replacing a removal, i'd replace pyrokinesis b4 volcnic fallout, but in general i'd be hesitant to even do that :P
Is anyone else testing Masticore 3.0 ?
I think it could be a viable replacement for Arc-Slogger. Like the Slogger, it can hit players. It is almost impossible to kill once you have a Chalice of the Void set at 1. It helps that DS is running up to 24 creatures, some of which (Magus of the Moon, Simian Spirit Guide) have little impact in the late game and can happily be pitched. It does however die to Krosan Grip and is not so good in multiples.
What does The Source think?
I don't think that this will be a serious and viable replacement for Arc-Slogger (I personally don't want more than 3 Arc-Sloggers but it still wins me games)
There is 1 BIG reason why and that is Hell Bent (Or actually this card seriously screwing Hell Bent for you)
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