[DTB] Vial Goblins

[GoboLord]

@Gobbo: Yes, thats exactly what I meant. Thanks.

With that SB (with the +3 Needle), how would you side against Vengevival?
I've been doing quite a lot of testing trying to figure out what's the best approach, but I never tested Nature's Claim.
Against what other decks do you bring it in?

My SB looks like this now

3 Chalice otV
3 Leyline otV
3 Perish
3 Pithing Needle
3 Nature's Claim

Against Vengevival I'd bring in 3 Nature's Claim and 3 Needle. Leyline could be an option, but I guess Pithing needle is better if you have Nature's claim. All of them can deel with Survival of the Fittest (which we have to shut down), but Needle can be used to shut down other discard outlets like Mongrell and Aquamoebae while Claim deals with Survival.

I bring it in against against:

- decks with Survival
- decks with Jitte
- any combo-deck
- Staxx
- Enchantress

[ScatmanX]

3 Chalice otV
3 Leyline otV
3 Perish
3 Pithing Needle
3 Nature's Claim

I'm going to try -1 Perish, -1 CotV,-3Leyline, +3 Knesis (cannot leave home without them), +2 Extirpate.

Against Vengevival I'm playtesting removing 4 Lackey on the draw, to see what happens. Lackey here never connects on the draw, and by their turn 2, they'll have 1-2 blockers already. With Survival on they'll have blockers with flash for the cost of G. It just didn't seemed worth it during testing.
What do you guys think?

[Gun4Hire]

Just curious but whats peoples opinions of Krosan Grip vs Nature's Claim?

N. Claim is alot faster than Krosan but can be countered.

Has anyone tried both?

[GoboLord]

Just curious but whats peoples opinions of Krosan Grip vs Nature's Claim?

N. Claim is alot faster than Krosan but can be countered.

Has anyone tried both?

I tried both. I even wrote a report of a tournament on which I used Claim (see page 256).
Someone asked the same question, here is my answer:

@ FoulQ
Afaik there hasn't been much discussion in this thread.
I boarded Nature's Claim in against 4 decks: Landstill, Dreadstill, Bant Survival and MUC. All of those deck run counters. Therefore Krosan Grip would have been saver. After all I came to use it against Landstill and Bant Survival, both times it wasn't countered. There are two possibilities:

1. They didnt have counters on hand
2. They didnt expect their Enchantments to be destroyed with only 1 mana, so they didnt play it with counter back-up.

I think I was lucky that day, because it wasn't countered, but on the other hand, many decks against whoich I would use it (Mono Black, Staxx) can't counter it. So Claim is better in those MUs because it doesnt slow you down. Second you dont run into situation where you have the card on hand, one taiga in play and you taiga is being destroyed before you draw your 3rd land. It's easier to keep you away from the 3rd mana than form one.

I cant say which one is better, it depends on the meta. Looking at the decks I faced Grip would have been saver, but I think it was the surprise factor that got them here.

[HelloHero]

Hi everyone,
I'm a new member to The Source, great place by the way, and I'm looking for some feedback on my current Mono-Red Goblins deck. I've posted it up on other forums for comments/suggestions and I was hoping I could get some good advice here as well. Here it is:
Lands:
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
14 Mountain

Gobbos:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Stingscourger
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

4 Aether Vial

SB:
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
1 Vexing Shusher (Not 100% on)
1 Goblin Tinkerer

I've been getting mixed feedback on running 3 Chieftains. Personally, I like that they're in my deck but other people have suggested that Mogg War Marshal would be better overall. Chieftain or MWM what's the better choice? Why?
I'm considering 2 Warren Instigator but unsure on what to drop. I feel the deck is fairly solid on it's own, but I don't think the Instigators would hurt much. I'm thinking -1 SGC, -1 Sharp/Chieftain +2 Warren. Any thoughts?
Unclear on SB as of now. Looking to run something for a general meta.
Thanks for any comments/suggestions.

[bakofried]

Getting the same answer here. Cut 'em for MWM's, or Instigators, but if you add Instigators you may need more red sources.

[Psyqo]

I think 3 Stingscourgers is too many. I like having 1 as a maindeck silver-bullet target from a Matron, or 0 if I don't see any Emrakul in the meta.

Cutting 2 of those for 2 War Marshals would improve matchups like Zoo and Merfolk.

[bakofried]

Stingscourger is good in the Zoo and Folk MU.

[HelloHero]

Getting the same answer here. Cut 'em for MWM's, or Instigators, but if you add Instigators you may need more red sources.

bakofried. would mind if I asked to see what you're running for your Gobbos build? You seem to know what you're talking about when it comes to the little green men and I'm curious to see what you're running.
As for MWM, I'll have to compare and see really. I don't come across a lot of Zoo. Merfolk yes, but Zoo hardly and I feel that's why I'm not 100% sold on him. I'll have do some more testing.
To make the cut I could do:
-2 chief -1 sharp or -1 SGC, -1 Chieftain, -1 Sting or -2 chief, -1 SGC. Idk which be more optimal.

About Sting; I think Sting is a definite 2-3 of if running Mono Red it helps get lackey through in the early game. Any B/R list can easily get away with one Sting MD but that's only because of Wort and Warren Weirding.

Anymore feedback would be great.

[lotriderm]

I think 7,8 removal is necessary for goblins, regardless of the splash or mono. I personally will keep the Stingscourgers as a 3 of and might cut 1 SCG and 1 Chieftain for 2 of something that isn't double RR (MWM is a good choice or whatever you feel is necessary).

[bakofried]

Right now I'm digging this list:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37615
Right now though, I'm unaware of what splash would be good for the meta. Some say green, some say black, some say both. What's everyone else's opinion?
And the first config. is probably best - just don't cut SGC. I would never go below 3, I love 'em too much.

[kinda]

I started out 4-1 at the jupiter games tournament and ended up a dissapointing 4-3.

Lands:
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Mountain
4 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire

Gobbos:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Warren Instigator

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB:
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Disenchant
2 Bloodmoon

The bolts should have been ethersworn canonists but I didn't feel like buying them...bad call. The 3rd siege gang should be something else.

Round 1: New Horizons
Nothing special...ghostly prison was a pain in game two but it worked out.
2-0 (1-0)

Round 2: New Horizons splash red for firespout
Game 2 I got crushed by firespout but brought in burrenton forge-tender which won me game 3.
2-1 (2-0)

Round 3: The vengevine deck that won the tournament
He has an early survival both games...g2 was much closer but qasali pridemage took out my relic and piledriver only got him to 2.
0-2 (2-1)

Round 4: Elves with food chain
Game 1 he has two poor messengers...game 2 I played two ringleaders neither of which found any goblins (seriously)...g3 I had a good start and disenchant.
2-1 (3-1)

Round 5: Affinity
I don't remember too much...gempalm was very good...as was disenchant.
2-1 (4-1)

Alright so now I just need to win the next round to draw into t8!!!

Round 6: TES
To add insult too injury g1 I mull to 5 and don't have a t1 or 2 play...he adnauseams to 2 life on turn 2, tanks for a bit then flips over a ponder to bring him to 1. He then has to pass the turn...and wins t3. G2 he goes off t1 with protection.
0-2 (4-2)

Round 7: A dedicated food chain deck
He goes off turn 3 both games and counters my disenchant.
0-2 (4-3)

[HelloHero]

I started out 4-1 at the jupiter games tournament and ended up a dissapointing 4-3.

Lands:
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Mountain
4 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire

Gobbos:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Warren Instigator

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB:
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Disenchant
2 Bloodmoon

The bolts should have been ethersworn canonists but I didn't feel like buying them...bad call. The 3rd siege gang should be something else.

Round 1: New Horizons
Nothing special...ghostly prison was a pain in game two but it worked out.
2-0 (1-0)

Round 2: New Horizons splash red for firespout
Game 2 I got crushed by firespout but brought in burrenton forge-tender which won me game 3.
2-1 (2-0)

Round 3: The vengevine deck that won the tournament
He has an early survival both games...g2 was much closer but qasali pridemage took out my relic and piledriver only got him to 2.
0-2 (2-1)

Round 4: Elves with food chain
Game 1 he has two poor messengers...game 2 I played two ringleaders neither of which found any goblins (seriously)...g3 I had a good start and disenchant.
2-1 (3-1)

Round 5: Affinity
I don't remember too much...gempalm was very good...as was disenchant.
2-1 (4-1)

Alright so now I just need to win the next round to draw into t8!!!

Round 6: TES
To add insult too injury g1 I mull to 5 and don't have a t1 or 2 play...he adnauseams to 2 life on turn 2, tanks for a bit then flips over a ponder to bring him to 1. He then has to pass the turn...and wins t3. G2 he goes off t1 with protection.
0-2 (4-2)

Round 7: A dedicated food chain deck
He goes off turn 3 both games and counters my disenchant.
0-2 (4-3)

Have you considered Flame Kin Zealot in your build? Personally, I always liked R/W Goblins.
The only thing I would've done was -2 Warren -2 Mire +1 Sting +1 Gempalm +2 Port

[Avatara]

Have you considered Flame Kin Zealot in your build? Personally, I always liked R/W Goblins.
The only thing I would've done was -2 Warren -2 Mire +1 Sting +1 Gempalm +2 Port

When Flame-Kin Zealot enters the battlefield, creatures you control get +1/+1 and gain haste until end of turn.

You can't be serious...

[GoboLord]

Hey guys,

I've been on a tournament yesterday, here's my report:

My List:

//Lands [22]
8 Waste / Port
4 Mountain
2 Taiga, 2 Badlands
6 Fetchlands

//Core [26]
Vial, Lackey, Piledriver, Matron, Warchief, Ringleader, 2 SGC

//Flex-Slots [12]
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Gempalm
2 Stingscourger
3 MWM
1 Tin-Street Hooligan

//Sideboard [15]
3 Leyline otV
3 Chalice otV
3 Pithing Needle
3 Perish
3 Nature's Claim

Here we go:

Round 1
Toby with DDFT

Game 1: I beat him down to 7, he goes off on turn 4.
IN: 3 Needle, 3 Chalice, 3 Nature's Claim
OUT: 3 Gempalm, 2 Stingscourger, 1 Bolt, 3 MWM

Game 2: My opening hand contains: Fetchland, Wasteland, Lackey, Matron, Natrure's Claim, Needle, Chalice. Turn 1: Taiga, Lackey, Chalice @ 0. He plays Underground Sea and Duress @ Needle. I draw Needle next turn, play Wasteland @ U-Sea and Needle @ Polluted Delta. Lackey into Matron @ Tin-Street Hooligan. He plays Swamp, Sensei's Divining Top. On My turn I draw a Mountain, play TSH @ Top (to not let him search for lands in upkeep. Basicly those 3 beat him down, he doesnt find any more lands.

Game 3: I mull down to 5 and keeep a fast hand (Mountain, Lackey, 2 Piledriver and Pithing Needle). He's on the play an Duress finds Needle again. My on turn 3 I have Lackey and 2 Piledriver, Lackey brings in SGC, he's down to 5 Life already - thus leaving him exactly 1 turn to go off, while he can't cast DD because of my SGC's ability. He decides to play Lim-Dul's Vault at EOT but the top 10 cards show him that he could play Tendrils for 18 dmg "only".

1-0-0

Round 2
Tim with UWr Countertop (eventually top 8)

Game 1: I win fast without seeing more than Brainstorm, Island, Plains, Mountain and Spell Snare.

IN: 3 Pithing Needle
OUT: 2 Stingscourger, 1 TSH

Game 2: He delays me with 3 Swords to Plowshares, turns the match over with Vedalken Shakles and wins with Elspeth. At this time he controls CB + Top, so my Needle won't sting neither Elspeth nor Shakles.

IN: 1 TSH, 3 Nature's Claim
OUT: 3 Lightning Bolt, 1 MWM

Me: "I guess this MU could be in your favor..."
Tim: "Why? Because of Humility?"
Me (didn't know that he has it): "Yeah, and I don't like Shakles and Firespout too much"
Tim: "Well, then I suppose you dont' run G spalsh for Grips...lucky me!"

Game 3: I start with Mountain, Lackey, Go. He has Lightning Bolt. I play two Lackeys, he has StoP for one. The other one brings in Matron (@ TSH) next turn. He plays Shakles on turn 3. I have TSH, which he counters. Next turn Nature's Claim gets my Lackey back at EOT who features a SGC on the follwing turn. My Vial was on 4 meanwhile and a chain of 3 Ringleaders take him and his 2nd Elspeth down in the curse of the game.

Tim: "Fuck, I hate G splash in Goblins"
I don't ;-)

2-0-0

Round 3
Kai with Rb Goblins

Game 1: We know each other, and both of us know that we are having a mirror match. He goes first with Wasteland, Vial, Go. I have Mountain, Lackey, Go with Bolt backup. He sets his Vial on 1, fetches on Badlands, go. I attack, having my Mountain in the one hand and Lightning Bolt waiting in the other...he does nothing, so SGC comes into play. I waste his Badlands. HisVial does nothing until it's on 3, at that point it doesnt stop my lackey-featured army anymore.

IN: nothing
OUT: nothing

Game 2: He's on the play again so I need to handle his first turn Lackey. Therefore I mull down to 5 finding my own. He starts with Mountain....go. His Lightning Bolt kills my Lackey EOT. He play Piledriver. I play Piledriver. He misses a landdrop and passes the turn. I cycle Gempalm Incinerator to kill his Pile... then we need a judge for a translation of my "Gemmepaume Incinerateur" because Kai doesn't believe me that it counts Goblins in play.
Well after all I end this match with losing only 1 life in both games (because of my fetchland).

3-0-0

Pause: I'm joking that I already had my obligatory combo MU for today, so I won't face them anymore. My theory is that I was a bit lucky in round 1 and that this lucky will help me to top-8 that day. Let's see...

Round 4
Micheal with DDFT (eventually top 8)

Game 1: Mountain, Lackey, Go. Piledriver on turn 2 beats him down to 14 on turn 3 (along with Lackey who brings in SGC). He has one turn left to kill me and looks quite unpleased with his draw. Ponder --> Shuffle, Draw. Play fetchland. Brainstorm --> fetch. Ponder --> Shuffle, Draw. Lotus Petal, Dark Rit, Cabal Rit. LED, LED, Infernal Tutor (crack LEDs for 6B) --> Ill Gotten Gains, Dark Rit, Cabal Rit, Infernal Tutor --> Tendrils @ 24.

look @ round 1 for SB

Game 2: I start with Port, Vial, Chalice @ 0. He plays Duress, finds nothing. I draw Chalice, play Chalice @ 1. Piledriver and Warchief come into play via Vial an take him down.

Game 3: I keep a risky but fast hand: Mountain, Lackey, 2 Piledrivers, Warchief, SGC, Pithing Needle. I thought that he might take mulligans to hit my CHalice of the Void on the play and that this might delay his combo 1 turn. It worked out: His Duress make my decision what to play on turn 1 much easier...he stares at my hand after discarding Needle. He does some math and finds out that "OMG, this hand kills on turn 3!!!", Me: "Who's playing the combo-deck here??". Actually I was ready to kill on turn 4, because his Orim's Chant Delayed my "combo" 1 turn. On his turn 4 he thinks for more than 20 minutes, knowing that this would be his last turn. The whole match was up to him from the beginning, cause I could do anything but being fast. After 25 minutes he concedes. "Who's playing the combo-deck here?" :-D

4-0-0

Round 5
Jens with Rbg Goblins (eventually top 8)

Game 1: He's a friend of Kai (round 3) so we know each other, and we know that we are playing the mirrormatch...again. Actually his list was ver strange and colorful, but he he's way better in Goblins than Kai was. Nevertheless I win game 1 (on the draw) because he could handle my Lackey.

Game 2: This game ends 40 minutes and 30 Goblins later after he his Kiki-Jiki-SGC-Earwig Squad-Ringleader-Wort-package took me down because I ran out of removal.

Game 3: We have 5 extra-turns left when we started game 3. So both of us take mulligan to probably find the turn-3-kill. I reveal my hand (mulligan 5) with 2 Mountain, 2 Lightning Bolt and Gempalm Incinerator, he reveals his (mulligan 6) with 2 Mountain, 1 Pyrokinesis and 3 Gemplams. Draw.

4-0-1

Round 6
Norbert with Aggro Loam (eventually top 8)

To keep this short and simple: He has 5 Countryside Crushers and 5 Devastating Dreams in the curse of 3 games. This one ended 1-2.

4-1-1

Round 7
Alex with Zoo

Game 1: I go first with Mountain, Vial. He fetches on Taiga, plays Nacatl. I play an land and my second Vial. He plays Plateau and Pridemage, in play Ligthtning Bolt @ Nacatl, bring in Lackey via Vial. On my turn I bring in MWM via Vial, have Gemaplm incinerator @ Pridemage attack with Lackey into Matron into Ringleader. His lonely Kirdapes on turn 3 can't do anything against my army featured my by Ringleader and MWM.

While boarding I ask him how for long he's been playing Zoo now. His answer was like: "Well...for the first time today, it's kinda fun.". I don't want to sound arrogant here but: I eat Zoo decks with unexperienced pilots alive :-D, that's what I tested this MU for.

IN: 3 Perish
OUT: 3 Piledriver

Game 2: I keep a hand with 2 Wastelands, Fetchland, Stingscourger, Matron, Ringleader - slow but efficient if he doesnt have nonbasics. He goes first again: Arid Mesa --> Taiga, Nacatl, go. I play Wasteland @ Taiga. He plays Horizon Canopy, attacks. Canopy tells me that he doesnt have any other land on his hand, thus I play Wasteland @ his 2nd green land. He plays Basic Forest on turn 5, stil beating me his 1/1 kitty. He never finds a second land, while I have Matron, Ringleader, Gempalm etc. He concedes and reveals his hand: Path to Exile, 2 Fireblast, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Grim Lavamancer. Lucky me that he didn't fetch on basic Mountain on turn 1 :-D.

5-1-1

1st: Norbert (Aggro Loam), round 6
2nd: GoboLord (Goblins Rbg)
3rd: Jens (Goblins Rbg), round 5

Jens lost to Norbert, on round 7, myopponent-score was slightly better than his.

Conclusion:

+ I bet combo twice, although I must admit I was a bit lucky
+ I didn't do any noticable playing-mistakes
+ I <3 Tin-Street Hooligan
+ I walked home with 4 DCI Phyrexian Dreadnought
+ I had not a single easy MU (although my opponent's skill helped me to win some of them)

- Needle wasn't efficient that day, didn't draw it too often
- should have conceded earlier on round 5
- I missed Pyrokinesis

[HelloHero]

@Avatara: I'm cereal.

Guess it's a bad idea... hahah

[FoulQ]

@ Pithing Needle: I know it looks good in theory but I have found the strategy of "answering" their "answers" as ineffective. I'm talking about the "answer" vs "question" theory that is presented in some magic articles. Example, dragon stompy is a deck basically of questions.

Instead of trying to sideboard in cards that are basically "answers-to-answers" (at least for goblins) like pithing needle, I prefer to just barrage them with questions. Sure, some cards like krosan grip are good enough to justify their SB space, but generally I will say this is a failing strategy.

I usually regret using SB space on pithing needle, at least for this deck.

[GoboLord]

@ Pithing Needle: I know it looks good in theory but I have found the strategy of "answering" their "answers" as ineffective. I'm talking about the "answer" vs "question" theory that is presented in some magic articles. Example, dragon stompy is a deck basically of questions.

Instead of trying to sideboard in cards that are basically "answers-to-answers" (at least for goblins) like pithing needle, I prefer to just barrage them with questions. Sure, some cards like krosan grip are good enough to justify their SB space, but generally I will say this is a failing strategy.

I usually regret using SB space on pithing needle, at least for this deck.

I guess you are right about "answering their answers". I like to use Pithing Needle as an additional mana-denial (naming etchlands), but this didn't work out. What do you think? Worth as manadenial or not?

[Neuad]

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [R] Badlands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [MPR] Wasteland
2 [U] Taiga
6 [ON] Mountain (3)
2 [JGC] Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [7E] Goblin Matron
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
2 [M10] Siege-Gang Commander
2 [PLC] Stingscourger
1 [M10] Goblin Chieftain
1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 [LRW] Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 [MOR] Lightning Crafter
1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
1 [AT] Goblin Tinkerer

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
2 [MOR] Warren Weirding

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 [AL] Pyrokinesis
SB: 3 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [UL] Harmonic Convergence


Here is my current list, I'm very happy with the mainboard, but going into Nashville my SB needs a little help. Those 3 Harmonic Convergences are meta'd for lots of enchantress but need to be something else.

I'm thinking Extripate. . my big fear matchup is UGMadness but I haven't done alot of testing against it.

[GoboLord]

When your list is Rbg, then Goblin Tinkerer < Tin-Street Hooligan. If you want to stay G (what I find a good idea in an unknown meta) you can replace convergence for Krosan Grip or Nature's Claim.