Panicked people: Survival Vengevines can't be stopped!!!!!
Sane people: Stop SotF using a counter or removal.
Panicked people: GW Survival Vengevine has so many spells that they can overwhelm your counters!!!!!!
Sane people: Play combo and destroy GW Survival.
Panicked people: UG Survival Vengevine has counters to stop your combo!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by TheRock
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =,
, and
.
Fauna Shaman needs an immediate answer? Please.
Turn two: Fauna Shaman
Turn three: Discard creature with Fauna Shaman to get Fauna Shaman, play Fauna Shaman
Turn four: Discard a creature to get Vengevine, discard Vengevine to get Vengevine.
Turn five: Discard two Vengevines to get Vengevine and Basking Rootwalla.
Turn six: Discard Vengevine to get Basking Rootwalla, cast your Rootwallas, swing for 16.
Yeah. If I don't answer Fauna Shaman immediately, I lose.Even if I had to answer it immediately, I could use a Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile instead of a Force of Will or Spell Snare.
The GWx version may be better, but it's not the one dominating tournaments right now, it's not the most popular version of the deck, and it's not the reason people are clamoring for Survival to be banned.
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Sure as hell sounds like fun.
I play Fauna Shaman myself in Survival decks, and I must say she is weak as far as her applications to Vengevival. Fauna Shaman is only worth playing in a tutorbox Survival approach i.e. Survival strategies that only need about 1 activation a turn to make a big difference to the game state. Theoretically, she doesn't fit well at all with Vengevivals, which want to chain Vengevines in the yard. She's much slower than Mongrel in terms of discarding (waiting a full turn and losing a potential 3 damage swing). She acts as 5-8 Survivals but I think her application is more of a slow-rolling with bigger creatures or setting up a slow Vengevine swing, which is contradicting what the deck does: Vengevines to the face.
Granted, that it's the only other Survival effect that currently exists, but I personally find her stronger in less aggro, more tutor-ish Survival builds, which is why she probably fits better in GW than UG Vengevival.
Did't we have this discussion regarding counterbalance a while ago?
It is definitely warping the format, the decision tree is simple: either play Survival or all-out hate it or play AnT. The meta will be 1/3 of each which I think is unhealthy.
Why the hell would you play ANT? TES is way better at this point. So is DDFT.
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =
I wouldn't be too confident on this.
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Are we talking about just UG survival or survival ? Cause some things are totally not true for survival in general.
Followers of Cook will play TES, while those of emidln's DDFT no doubt. I've tested both and didn't like either of those.
Anyway, 1/3 Storm sounds much better?
Note that Planar Void doesn't actually stop the Vengevine plan because it has a triggered ability. You can still get X-2 Vengevines into play, where X is available green mana. Survival chain Vengevines in response to the Planar Void triggers and end the chain with 2 Rootwallas (note that Memnite won't work because everything has to be played at instant speed here).
Let's ban Tendrills.
Ok then, if that's what scares you. I can still Brainfreeze you for 20+. But let's not delve into that. I am against Survival due to it's unfairness on behalf of Aggro (Merfolk, Goblins, Zoo) and control (Counterbalance and Landstill) players.
You seem to have huge problems with survival which the rest of us are not suffering from. Instead of trying to solve them by proposing a ban, why not get a grip and learn to play, or just choose a proper deck? By no means is survival as crazy as you seem to implicate.
It's really dissappointing when people are too lazy to better themselves in the game and just start ranting any new decks with false accusations. If you cannot beat vengevine survival with the tools you have, maybe this just isn't the game for you. For god's sake, it's a deck with creatures and a mana-hungry enchantment. How difficult can it be?
Sure VV-survival is fast and all, but so is the rest of the format. Why not ban Wild Nacatl, Dark Ritual, Goblin Lackey, Arcbound Ravager and the rest also? Also those cards upset people when they lose consecutive games against them by playing slower, worse decks.
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This. Let me throw Hibernation on the stack of cards that just obliterate it as well. Pick up your Survival and all your terrible creatures.
If that don't work out, don't come back to this thred complaining
After the games i've played against UG, Bant, and GW survival I've had a fair share of success against it with Dragon Stompy. Trini early slows down their hierarchs and survivals, chalice at 2 stops their survivals/moebas/mongerls, pithing needle from the board becomes a huge road block, and I hear blood moon is pretty good. Sure Moon might not hose as much in those decks as in say Thresh or something... but it still hurts.
If I were still playing stax I don't think i'd fear the deck very much with Supression Fields, Tabernacle, the aforementioned trini/chalice, Ghostly Prison, Oblivion Ring, and the opportunity to play Arbiter and Cannonist out of the board. And that's not even taking into account the Dutch Stax lists that run Humility.
I'd go so far as to say that if not for their own inherent consistancy issues and having some bad matches at other parts of the field, Chalice decks would be your foil to Vengevine Survival.
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I think I don't get your point. Vengevine is the green Satan, Storm mechanic is safe? Because it's unfair for Non-Blue Aggro and Non-CB Control as well.
People are crying for 4/3 creatures on turn 3-4. Belcher players are making 14 Goblin tokens in their first turn since 2006! Counterbalance is locking on turn 2 since... Well, ever as I remember!
If you don't like brokeness, I'm suggesting you to go playing Pokémon TCG.
Peacekeeper actually does mess these decks up quite a bit. They really don't have a good way to get rid of him. Silly, but true. TES mangles the GW one, though I admit it's rough to get through all the Counterbalance to get to those decks. Since GW and UG both do really well against the Counterbalance decks, you can assure yourself you will play against counterbalance before you get to the Survival/Vengevine shenanigans. Kind of sucks for the Storm players to have all the good match ups go through your worst ones.
now if you have one of those metas where no one plays CB, then you should be playing TES. DDFT is amazing also, but it's a matter of taste and skill really. I don't mind either, but I prefer TES due to it's redundancy in mulligans.
I'd say wait and see. I remember people crying to ban lackey. Remember that? The meta will adjust.
Good Evening,
Survival is good, but survival seems too good because several people here and at another website or two don't realize that it is perfectly okay if it is nearly impossible to defeat every deck that plays survival. Survival is a card that facilitates many different decktypes which are good. There are many other cards that fit this discription.
For each of these cards, there will be a good deck that will give your deck fits:
Force of will
Brainstorm
Tarmogoyf
Wasteland
Blue Fetchlands
Dual Lands
I guess the point is this. There are many great cards of our format. Survival of the Fittest is now on everyones radar. Watch the metagame adjust. Finally, like others have said, stop begging wizards for treats.
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