[Deck] Dredge

[ButtholeMcGhee]

re: 14 land: the Cephalid Coliseums are U: Draw three, discard three that sometimes help you play around Daze. They don't cast Imp, Tribe, Grudge, Ray, or Firestorm, and you want to be careful about assuming that you can lean on them for mana.

I dont' understand why people don't run more lands. Coliseums don't produce non-Blue mana, and this deck needs 15 or 16 lands to cast it's spells. Especially the off-color ones.

[Dm225]

This is what I'm currently running.

Creature

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Tireless Tribe

Enchantment

4 Bridge from Below

Sorcery

4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
2 Dread Return

Land

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Undiscovered Paradise

Sideboard

1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Ray of Revelation

I'm pretty set on the main but the side is questionable to me. This is what I was considering for the sideboard.

-1 Ancestor's Chosen
-1 Sadistic Hypnotist
-4 Ray of Revelation

+1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
+1 Terestadon
+4 Firestorm

I just can't think of a situation where I would board in Ray of Revelation instead of Chain of Vapor? Am I wrong or is this the general consensus?

[frogboy]

No 4 is better. The only reason you blew up their first piece of hate is because you ran 4 grudges and saw one early. I'd rather have extra grudges than not have one at all and stare at the Tormod's Crypt that will ruin my day.

If they don't have a Crypt aren't you just obliterating them?

edit: I board in Ray against Wheel of Sun and Moon. I'm also not real sure why there's an Iona in your board.

[ButtholeMcGhee]

If they don't have a Crypt aren't you just obliterating them?

edit: I board in Ray against Wheel of Sun and Moon. I'm also not real sure why there's an Iona in your board.

This deck usually does well if your opponent doesn't have Crypt. And Ray is not only good against Wheel of Sun and Moon, it also can remove Leyline of the Void. Which can be a problem.

[Dark Ritual]

Along with moat. Seriously, if you aren't running ray of revelation in your SB you are doing something wrong it deserves at least 2 slots. Also blows up troublesome enchantment's and can set back enchantress players a lot if you blow up their enchantress's presence or even better kill confinement then swing FTW.

[CabalTherapy]

I thought that we disuss the LED build here. These lists with enormous nummbers of lands xD don't run the diamond.
The other thread is still in the Established Decks forum.

[frogboy]

I thought that we disuss the LED build here. These lists with enormous nummbers of lands xD don't run the diamond.
The other thread is still in the Established Decks forum.

There are two options; we can either just have one Dredge thread in this forum, or we can put both of them in here. We decided not to clutter the forum with two Dredge threads, but if there starts to be a ton of overlap that can change

[CabalTherapy]

There are two options; we can either just have one Dredge thread in this forum, or we can put both of them in here. We decided not to clutter the forum with two Dredge threads, but if there starts to be a ton of overlap that can change

Ok, I understand. I just wanted to ask. So let's move on.

[maxflow2]

I thought that we disuss the LED build here. These lists with enormous nummbers of lands xD don't run the diamond.
The other thread is still in the Established Decks forum.

On that topic, how the heck do those LED lists with only 12 lands expect to be able to cast Putrid Imp consistently off of only 8 black sources? There's only about a 2/3 chance you see one of those in your opening hand.

[SHABOOGS]

Casting PImp is just one of many ways to get your dredgers to the yard. With LED, you can live with land, draw spell, dredger and LED (play land, play draw spell, in response crack LED and start dredging). Ever since I switched to the LED build I've been less reliant on a resolved PImp/Tribe as a discard outlet compared to when I was using the non-LED build.

[drocker23]

I have no idea if my post is way too far down to even be seen, but Iona is the BEST possible target for dread return in the legacy format. Iona = win.

[Izor]

I have no idea if my post is way too far down to even be seen, but Iona is the BEST possible target for dread return in the legacy format. Iona = win.

I agree that Iona is an incredibly good card. The question is whether Dredge needs her in order to win. The problem is that the main board is already very tight and we usually won't be able to dedicate too many main deck slots to DR Targets (I think not more than 2). In a metagame with several Lands and Stax I would probably include Iona main, for she is the only way we can win those matchups preboard. Her utility against combo, her independance on Bridges (which is her main selling point over FKZ) and the factz that she just wins against monocolored decks loke Mono Black or Burn are always useful. If the metagame is rather control-heavy and/or contains lots of multicolored decks (Bant, Zoo, etc) I wouldn't play her. Grave Troll will mostly do the same but he is not a dead card in the opening hand.

[Bozon]

What do you think of this (french) list in the U.S.

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
3 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Angel of Despair

4 Bridge from Below

4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
3 Dread Return

4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Dakmor Salvage

SB: 1 Blazing Archon
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Firestorm
SB: 3 Nature's Claim

Why you don't play Bloodghast?

Please give me your comments and your reviews.

[Izor]

What do you think of this (french) list in the U.S.

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
3 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Angel of Despair

4 Bridge from Below

4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
3 Dread Return

4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Dakmor Salvage

SB: 1 Blazing Archon
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Firestorm
SB: 3 Nature's Claim

Why you don't play Bloodghast?

Please give me your comments and your reviews.

We don't play Bloodghast because Ichorid is so much better. Also, running both requires too many slots and will harm the consistency of the deck. Additionally, Bloodghast completely ruins the whole mana base (4 Undiscovered Paradise and 2 Darkmoor Salvage are just so incredibly bad).

This list doesn't play Tireless Tribe and only 8 gold lands (4 of which are Paradises), so the list must be extremely inconsistent.

[SHABOOGS]

I tried a non LED bloodghast/ichorid build in the past and it seems to work just fine. I tried it in a 30ish player tourney and I landed 5th place (went 5-1 in the swiss). I'm currently testing a LED based bloodghast/ichorid build and thru various playtest and goldfish sessions (I've been testing it for 3 months now) and a few small tourneys as well and it seems consistent enough (pre and post board). I'm gonna use that build in a major legacy tourney this weekend and see what happens.

EDIT: I forgot to ask, how's the MU against survival decks these days? I've only come across 3 survival decks (2 retainers, 1 vengvine) in the past 4 months but I've lost to all three of them.

[Bozon]

We don't play Bloodghast because Ichorid is so much better. Also, running both requires too many slots and will harm the consistency of the deck. Additionally, Bloodghast completely ruins the whole mana base (4 Undiscovered Paradise and 2 Darkmoor Salvage are just so incredibly bad).

This list doesn't play Tireless Tribe and only 8 gold lands (4 of which are Paradises), so the list must be extremely inconsistent.

Ichorid can return with Bloodghast, but not with Tireless Tribe. Bloodghast's Landfall is just enormous with Undiscovered Paradise and Darkmoor Salvage, its recursive effect, deck depends therefore less Bridge from Below.

Tireless Tribe is nothing more than a white Putrid Imp bad! This is really poor. You are afraid of taking mulligans?!!

[lotriderm]

But with only Putrid Imp as your discard outlet, if you mull once or twice, the chances of having land and Imp are pretty low so you can't DDD either at that few cards.

[Mizeri]

Unmask, lions eye diamond, cabal therapy? Those still make you discard enough usually.

[sa17dk]

Unmask, lions eye diamond, cabal therapy? Those still make you discard enough usually.

That's terrible. You want to be aiming your Unmask and Cabal Therapy at them. Using them as a discard outlet should only be a last resort.

[Izor]

Ichorid can return with Bloodghast, but not with Tireless Tribe. Bloodghast's Landfall is just enormous with Undiscovered Paradise and Darkmoor Salvage, its recursive effect, deck depends therefore less Bridge from Below.

Ichorid being able to eat Bloodghast is not an argument, as you will never want to remove Ghast for Ichorid, will you? You want to remove creatures, that don't do anything in your graveyard, like Putrid Imps or redundant Dredgers.
True, Bloodghast's landfall is enormous with Paradise and Salvage. Maybe you didn't read my post? That's just the point; Paradise and especially Darkmoor Salvage are just crap. And Bloodghast needs them in order to work...
And you have to explain why Bloodghast depends less on Bridges than Ichorid. If you mean the fact that Ichorid dies each turn and makes tokens only if you have Bridges... well that doesn't show that Ichorid is dependant on Bridges, but that it has the bonus to auto activate Bridges each turn if you have some.

Tireless Tribe is nothing more than a white Putrid Imp bad! This is really poor.

Putrid Imps 5-8 is just awesome, not poor. It doubles your chances to have one permanent discard outlet in your opening hand,l which is great. It can't be removed for Ichorid, which is the only real disadvantage in comparison to PImp. But don't overlook Tribes' selling points: It blocks away Tarmogoyfs, KotRs and many other big creatures like a champ.

You are afraid of taking mulligans?!!

Yes, I am. You tell me that you aren't? Mulligaining into oblivion is the most common reason Dredge loses, especially game 1.