Serra Avenger is a great creature. Evasion and vigilance are very useful.
Should Kitchen Finks be maindecked? I'm considering swapping 3x MD arbiter with the 3x SB finks.
i think kitchen finks is a sideboard card specially useful against zoo
about arbiter, a have to say i prefer canonists which i play main as a 3-of, and they are just fine to me, they are slowing opponents down a lot and it is very strong against storm
about the green-splash i think that it is not needed at all, yeah you get huge beater, and utility both better than in mono w, but you open yourself to wasteland, stifle, and gravehate, meaning the biggest vanilla beater for 2 mana has just as much use as small fry
and actually i do not see any of the matchups getting better/worse with the greensplash, so i for my part will stick with mono w
hopefully everything was clear, my english is not the best anymore, since i am german and not that used to write or speak in english anymore
@AggroSteve: Thanks for that perspective, it's a very helpful way to look at the idea of the green-splash: "Does it improve any match-ups? Does it improve our worst match-ups?" And you english is great, clear enough for me to understand your point.
I haven't played much, like I mentioned but just thinking about it I don't see what Tarmogoyf brings to the fold in terms of making games better. I like him because he seems like he could close out a game quite quickly but I could also see multiple scenarios where he just get's blocked for multiple turns in a row while Serra Avenger would continue to connect and continue to turn on the triggered equipment.
Gaddock Teeg also seem attractive but I wonder if Ethersworn Cannonist is doing a simlar job most of the time without the stretch to a 2nd colour.
Qasali Pride-Mage still seems incredibly potent to me though. I think a splash for 4 is very prudent across multiple M/Us.
True. If you want to fight storm, Canonist is the creature, and so is Gaddock. Arbiter is only occasionally good against Doomsday decks. But Gaddock is useful against cards where Canonist doesn't do anything: Natural Order, Engineered Explosives, Wrath of God, Dread Return, Smokestack, big Jace, Elspeth, Armaggedon...Originally Posted by AggroSteve
I don't agree with the highlighted part.
1 - Goyf is a replacement for Grunt, and I hope we all agree that Goyf >>> Grunt. And anything that hurts the size of the goyfs has an impact on the longevity of the Grunts. Also, having Goyf + Qasali Pridemage is the nuts, as you can attack into opposing Goyfs.
2- Goyfs don't replace Serra Avenger, Serra is a very good card in the metagame because of Flying + Vigilance.
3- I think I don't have to elaboate on why Qasali Pridemage is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oblivion Ring in this deck...The cat is really the best tool of the splash.
GW definately improves most matchups, while not opening yourself to much. Why? Because you only need WWG to operate without Vial (with mono W you need 1WW), so If you fear Wasteland, simply fetch a basic forest. Note that if you have vial going, you don't even need G...And yes, fetches can be stifled, but with ******** practically nonexistent, I don't see this being a big problem.
@caspian: you can find my GW list some pages ago...
Sorry, I can not agree with your #1. Tarmogoyf is a generic beater, nothing more nothing less. Jotun Grunt on the other hand is a beater that shrinks Goyfs, removes threats, and lets you recycle cards.
Honestly, had I had Goyf in my deck instead of Grunt I would have gone 1-3 instead of 3-1.
I think G/W is another deck entirely. D&T is a deck that abuses vial and crippling the other player's strategy. If they are combo you waste their lands and play canonist. If they are agro or burn you play avatar and equip a sword onto it. Grunt shuts down GY based decks. Mangara/O ring come in when they cast show and tell ect ect. The deck does not have a great goldfish, but the interaction with the other player is what makes it scary. The cards it plays are in there for a reason. If you want large Goyfs and a fast clock play zoo, GW Vengevival, Maverick or a number of other decks that are built to take advantage of them.
I think that the green splash makes the deck stronger. Qasali pridemage makes a LOT of matchups easier. Jotun grunt has more utility, but goyf is more useful IMO since it stays around AND can be played early on as a blocker. Grunts usually sit in your hand until the gy fills up a bit, or die in a couple of turns if you play them early. Teeg kinda does the same thing that canonist does, but it also stops cards such as natural order, humility, engineered explosives, and ad nauseum. Canonist can be boarded in as part of the tutor package if teeg isn't enough. The sideboard for green splash is also stronger since it has access to krosan grip which helps against counterbalance especially.
What the green splash does miss is rishaden ports and the mana denial. Oring was the weakest part of the mono-white deck and I've honestly never missed it. Jotun grunt is sometimes missed, but overall I like having a big body that sticks around for more than a couple of turns. Yes, you can argue that you can just reset the age counters with flickerwisp, but I prefer to save my wisps for other things. Recycling equips is a kinda moot point since you need another mystic (or a wisp to flick one that's in play) to get the equip back. In the sideboard I guess monowhite can run Cataclysm, which can win games on its own.
However, overall I believe the green splash is stronger since it just has more answers.
Hi Folks!
I used to play this deck till the m10 rules wrecked the deck. Recent printings of Mystic and Arbiters made me feel like it was time to build this deck again.
I am wondering what are your siding strategies against the vengevines deck. Yeah, talking again about this MU but it is so...everywhere !
I play a classic mono-W version (arbiters included MD) The problem is that i always feel like i want to bring in a lot, but i really don't know what to take out ! I usually want to enter the E-tutor box with P Needle and gravehate. canonist seems also good to avoid the freaking plant to trigger....I'm also considering Sword of Body and Mind in SB... it makes at least 6 cards to enter
I don't have much experience against VV decks, thus, my siding strategies can be wrong (do not hesitate to criticize).i know VV decks are really present in my meta and that's why i'd like to have a dedicated side strategies against them...
I have brainstormed a lot but i can not decide what to take out since O-rings and Arbiters are needed to fight survival...
Any thoughts ?
canonists are also very good agianst every deck with a superior tempo than ours, besides it stops not the trigger of vengevines but does not let opponent play 2 rootwallas, but recently people strarted trying memnite or shield sphere because of canonist
i think, if ou like the arbiters main than you should be fine with them stopping survival, but beware of daze
swords to plowshares are allways good to get rid of at least one vengevine
but actually tormods crypt seems stellar to me, at least slowing them down a bit, until you got the answers you need (because they will search for trygon predator to crack crypt, and go of afterwards)
to be honest i do not have that much experience against that deck either, but im constantly reading in its thread^^
There's always the possibility of putting in Runed halo naming the vines.
And have it put into your yard next turn on account of Quasali Pridemage? (I consider the GW Survival builds of late superior to the GU Madness builds.) You need to handle Survival of the Fittest itself if you want a shot in that matchup. Having multiple Vengevines stroll your opponent's side isn't going to cut it if you're trying to win anything.
The best way to deal with VV is, of course, Extirpate, but since there's not much interest in a B splash right now, I'd probably go for random removal (to get rid of the first plant and up storm count) + Wing Shards.
Mangara stops Survival, Shaman,and Vengines
StP hits Shamans, Vengevines
ORing works like Mangara
Wing Shards hakes multiple Vines laughable
Tormod's Crypt can catch them off guard
Canonist shuts off Vengevine
Haven't had a problem with them so far, and I don't see any problems in the future
^ this wing shards really is an all star in this matchup.
Grunt can get rid of wonder if they are playing u/g it also shrinks goyfs, and KOTR if they are g/w
Indeed, Wing Shards is one of the reasons I LOVE this deck. It is fun watching someones face when they realise there is just not enough FoWs in their deck to counter all the storm counts.
I find that most people learn to play around it very quickly. It's still a great card though.
True, but you can force Storm Counts with your own StPs and vaious other methods.
And it only gets funnier if they (try to) counter your first removal that turn :D
To play StP + Wing Shards you need 1WWW. I'm sure that it doesn't come up that often...However, it does seem neat against Survivine, as they need to play 2 spells to get the vines back, so Wing Shards will hit for at least 3; but it doesn't exile the plants, so they will come back. So I'd so much rather have Canonist against them, as with it they can't "combo" (unless they play horrible cards like Memnite). And running both Canonist and Wing Shards is not a good idea.
Wing Shards seems like a really bad card to me, as it only works against a very few decks...But if your meta is full of Progenitus and Survivine I guess it's OK.
its also good against zoo for example, when they burn or path your only creature to get theirs to connect with your life, since your opponent will lose 2 creatures this way
i like wing shards its a fun and good card if you ask me, you just have to know how to play it
Just wondering...do you maindeck it? Or is it a sideboard tool?
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