[Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival

[Nessaja]

To those running Natural Order,

For decks which are splashing black for Perish, but don't run Exile effects (I'm looking at Merfolk, Goblins etc) would [card]Symbiotic Wurm[/card] be worth a sideboard slot? Or the fact that Merfolk can fly over the top of it and goblins chump it all day make it purely a defensive (and probably inadequate) play and as such useless?

If you're devoting a SB spot on that use Myojin of Life's Web, which can actually do some nice EOT things, as long as it doesn't get stifled.

[arebennian]

If you're devoting a SB spot on that use Myojin of Life's Web, which can actually do some nice EOT things, as long as it doesn't get stifled.

And as long as you play it from your hand.
I don't see the EOT trick if you NO it into play.

[Nessaja]

Ugh, fair enough. I was looking for the best possible Indestructible green creature, as that would be much better then Symbiotic Wurm. Thornling seems like the best one but thats pretty lackluster. NO for Dauntless Escort if you're really fearing a Perish. The Wurm isn't a good card.

[TheBirdMan]

if you really want to stop perish you can try running wastelands, You can hit their black source and slow them down since they are probably only running 4 seas or 4 badlands

[Leftconsin]

I've considered running Wastelands, but I have always found it difficult to find the room for them. For the most part I feel I need to increase the land count to 19+ to accommodate them. I think I tested it out a year ago and became unhappy with the increased likelihood of awkward mulligans. I do, however want to express this untested one:

In the board run 1 Trop and 4 of some cheap counter, either Daze or Spell Pierce. With fetches you have ~8 cards to be or find Trop, a rather amazing surprise factor, and a small buffer of protection. Even in situations where you have to lead with the Trop you have the 'Daze bluff factor' on your side. Your opponent will now play as if, of all things, Elves holding Daze. Works the same as psyching people out to name Iona on white when they know or think you sleeved up StP.

[Koby]

All things considered, this might actually be a good strategy for combating Combo - almost better than Thorn of Amethyst too.

I'm updating my board to test it out:

4 Spell Pierce
0-1 Tropical Island (might be maindeck)
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Gaddock teeg
1 Nullmage Shepherd

[Tivon]

Birdman and I ran the same combo hate package of 4x Chalice of the Void and 4x Mindbreak trap and it worked really well. I also ran -1 K grip from birdmans board and ran a magus in the side and loved it. It really does slow combo down enough though to get it for lethal

[lebarion]

Birdman and I ran the same combo hate package of 4x Chalice of the Void and 4x Mindbreak trap and it worked really well. I also ran -1 K grip from birdmans board and ran a magus in the side and loved it. It really does slow combo down enough though to get it for lethal

Running a Tropical Island for Spell Pierce might be a good idea. However, in the last 6 or 7 tournaments I've taken this deck, I've faced combo only once, so I'm still fine giving up this match.
Is there any other match (besides combo) where you think Spell Pierce would be good?

As this small splash is being considered, another idea passed thorugh my head: what about Loyal Retainers and Iona, Shield of Emeria in the sideboard?

[Koby]

It's also good vs Counterbalance, Stax, an occasional Burn deck, and most importantly, Firespout/Perish.

The fact that with fetches, getting Tropical Island is easy, and playing Spell Pierce doesn't require holding back a large amount of mana.

[Leftconsin]

I have faced combo about as infrequently as well. Primarily I was thinking Pierce/Daze as a counter for Firespout and Perish. Those two cards are what I lose games to the most. Mindbreak Trap is better against combo, but useless against everything else (no exaggeration).

@Loyal Retainer- At least for my list I'm willing to believe it isn't better than Mirror Entity. If you have the mana to get Retainer and Iona, then you have the mana to get Entity and Symbiote. One is a 3 turn clock, one wins this turn. The reason it is better in other Survival builds is that they don't have the third piece, the creature that taps for 4+ mana. So, good if you use your other slots for Force of Will or Vengevine, suboptimal if you run 8 dudes that tap for 4+.

[lebarion]

Since my last (bad) results against Merfolk and Goblins, I've dropped the Fauna Shamans in favor of Wren's Run Vanquisher. I've found the Shaman to be too slow in these matches, and her body isn't impressive at all. Dropping Fauna Shamans lead my sideboard to big changes, too, as I couldn't rely on some 1-ofs I had anymore.
I'm also dropping "cute" things such as Pendelhaven, Gaea's Cradle, Deranged Hermit and Wren's Run Packmaster in favor of the straight aggro plan. I've stick with Emrakul, however, as dropping a 15/15 flier and gaining an extra turn is too "cute" to ignore ;). The Masked Admirers is still there to make it easier to cast Emrakul, but I'm considering Ezuri or Joraga in its place.

This is the list I'm currently testing:

Gr Survival Elves
-- 18 Lands
6 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga

-- 7 Survival Package
4 Survival of the Fittest
1 Anger
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

-- 35 Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Priest of Titania
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Champion
4 Sylvan Messenger
1 Masked Admirers

-- 15 Sideboard
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Krosan Grip
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Null Rod
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Magus of the Moon

Comments and criticism are welcome!

[psly4mne]

lebarion: I see you're not running maindeck Viridian Zealot or Wirewood Symbiote. I wouldn't feel comfortable without some maindeck artifact/enchantment kill. How has that been working? I like running 2 Symbiotes, and I'm considering adding more. They protect all your elves from removal, make potentially lots of extra mana, and once in a while can help you combo into Emrakul.

I agree with you about Fauna Shamans being slow, and I think it's reasonable to drop them if you see a lot of aggro. You're running the full 4 Elvish Champions - I guess that's a result of focusing more on having big elves as plan A. Seems interesting.

I've been thinking about the right mix of 1-drops to run. I'm currently at 8 Llanowar Elves, 2 Quirion Ranger, 2 Wirewood Symbiote. I'm almost always happy to see 2 Llanowars in my opening hand, so I think 8 is about the right number (Arbor Elf, which I only learned of recently, means you could effectively have 12). I usually don't want to see more than 1 Quirion. I don't mind seeing multiple Symbiotes, and having 2 has been a lifesaver several times. But they're not elves, so I'd be wary of playing more.

My current list, for reference:
-- Lands
4 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath

-- Mana Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archdruid

-- Other Elves
4 Imperious Perfect
1 Elvish Champion
4 Sylvan Messenger
1 Wren's Run Packmaster

-- Survival
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Survival of the Fittest

-- Survival Targets
1 Masked Admirers
1 Viridian Zealot
2 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Anger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

I'm considering dropping the Packmaster, as I've rarely had occasion to search for it over Archdruid or Emrakul. The Viridian Zealot is often weak, but I wouldn't want to go without at least that much maindeck protection.

[lebarion]

I wouldn't run more than one Wirewood Symbiote. I find it wonderful when I have Survival, but awful in the starting seven. Also, many times returning an elf to your hand is almost as bad as having it killed, as the opponent is slowing you down a lot.
Viridian Zealot used to give me confidence, too, but I lost many times to a Jitte with Zealot in hand, just because I was missing a fourth forest. I also lost to enchantress a few times regardless of having him, and won against stax even without using its ability. After this experience, I concluded it is sideboard material at best.
Both are good stuff, however. I only have no place for them in my list.

[(nameless one)]

So....

Would this deck still work with Fauna Shaman/Quirion Ranger pair? Both are elves.

I've always wanted to build a competitive Elf deck since I have them but I am on limited budget (meaning that no Survival or Natural Order for me yet).

Is this deck officially dead or can the mentioned pair above revive this deck?

[DragoFireheart]

I bet the Fauna Shaman and Qurion Ranger can work. They are also elves so there must be some way to abuse them.

[lebarion]

I bet the Fauna Shaman and Qurion Ranger can work. They are also elves so there must be some way to abuse them.

I don't think this deck is unplayable without Survival. The problem is that there were lots of hard matches with Survival, and now everything gets just harder.
All in all, I think our dream of consolidating Survival Elves as as a tier 1.5 deck is over.

That said, I still like to try new things, so I've built this list which I haven't tested extensively yet, but I like on paper:

Gb "Survival" Elves
Deck List:
-- 18 Lands
6 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

-- 38 Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Elves of Deep Shadow
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Priest of Titania
3 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Champion
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Sylvan Messenger

-- 4 Combo Package
1 Krovikan Horror
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Triskelion


-- 15 Sideboard
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Krosan Grip
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Nullmage Shepherd
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Masticore
4 Thorn of Ametyst

With 3 Shaman activations you win the game, backed up by a beatdown plan. Yes, I know It takes a lot of turns, but still I think it is worth testing.
Maybe Squee is better than Krovikan Horror, but the idea of casting Horror to kill some small dudes like Grim Lavamancer makes him worth trying. Even the "combo" guys are easily castable if needed, and both artifacts can kill themselves if you draw them but have no Fauna Shaman in play. Also, Triskelion can be used as removal, too.
What do you guys think?

[Alexeezay]

good idea lebarion, I'll test it with NoPro Package

[Justin]

Here's my list. Wirewood Symbiote will help a lot, too. You can get 2-3 uses out of your Fauna Shaman per turn if you need to. I like the idea of having a toolbox including some big beaters. Obviously, if you can ramp up to 15 mana it is gg, but this elf deck is not as fragile as combo elves and can win by just beating down with lords and such.

// Lands
7 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills


// Creatures
4 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Imperious Perfect
1 Anger
1 Elvish Champion
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Elvish Archdruid
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Regal Force
4 Wirewood Symbiote

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Vexing Shusher
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap

[Koby]

Ulamog is overkill. The difference between 11 for him and 15 for Emrakul is marginal and the effect he provides is hardly powerful enough. Terastadon and Woodfall Primus are both better for destroy efffects.

Perhaps change him for Masked Admirers? It gives you a sort of Squee effect while still synergizing with Recruiter and Lords.

Also, the Elf Combo thread came up with Living Wish as an extra tool. It also gives you access to Cradle without gumming up the opening hands. It also gives you access to utility creatures that are otherwise weak in the MD like Zealot or Nullmage Sheperd. Any considerations?

[Justin]

I like Ulamog as a one-of. It destroys target permanent when you cast it. That means that it can hit Humility. It can also destroy other cards that stop the deck cold, such as Moat, Solitary Confinement, or Ensnaring Bridge. Sometimes you can generate 11 mana, but not quite 15, in which case Ulamog is the one to get. If you test with Ulamog enough, you will find that there are times when you need to tutor for him.