[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[The Atog Lord]

but it is good against merfolk and goblins.

Are you saying this because you actually tested it against Merfolk and saw that it was good? Or did you just read the card, decide that you think it would be good, and then tell us that it was be good by fiat?

Plague is bad against Merfolk. Merfolk runs about 12 cards that cost the same as Plague, counteract Plague, and can arrive free of charge via Vial.

[Tangle.Wire]

I think for this deck Earthquake and Firespout are the sweepers for the meerfolk matchup or? Even infest and pyroclasm seemed to be more than poor when i tested them.

[deadlock]

You are right, for Ur(g) builds Spout is the best..
Instead of asking this you just could have read a couple of pages back, Rich is even mentioning it in his article. Same applies to the question about a good Ur build, just read the thread.
To make my post worthwhile i comment on your list directly. Look into your blue source count, its extremly low with just 13 sources, cut a Wasteland, Mishras or add another land. Predict looks underpowered, but i havnt tested it. Clique is a good card, but i dont know if it is what the decks needs. Just thinking about it, its stronger against combo and control, both matchups were help is not as needed as against Zoo or Merfolk.

Concerning EE, i am really torn about this, but my gut feeling tells me that having only 1 answer to a resolved CB is too few, especially because it is counterable (compared to Grip). But EE is more than that, it can clear Zoo's 1 mana creatures easily and helps against Chalice - its just so versatile that i am currently thinking that it is stronger than the 3rd Spell Pierce.

[Tangle.Wire]

@deadlock thanks for the advice, for myself i said clique is just as long i don't own jace as i like him in this deck but i don't wanna compare clique to it it was just the 2nd best choice for the 2 slots i think. What would you suggest instead of explosives for the maindeck to answer permanents? i personally like echoing truth or rushing river but explosives seems to be much better.

[BKclassic]

UWb Dreadstill take 2: Dreaded Jace

3 Waste
3 Factory
3 Tundra
1 Sea
4 Strand
2 Delta
4 Island
1 Plains

4 Naught
3 Mage

4 FoW
2 Daze
3 Snare
2 TB
4 Stifle

3 Jace
3 CB
3 Top
4 BS

1 EE
3 STP

SB
3 Peacekeeper
2 Perish
4 Meddling Mage
3 Pierce
1 Relic
1 Crypt
1 Needle

Okay, so at the cost of standstill and dark confidant from Rich's list you get:
-A great mana base
-Plains and STP aren't relegated to the sideboard/Meddling Mage is awesome in the board.
-I always wanted to see Jace more when I only ran 2. Also, let's be serious, Jace is way better when you have some STPs to protect him with.
-Deep down we all know running Standstill with no removal is a terrible idea. No more drawing Standstill when your opponent has threats, especially Aether Vial.

Some subtleties:
-Meddling Mage fits extra nicely in this deck for a few reasons. It improves our lagging game against combo since we cut standstill for removal. It is a great card to board Naughts out for against heavy control and combo. It is another exciting way to protect Peaceleeper.
-The lower then average amount of 2 drops for counterbalance is compensated for by the 3rd Spell Snare. Also, Daze and Trickbind are boarded out frequently, having Meddling Mage in the SB also prevents the 2 drop count from getting to low.
-Cutting a Factory for a Plains makes sense with Standstill cut, since you are less dependant on them.

I am not saying it is the best, but I think it is a reasonable option if you really like Jace and MD removal. Its at least better then the last one.

[Tangle.Wire]

/edit read on..

[Tangle.Wire]

I played a my first little tournament since 5 month and about 1 year since i have played dreadstill, the list i took was:

3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage
4 Tarmogoyf

3 S.d.top
3 counterbalance
4 stifle
4 spell snare
3 spell pierce
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 predict
2 rushing river
1 engineered explosives

3 volcanic island
3 tropical island
4 wasteland
6 fetchlands
4 island

sideboard:

2 krosan grip
3 pyroblast
2 tormods crypt
1 engineered explosives
2 sower of temptation
2 lightning bolt
3 firespout

The deck played amasing, but we only played 4 games so i can't say that much about a meta or anything at all but i tested the deck beside the tournament too so i had about 10+ games to check the gameplay. I faced:

Dragon Stomp 1:2
BGW control 2:1
UWG control/Bant? 2:1
Goblins 2:0

The Dragon Stompy matchup was terrible as usual i lost to moon effects while countering the first one all the time followed by a second one. The BGW game was great while i had 2 firespouts on 3:1 the deck just lost to the card advantage of predicts/top. Also Sower was great for the first time i played it on a tournament in every game i saw it.The Goblin game was weird as his list included multiple korsan grip/persih but i was lucky going on with stifle/wasteland both games.

I think for the decklist i am very happy i am going to change:

- 2 Rushing River
- 3 Spell pierce

+ 2 Control Magic (don't have jace at the moment)
+ 3 Daze

And what really keeps me sleeples at night even after testing is 3 Trinket 2 Dreadnought or otherwise? i always feel like 2 noughts are more than enough as i throw stifles into fetchlands/random stuff and don't run trickbind anymore but with 2 noughts i have this psychic barrier in my had that says "don't drop dreadnought you only have 2"

Sideboard:

2 Rushing River
1 Engineered explosives
3 pyroblast
3 lightning bolt
2 sower of temptation
3 firespout
1 tormods crypt

I still have the 4 spell snares but today i didn't need any of those, lightning bolt and predicts where great, i am not sure if i keep grips as i used rushing river a lot against planeswalker or multiple creatures. Stifle/Wasteland also was the way to go on 80% of the games today reminding me a lot of people said this plan would be terrible at these days :)

For the Carddraw i really would like to have jace but i am not going to invest more than 50$ for magic in the future so i will play without (maybe i run the old ones just to kill them)
Predict was a lot better than Standstill for the UGR build, it enables #4 wasteland and is a lot more flexible as i thought before i played it by myself. I had a lot of situations where i feld like i resolved standstill with instand speed.

[ryl417]

Hi, new to The Source, love this deck. I know it's a turn 2 clock but do you think Tezzeret could be a worthy inclusion in this deck?

[jazzykat]

Hi, new to The Source, love this deck. I know it's a turn 2 clock but do you think Tezzeret could be a worthy inclusion in this deck?

Hello and welcome! I can't see a reason to use him. Care to elaborate on why you proposed it?

[sa17dk]

And what really keeps me sleeples at night even after testing is 3 Trinket 2 Dreadnought or otherwise? i always feel like 2 noughts are more than enough as i throw stifles into fetchlands/random stuff and don't run trickbind anymore but with 2 noughts i have this psychic barrier in my had that says "don't drop dreadnought you only have 2"

I personally like going 3 Dreadnought and 3 Trinket Mage. The Trinket Mage fetches your Dreadnoughts, Crypts, Relics, Tops, EE's, etc which is awesome. I always felt that 4 Dreadnoughts forced to run too many Stifle effects. I'd rather drop to 3 Dreadnoughts and run the Trinket Mages which are far more useful than the two Trickbind/Vision Charms you would have to run.

3 is good because you dont get that "oh shit I only have 2 Noughts I cant waste one" feeling.

[Jackehehe]

I'm currently looking for some info regarding standstill vs predict in aggro-heavy meta (tribal aggro, mind you, merfolk, goblin, zoo).

I was very relieved when a substitute for standstill was found - enter predict, since I never liked Mishra's in this deck. However, with the increase of tribal aggro in my meta I'm considering going back to standstill and mishras because I figured it would be a good way to handle aggro, especially goblins. Admittably, I'm not the most experienced standstill player and thus I ask for guidance in this matter; is running the standstill/mishra package a good way to handle these deck types?

I'm running the peacekeeper sideboard but its simply not enough. I always find myself at a crossroad: stabilize with CBtop to support peacekeeper/jace/nought (which often takes too long) or try to rush peacekeeper/jace/nought without support of CBtop, often resulting in removal, counter or painful burn. Its either enhancing my SB further towards aggro, that would mean 1 more STP, 1-2 path at the cost of losing either GY hate or spell pierces (I am not sure how much I need any of it), or simply go back to standstills and mishra's.

feedback appreciated!

[ryl417]

Hello and welcome! I can't see a reason to use him. Care to elaborate on why you proposed it?

Thanks for the welcome! I had initially thought he may be useful for games that run slightly a little longer than expected as he can help with untapping 2 noughts after swinging and searching out Explosives, Needle, etc but come to think about it, 4 Trinket Mages should be more than enough :)

[ryl417]

I personally like going 3 Dreadnought and 3 Trinket Mage. The Trinket Mage fetches your Dreadnoughts, Crypts, Relics, Tops, EE's, etc which is awesome. I always felt that 4 Dreadnoughts forced to run too many Stifle effects. I'd rather drop to 3 Dreadnoughts and run the Trinket Mages which are far more useful than the two Trickbind/Vision Charms you would have to run.

3 is good because you dont get that "oh shit I only have 2 Noughts I cant waste one" feeling.

Agreed, Stifles can come in pretty useful when not saving it's use for noughts, but as noughts are the kill condition, maxing them out would be wiser?

[Beware]

Honestly, I've liked 2 'Noughts with 3 Trinket Mage. That "I only have two 'Noughts" feeling goes a long way to keeping me from overextending and reduce the likelihood of needing a 'Nought without a Stifle or vice versa. A lot of the times it will be better to grab a Top or an EE anyways. With as much draw power this deck has with Mage you'd be surprised how often one can get it at the proper time.

My issue right now is what to pull to fit Jace. Jace is really good in this deck, but I don't know if cutting countermagic is a good call. For what it's worth, this is what I'm currently running:

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
Creatures [5]

4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
3 Daze
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Spell Snare
4 Standstill
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
Spells [33]

4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
Lands [22]

SIDEBOARD
3 Peacekeeper
1 Pithing Needle
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spell Pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Wrath of God

62 cards because I just can't make a decision one way or another as to what cards need to go. The deck doesn't usually have them in (it was exactly the same minus one land, plus one Crucible of Worlds), but I feel they have a place here. I'm also debating whether or not a splash of red would be desirable for REB or Firespout out of 'Board.

I'm thinking I should cut a Brainstorm and a Basic Island, but I feel that could be a mistake with an added 4 CMC card. Jace's free 'Storms can make up for that, but cutting a land seems bad.

[keys]

Played at the Knight Ware 42 man tourney yesterday and went 3-2-1 against UBG Jacestill, Reanimator, ANT, Dragon Stompy, Affinity, and Enchantress.

I used Rich Shay's Uwb list with some tweaks:

3 Phyrexian Dreadnought (Rich's list originally had 4, but I went with the 3rd Jace)
3 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare (went with this over the 2/2 SS/Daze split)
1 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind

3 Jace, the Mind Sculpter (went up to 3)

3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill
1 Engineered Explosives

3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins (instead of the 4th Factory)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
3 Island

Sideboard:
3 Peacekeeper
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Perish
3 Spell Pierce
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Plains

The list has a LOT of 3s which looks terrible on paper but it seemed to be consistent enough with the considerable amount of card draw in Confidant/Standstill/Jace, and it's usually best not to see doubles. The Spell Snares were not as good as I expected, but I never faced Survival (which in testing was a heavily favorable matchup post-board). I felt like there weren't quite enough answers in the maindeck. A Rushing River or something similar might be necessary to deal with any problematic permanents that escape counters. I was fine without creature removal game 1 since Nought is always a faster clock. That said, all of my observations can probably be attributed to the fact that I hardly played any aggro all day. The Academy would have been gold against Enchantress if not for resolved Choke every game. Hence the need for something like RR.

Round 1: 0-2 against UGB Jace-still... not a favorable matchup. Couldn't set up CBTop through his counter wall. He landed Jace first in both games. I never drew the Pierces in my SB. Pithing Needle on Jace and a Stifle on P Deed bought be some time but he drew too many cards for me to fight.

Round 2: 1-2 against Reanimator. Opponent kept a no land hand game 1 and ripped lands off the top 2 turns in a row. I mulliganed no land hands 3 times. Kept a risky 5-card Stifle Nought, no counter hand one game. He had turn 1 Duress every game and lucksacked the right color lands (he was playing budget with basics). Iona on blue both games kills me. Not happy about this round.

Round 3: 2-0 against ANT/TES (not sure which, he never got going). Early CBtop game 1, early Nought game 2.

Round 4: 2-1 against Dragon Stompy. He kills me game one with 2 of the 5/5 morphs, and locks me out before I can drop Nought. Games 2-3 I win off of Jace + Trinket Mages as blockers for his Maguses, with Blood Moon, 3 Sphere, and Chalice@1 all in play. Sometimes Jace just gets there...

Round 5: 2-0 Affinity. Early CBTop lock game 1, and I Wasteland his mana sources game 2. Spell Snare is pretty good against Cranial Plating.

Round 6: 1-1 draw against Enchantress. Game 1 I get CBTop down and protect it from Aura of Silence. Nought shows up, I FoW his Moat, and pay 2 to beat through Elephant Grass. Game 2 I keep 4 land, Stifle, Nought, Pithing Needle, while he mulls to 5. He plays Sterling Grove and I needle it. Stifle/Nought and he topdecks the Aura of Silence anyway. Balls. At one point he has an Aura of Silence in play, a Runed Halo naming Jace, and a Choke in play. I finally get 2 untapped blue/white sources and 4 colorless, to play EE for 2 and pop it. I ramp Jace up to 13, and the next turn he apparently draws Words of War off the top, so when Jace goes ultimate he doesn't deck himself and I have no way to remove it since my only EE is in my graveyard and I don't have any more colored lands in my deck to be able to recur it with Academy and play it at 3. Wow. Game 3 goes to time.

Dragon Stompy and Enchantress are played by sadists. They never put up results and only serve to ruin the day of random players.

All in all, I really like the deck, and I REALLY wanted to play against Merfolk or Survival with the Peacekeepers which were incredible in testing. Oh well... next time.

[Beware]

How has the one Trickbind been? I, honestly, wouldn't feel comfortable without 6 Stifle were I to be running 3 'Noughts. And what of the third Jace? It seems like you only need 2 with all that draw power you have (though it seems like it was a house for you at that tournament).

[keys]

How has the one Trickbind been? I, honestly, wouldn't feel comfortable without 6 Stifle were I to be running 3 'Noughts. And what of the third Jace? It seems like you only need 2 with all that draw power you have (though it seems like it was a house for you at that tournament).

Trickbind just isn't good enough to be run as a 2-of IMO. It's fantastic at catching greedy players who hold their counters for the 2-for-1, but it's too slow for most situations. I never really had trouble finding Nought or Stifle when I wanted it. 3 Nought/5 Stifle has worked for me.

You need to draw Jace when you play Peacekeeper. And it's just so good. No reason not to play 4.

[PanderAlexander]

Played at the Knight Ware 42 man tourney yesterday and went 3-2-1 against UBG Jacestill, Reanimator, ANT, Dragon Stompy, Affinity, and Enchantress.

I used Rich Shay's Uwb list with some tweaks:

3 Phyrexian Dreadnought (Rich's list originally had 4, but I went with the 3rd Jace)
3 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare (went with this over the 2/2 SS/Daze split)
1 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind

3 Jace, the Mind Sculpter (went up to 3)

3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill
1 Engineered Explosives

3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins (instead of the 4th Factory)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
3 Island

Sideboard:
3 Peacekeeper
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Perish
3 Spell Pierce
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Plains

The list has a LOT of 3s which looks terrible on paper but it seemed to be consistent enough with the considerable amount of card draw in Confidant/Standstill/Jace, and it's usually best not to see doubles. The Spell Snares were not as good as I expected, but I never faced Survival (which in testing was a heavily favorable matchup post-board). I felt like there weren't quite enough answers in the maindeck. A Rushing River or something similar might be necessary to deal with any problematic permanents that escape counters. I was fine without creature removal game 1 since Nought is always a faster clock. That said, all of my observations can probably be attributed to the fact that I hardly played any aggro all day. The Academy would have been gold against Enchantress if not for resolved Choke every game. Hence the need for something like RR.

Round 1: 0-2 against UGB Jace-still... not a favorable matchup. Couldn't set up CBTop through his counter wall. He landed Jace first in both games. I never drew the Pierces in my SB. Pithing Needle on Jace and a Stifle on P Deed bought be some time but he drew too many cards for me to fight.

Round 2: 1-2 against Reanimator. Opponent kept a no land hand game 1 and ripped lands off the top 2 turns in a row. I mulliganed no land hands 3 times. Kept a risky 5-card Stifle Nought, no counter hand one game. He had turn 1 Duress every game and lucksacked the right color lands (he was playing budget with basics). Iona on blue both games kills me. Not happy about this round.

Round 3: 2-0 against ANT/TES (not sure which, he never got going). Early CBtop game 1, early Nought game 2.

Round 4: 2-1 against Dragon Stompy. He kills me game one with 2 of the 5/5 morphs, and locks me out before I can drop Nought. Games 2-3 I win off of Jace + Trinket Mages as blockers for his Maguses, with Blood Moon, 3 Sphere, and Chalice@1 all in play. Sometimes Jace just gets there...

Round 5: 2-0 Affinity. Early CBTop lock game 1, and I Wasteland his mana sources game 2. Spell Snare is pretty good against Cranial Plating.

Round 6: 1-1 draw against Enchantress. Game 1 I get CBTop down and protect it from Aura of Silence. Nought shows up, I FoW his Moat, and pay 2 to beat through Elephant Grass. Game 2 I keep 4 land, Stifle, Nought, Pithing Needle, while he mulls to 5. He plays Sterling Grove and I needle it. Stifle/Nought and he topdecks the Aura of Silence anyway. Balls. At one point he has an Aura of Silence in play, a Runed Halo naming Jace, and a Choke in play. I finally get 2 untapped blue/white sources and 4 colorless, to play EE for 2 and pop it. I ramp Jace up to 13, and the next turn he apparently draws Words of War off the top, so when Jace goes ultimate he doesn't deck himself and I have no way to remove it since my only EE is in my graveyard and I don't have any more colored lands in my deck to be able to recur it with Academy and play it at 3. Wow. Game 3 goes to time.

Dragon Stompy and Enchantress are played by sadists. They never put up results and only serve to ruin the day of random players.

All in all, I really like the deck, and I REALLY wanted to play against Merfolk or Survival with the Peacekeepers which were incredible in testing. Oh well... next time.

Sucks man that you ran in to whacky matchups, especially that budget reanimator in round 2. It's so important to win the first and second rounds to keep getting paired with the tier decks. My friend heavily metagamed for survival/vengevine and merfolk yet he didn't run in to any either because he lost the first round and got paired against exactly the same matchups as you (I.E. affinity, dragon stompy, enchantress). Tons of survival and merfolk at the tournament, survival/vengevine and 4 merfolk (I was one of them) in the top 8.

[Sims]

Dragon Stompy and Enchantress are played by sadists. They never put up results and only serve to ruin the day of random players..

Hey, I resemble that remark. Difference is ontop of ruining players days, I've actually been tearing apart my meta left and right with that deck for a few weeks. Probably going to have to shelve it soon though, I think people are going to be sick of losing to blood moon and trinisphere and start changing decks.

On a more productive note:

How has Peacekeeper been? It's something I've wanted to test as a board option in some decks, to delay Vengevines until I can find an appropriate answer, for instance, but i've been worried about tying up mana and the like. Hasn't really been a problem for you?

[Beware]

Peacekeeper is simply the way of the future. It's excellent.