[DTB] Vial Goblins

[jrw1985]

That's Magic for ya. Whateryagonnado?

[arebennian]

It wasn't the vines that did me in game 2; it was keeping a six-card hand with vial and port and mountain, having him claim my Vial, and then his lucksacking not just out of mana screw from my port, but also into running wastelands, and then furthermore, when I got a pyrokinesis to blow his team away, which was a fresh Fauna Shaman and two Elves, and get lackey through, it was him having his 1-of caller of the claw in hand.

Cool.
Do you have a list for the Elf/Vengevine deck that beat you? Did it make the top 8 or anything and have the results posted somewhere?

[Tacosnape]

Why Planar Void, ScatmanX? It's completely awful against Vengevine Survival, given that it doesn't stop Mongrel/Moeba, Vengevine, Rootwalla, return Vengevine, swaaang.

Black gives you Extirpate and Nihil Spellbomb, which are your two best options right now, both of which should be taking spots before Planar Void. Red has to make do with Leyline, Crypt, or Faerie Macabre.

[ScatmanX]

Why Planar Void, ScatmanX.

I only have 1 Extirpate! =P
My options were Planar Voit, Relic, Nihill and Faerie, and since I saw Dredge in the champ, I opted for Planar Void (that won me G2 against it).

Agains UGMadness, I sided +3 Knesis, +3 Needle, +3 Claim, -4 Vial,-1 Gempalm,-1Weirding,-1 Wort, -2MWM if I recall... so there was not even room for gravehate, and I'd not bring in Extirpate even if I was running it.

[Ozymandias]

One of my big issues with GY hate that costs mana vs. Vengevine is that it bones your tempo to keep mana open, and even if you do have a black source open, your opp can just Waste it, because they play those. If you keep spellbomb mana open, they even have Nature's Claim as an out. Now that I think about it, the best anti-VV hate for goblins is probably Faerie Macabre, since it requires no triggering preconditions, no mana open, can't be removed, and is okay as a topdeck.

[Koby]

Faerie Macabre is probably the best as a 4x due to the surprise factor vs VV. Nihil Spellbomb isn't bad either, since you don't need to leave mana up to use it (just to cantrip). But ultimately it runs the same problem as Tormod's Crypt - it can still be removed with Nature's Claim or Trygon Predator.

Do you have a list for the Elf/Vengevine deck that beat you? Did it make the top 8 or anything and have the results posted somewhere?

Check the UG Vengevine thread. My list. :P

[Tacosnape]

One of my big issues with GY hate that costs mana vs. Vengevine is that it bones your tempo to keep mana open, and even if you do have a black source open, your opp can just Waste it, because they play those. If you keep spellbomb mana open, they even have Nature's Claim as an out. Now that I think about it, the best anti-VV hate for goblins is probably Faerie Macabre, since it requires no triggering preconditions, no mana open, can't be removed, and is okay as a topdeck.

You do realize you don't have to keep mana open for Nihil Spellbomb, right? That's why it's fantastic. It's like mixing Crypt and Relic. You can either have the speed or the card.

That said, every single choice other than Extirpate or Leyline is going to often involve your graveyard hate being baited out by small 1 or 2 Vengevine at a time combinations, with a second wave following. Granted, sometimes that's enough tempo to win, but just saying.

[Ozymandias]

My issue with Spellbomb isn't the mana- it's that you're going to get your spellbomb claimed.

[GoboLord]

Hey guys,

I just had a rather crazy idea.
What if we'd play Engineered Plague in SB? I mean it could be a secret tech against Vengevival: It keeps those nasty 1-mana creature away:

Mother of Runes - Human Cleric
Noble Hierarch - Human Druid
Loyal Retainers - Human Advisor

Against Rock:
Dark Confidant - Human Wizard
Qasali Pridemage - Cat Wizard

Against Zoo:
Wild Nacatl - Cat Warrior
Steppe Lynx - Cat
Qasali Pridemage - Cat Wizard
Grim Lavamancer - Human Wizard

Besides it can be used against any other tribal deck: Merfol, Elves and even Goblins! If we put enough Goblin Chieftain in MD we could even use it in mirrormatch.

What do you think?

//EDIT:

Here's a list that I designed, it surely can be improved

//LANDS [22]
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Badlands
7 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Ancient Tomb

//CORE [24]
Vial, Lackey, Piledriver, Warchief, Matron, Ringleader

//FLEX-Slots [9]
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Weiridng
1 SGC

//TECH [5]
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Boggart Mob
1 Earwig Squad

//SIDEBOARD [15]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Engineered Plague
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

[dethangel666]

How does goblin do aganist tempo decks?

[ScatmanX]

What if we'd play Engineered Plague in SB?

Plague is also good against Dredge (Horror/Illusion/Zombie).
In that list, I'd change 1 or 2 Chiefteins for Buartusk Lieges.

If you're going to test that, let us know what you think later.

[GoboLord]

Plague is also good against Dredge (Horror/Illusion/Zombie).
In that list, I'd change 1 or 2 Chiefteins for Buartusk Lieges.

If you're going to test that, let us know what you think later.

Sure it can be used against dredge but it's not optimal, since we have better solutions. The thing is that I want to find out in which MUs it can be boarded effectively without dilluting our deck. Plus, I don't want the MD to be much different from other Gonblin lists, because that will probably cost consistancy and speed.
I will test it and let you know what I think.

[ScatmanX]

Sure it can be used against dredge but it's not optimal, since we have better solutions. The thing is that I want to find out in which MUs it can be boarded effectively without dilluting our deck. Plus, I don't want the MD to be much different from other Gonblin lists, because that will probably cost consistancy and speed.
I will test it and let you know what I think.

I think it is great against Ichorid, since I've used in other decks against it. r Mana to shut sown all they're Ichorids is pretty nifty. Also, you can turn their tokens into Sharpshooter range.
Well, playstile i think...

@Boartusk: He is a solid creature to run MD. It is very good vs Fish, mirror and Zoo. I'd give 1 a try if you never did...
edit: ok, maybe with 15 red sources, he may not be that great.

[Hof]

Honestly, I don't think its a good idea. First, Engineered Plague isn't even a very good card in the format with all those modern +1/+1 tribal lords (don't tell the non-Goblin players). Secondly, there are much better options available for the matchups you listed. Pyrokinesis is only one of them. Plague doesn't to anything to Vengevines, so how can it be any good in that matchup?! And its too slow, three mana! Same as Sharpshooter?! I don't think they care about losing their Noble Hierarch if they already have an active Survival. If you wanted to take out Noble Hierarch and the likes, Mogg Fanatic is probably much better. And for Plague in the mirror match.. well they will not see it coming, that much is guaranteed.

[Vandalize]

Hahaha, GoboLord, I've been testing Engineered Plague two weeks ago, since I was sick and tired of Qasali Pridemage and Grim Lavamancers raining on my parade. The enchantment makes Goblin Sharpshooter a real pro sniper, but I also think Pyrokinesis is a better option (nature's claim is shining bright on every single deck).

This is the decklist I've been running:

Lands [22]

8x Mountain
4x Wasteland
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Badlands
2x Ancient Tomb (<- really nice idea gobo)
1x Swamp

Core [25]

4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x AEther Vial
1x Siege-Gang Commander (cut one of these for a second Earwig Squad, explanations below)

Flexible Slots [13]

3x Gempalm Incinerator
2x Warren Weirding
2x Earwig Squad
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Goblin Chieftain (perhaps this is the right number)
1x Wort, Boggart Auntie
1x Stingscourger

Sideboard [15]

1x Goblin Sharpshooter
4x Pyrokinesis
4x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Perish
3x Extirpate

Hmm, here we go... Cut one of the SGC for a second Earwig Squad because they're really, really good against some common matchups where I live (Solitarie and Surivival of the Fittest variants). Extirpate is there for the same reason. Uh, Perish is great, period.

I'm using Nihil Spellbomb because I tried over and over, but I can't like LofV.

[GoboLord]

Here is an update. I did some testing, but didnt get to use Plague too often. But the last game I had was really interesting. I played against Uwgr Countertop. I boarded Plague to hit Elspeth's tokens, but then I came to set it on "Wizard", hitting his Vendilion Clique and Grim Lavamancer!!
So here's an update:

GW SURVIVAL
Mother of Runes - Human Cleric
Noble Hierarch - Human Druid
Loyal Retainers - Human Advisor

ROCK
Dark Confidant - Human Wizard
Qasali Pridemage - Cat Wizard

ZOO
Wild Nacatl - Cat Warrior
Steppe Lynx - Cat
Qasali Pridemage - Cat Wizard
Grim Lavamancer - Human Wizard

Uwgr COUNTERTOP
Elspeth's tokens - Soldier
Vendilion Clique - Faerie Wizard
Grim Lavamancer - Human Wizard

TRIBALS
Goblins
Elves
Merfolk (maybe)
Tempo Faeries

[dethangel666]

Why do some goblin deck runs Auntie's Hovel?

[Ozymandias]

Auntie's hovel should really be badlands 5-8, but since I only own 2 badlands in it went. As it stands, it's a pain free dual land for r-b goblins, and so it's a pretty good substitute for this deck, especially since life lost fetching can add up.

[lebarion]

Why do some goblin deck runs Auntie's Hovel?

Because it is usually better to have a non-basic land wasted than a fetch stifled.
But I think it depends no which you face more. Currently, i'd play more fetches.

[Justin]

Auntie's Hovel is pretty much a Badland that you can't fetch in this deck. It will almost never come into the battlefield tapped because of all the goblins this deck runs. At the end of the game, when you have no goblins in hand and are in top deck mode, it doesn't matter that it comes into play tapped. Hovel has a few advantages over running fetches. Hovel keeps your life total higher and cannot be stifled. Because Hovel does not shuffle your library, it keeps the non-goblin cards you don't need that you revealed from a Ringleader on the bottom of your deck. So you could argue that your draws might be slightly better running Hovel over fetches. On the other hand, fetches do thin your deck and they are less vulnerable to some non-basic hate like Wasteland.