Typically you are winning game 1 against most decks if they don't have graveard removal. The urza's factory doesn't require you to have loam or crucible, whereas with the castle, you need to sac it and replay it to get another guy. O-stone has always been good for me when i blow it up. Even if you happen to blow up your own things (which you can save if you have the time), if you reset the board with a loam in the graveyard, you should be winning. It also answers annoying cards, and multiple casting costs, or things >5 at the same time, unlike E.E. Recurring ostone with ruins is also a lot better than recurring E.E.Originally Posted by GoldenCid
In the past when the lands deck typicaly won with beating with factory, treetop, and moastery it would be crazy not to play man lands. But now with the change in other decks and the addition of utility artifacts, most lands decks only play 4 factories. I decided to cut them alltogether, because i was never really winning with attacking with factory (they were usually a defensive play), and the decks that the manlands were good against (slow control) would leave some number of swords post board and just kill them.
Most games seem to end when opponenets have no lands in play.
I'm going to test +1 ring in the main, move the orb to the side, and cut the needle from the board to see if that helps
Yeah but Gargoyles fly! You can play around moat and similar. On the other hand i've never put more than 2 tokens. The most of time i win with just 1.
Slaver and O-stone are two of my favourite artifacts....the don't go well tihe confidant but i think i'll give a test to stone at least.
On running mox. Isn't it a very bad topdeck in late game...i mean wherever it is, library or yard, i'd always prefer it to be a land.
mox is like half an exploration. absolutely vital, as it allows you to virtually go first. How many games ahve you started locking your opponent, on the draw, by playing port, mox? Mox is nuts.
More importantly, it let's you play around daze and spell pierce, especially to resolve intuitions.
Level 2 Judge
Owner, Tales of Adventure Comics and Games, Coopersburg, PA
Mox has been overall a very good card, and late game you are typically dredging anyways so it's hardly a dead card then. It also lets you play your colored spells easier, among the other reasons posted above if you play gamble/entomb and double blue for tolaria. It also lets you get to 5 for your E.E
Ok...i'll try mox. It allows you to play around moon effects.
I'll do:
-1 Karakas -1 T. village -1 Tranquil thicket -1 Tolaria west + 4 Mox and
-1 Wurmcoil engine -1 Realms uncharted +1 Crucible of worlds +1 Mindslaver.
What do you think???
Cards that i consider are required in any land deck (my current list is post #758 with Main:-1 Zuran Orb +1 Barbarian Ring Side: +1 Zuran Orb -1 pithing needle)
Mana Ramp:
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
3-4 Manabond
Draw + Tutor
4 Life from the Loam
4-5 (some number of intuition and/or gamble/entomb) (I run 3 intuition 2 gamble)
4-5 (Combonation of Tranquil Thicket and Tolaria West) (I run 3 Thicket 2 West)
Mana Base
3-4 Green Fetchlands (The more colors you are playing, the more you should play)
4-5+ Green Revised Duals (The more colors you are playing, the more you should play, and at least 3+ blue if playing tolaria west)
1 Forest
Mana Denial
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1+ Ghost Quarter
Creature Denial
4 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
0-1 Glacial Chasm
Utility
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Academy Ruins
47-53+ So far. My list plays 53 of those cards
Other cards to fill up or to help certain matchups
Anti-Hate
Crucible of Worlds
Anti-Graveyard
Tormod's Crypt
Bojuka Bog
More anti-creature
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Nomad Stadium
1 Zuran Orb
1 Karakas
More Win conditions
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Urza’s Factory
Man-Lands:
Mishra's Factory
Treetop
Nantuko Monastery
Worldwake Mandlands
Gargoyle Castle
1 Mindslaver + more mana through these next 2 lands
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Riftstone Portal
Misc.:
Dust Bowl - allows mana denial w/o loam
Volrath's Stronghold + creatures (including dark confidant, Meloku, etc.)
Side Board Options:
any of the cards above not played maindeck
Chalice of the Void
Tormod’s Crypt
Pithing Needle
Krosan Grip
Ancient Grudge
Ray of Revelation
Leyline of the Void
Mindbreak Trap
Smokestack
Firebolt
Extirpate
Flame Jab
Trinisphere
I might be missing some cards, but that's all the other cards i can think of off the top of my head or have tried in the past
you probably only need 1 black source in your deck and i think a bayou might be better. especially with the addition of the moxen
I would never play with 3 life from the loams, unless i had burning with and 1 in the side. It's the best card in the deck. what is your reasoning for playing 3?
crucible is best squeezed in the sideboard, because you don't really need it game 1 against ppl
i'm assuming the shock lands are due to budget?
how have you liked horizon canopy? I've tried it once in the deck when i forgot a card at the tourament and i think it's only good to save a loam or for card draw, where a thicket would be better.
A- I'm not really sure. I'm testing that. It happened in some matchs that i needed to play lands from yard without dredging because i needed to draw not dredge i thought that crucible was an option.
B- Completely right (i should run tropical instead of B. pool and taiga instead of S. ground)
C- I really like it. It's not a tapland, gives G and provides draw. Tranquil thicket is cool too but sometimes you need to drop an untapped land and yu mcan`t with it. Canopy combine both situations.
What about leyline of sancticity??
If you are boarding that in against burn/zoo, it doesn't affect Price of Progress, which is the most difficult card to deal with and against combo they can bouce it. Also, it is hard to cast later in the game, which may be too slow
Yes that's right, but LoS eats a burn by itself. I know it can't deal with price of progress but i think i worths. Everything can be bounced but what would you place in its place? Chalice?? I'm not sure. Chalice @1 eats exploration and mana bound @0 eats mox, off course you'll play first mox then chalice but i don't know...maybe thoughseize could be a good choice...
Last edited by GoldenCid; 11-19-2010 at 11:00 PM.
Chalice @ 0 then mana denial is my plan against tendrils. I can gamble or transmute for it. You would be playing your moxen first, then chalice.
Chalice @1 is good against extirpate, and i usually board 1-2 in aginst black decks.
If you let them ramp with artifact mana into an ad naus, they will most likely draw their bounce, but a chalice @0 stops a lot of their artifact mana, and chalice @1 stops their storm mana.
But how do you Side it? + X Chalice -X Exploration / Mana bound??
I would probably go like this against TES, depending on their build it can change
+4 chalice
+1 zuran orb
+2 ancient grudge
-1 chasm
-4 maze
-1 o.stone
-1 bridge
Today i tested tar pit and crucible main deck. Tar instead of 1 mishra's and crucile instead of the 4th loam. Bot were cool. Crucible says: "keep playing in spite of lam was extirpated" aND Creeping tar pit was a new win cond.
My side was:
4 Leyline of sancticity (ate a burn itself) should i run chalice here?
4 Confidant (in the control / combo match he's a good plan)
3 Krosan
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka
1 Bridge
1 Explosives.
If you are interested here is the decklist:
/ Lands
2 [EVG] Tranquil Thicket
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [JU] Riftstone Portal
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
1 [RAV] Forest (3)
2 [U] Tropical Island
2 [FUT] Tolaria West
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [M10] Gargoyle Castle
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [OD] Barbarian Ring
1 [GP] Stomping Ground
1 [DIS] Breeding Pool
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
2 [R] Underground Sea
1 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit*
// Spells
3 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [EX] Manabond
4 [US] Exploration
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [IA] Zuran Orb
4 [TE] Intuition
1 [MR] Mindslaver*
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds*
mmmm...ok! I don't know. You can go for chalice 0, then exploration and finaly after some time a chalice 1.
I think you definetely want a fourth Loam and a fourth Port and Ghost Quarter. I would cut Bojuka Bog, Volrath's Stronghold and USea (2nd USea should be Bayou). Stronghold doesn't do anything preboard and postboard I think it's less than exiting to recur a dredged Dark Confidant (I would always rather keep dredging). Bojuka Bog might be due to your meta, but what are you afraid of here? Lands should beat Ichorid (and their hands you don't beat, having to find a random Bog won't help). Against Reanimator - if that's still around - Bog is quite bad. I have not yet seen the Lands mirror.
I guess MD Crucible is fine if you face a lot of Cunning Wish -> Extirpate or something like that. But barring that, I would move that Crucible to the sideboard (and add a 2nd).
(my list, for reference, is still close to this: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...=55&iddeck=632 - with +Gargoyle Castle, -Factory)
Running anything less than 4 Loam is just utter crap. You run Intuition mainly for grabbing Loam+Utility lands in case you don't open up on Loam. Don't cut Loam! Don't!
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
Yeah, everything you say is so cool, but can you suggest adding and CUTS for the side? I you say add this and this and this, but you don't say what to cut is not so helpfull.
On the other hand,,,i like the idea of running sphere of resistence post side. It fights combo and but as for the same.
I'll Try a side like this (comments are welcomed):
4 Sphere of resistence
2 Bojuka
1 Ensnaring bridge
1 Wurmcoil engine
2 Crucible (4th loam md)
1 Smokestack
3 K. grip
1 E. explosives
Last edited by GoldenCid; 11-21-2010 at 07:37 PM.
i like a mix of tormod's crypt and bojuka
crypt has the benefit of being able to be activtated at any time, but can be pithing needled or destroyed or therapy'ed away
bojuka can only be played turning your turn, but it eaiser to recur and harder to interact with
Also, i have tried smokestack in the past. it is only good against slow control, where your deck is pretty good against, and takes a while for you to get benefit out of. O.stone can, if you have enough mana, be played and activated the same turn, which has an immediate effect on the game, and since it can hit multiple threats, including planeswalkers, I found it to be better than the stax
I suggest the following changes:
-1 Underground Sea +1 Bayou
-1 Volrath's Stronghold +1 Fetchland (need at 3 to 4 in my opinion)
-1 Bojuka Bog +1 Tolaria West (This card is an all star)
-1 Crucible of Worlds +1 Life from the Loam (game 1 w/ 3 thickets you are not as suseptable to yard hate as you think, since you can thicket in responce to relic / crypt / whatever)
-1 Horizon Canapy +1 Cephalid Coliseum (Isn't this better for drawing cards?)
Concerning your sideboard, everything looks fine except the Sphere's of Resistance. Personally I don't like those in lands.
#1 they slow your loaming down, and the deck is slow enough as it is.
#2 (and more important) the deck doesn't have a fast enough clock to take advantage of the tempo boost that sphere provides. Sure sphere slows TES down a lot, but are we killing them fast enough to prevent them from bouncing it a few turns down the road and going off? Usually not.#3 Chalice is more versatile. It is great against zoo decks as a midgame fetch w/ tolaria west and dropping it for one to slow down their burn spells.
If you want to try the sphere effect route, why not really experement and run loadstone golems out of the side? It still adds casting cost by 1 (granted it doesn't effect artifacts but oh well) and provides a substantial clock for the combo deck to have to deal with. (note: don't anyone take this as me saying lodestones are better than chalice, I for one stick with chalice)
I'm confused. I said: Add Loam, Port, Bayou, Ghost Quarter and cut 2xUSea, Bojuka Bog, Stronghold (providing explanations why I would make these cuts). About the sideboard I only said you might free another MD slot by moving Crucible there. But to make a comment about your board: What are the advantages of Bojuka Bog over Tormod's Crypt? That it can be recurred more easily? But is this better than the instant speed of crypt - say vs. Vengevines or Reanimator or even Dredge?
Concerning Sphere of Resistance vs Chalice of the Void, I am a proponent of Sphere. Chalice might be better against Storm and have marginal uses against Zoo, Thresh etc. but are you honestly going to bring in Chalice against Zoo etc.? At least I wouldn't. The matchup is perfectly fine without and I cannot fathom what to cut for Chalice there. Sphere on the other hand helps tremendously in those Combo-Matchups, that you actually have a chance to win, i.e., Aluren, Dream Halls, Show and Tell and the like - matchups that Chalice does nothing in. While you may not have the clock to back it up, you have Ports and Wastelands, which is about the same, functionally.
It can also be quite good vs. Storm, as it forces them to either play their artifacts (loosing storm) or try to accumulate Lands for Bounce/Grip, and this deck is really good at killing lands. I also makes cantripping into answers harder (which Chalice at 1 does, but not Chalice at 0). But that said, I am willing to concede that Chalice is better vs Storm, but you cannot possibly win that (consistently) anyway.
The best card vs Storm seems to be Zuran Orb by the way. At least it's the only card that won (or came close to win) me matches against Storm. Manabond + Loam + Orb let you get out of reach quite quickly (but obviously a lot has to go right for that to happen).
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
