[Deck] Belcher

[keys]

You need Monolith if you want to play Opal. Ideally there would be another artifact initial mana source to replace Tinder Wall... I think you're diluting the deck too much with Welder. Turning on your opponent's creature removal isn't fun either.

[Tenth]

I think Voltaic key could help with Opals metelcraft drwaback and get really interesting with Grim Monolith.

I think I will test out this list a bit.

4x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Empty the Warrens
4x Tinder Wall
4x Rite of Flame
4x Pyretic Ritual
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Elvish Spirit guide
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Grim Monolith
4x Chrome Mox
4x Mox Opal
4x Voltaic Key
4x Street Wraith / 4x Burning Wish / 4x Manamorphoses

28 artifacts if you count Belcher. I'll report back after testing.

[keys]

I'm curious if it works, but I think the narrowness of Key will prove to be ineffective. Also, I would probably cut Tinder Wall before I cut Seething Song. It's by far the weakest ritual with only 8 green sources in the deck (unless you count Opal).

[median]

You'd want to cut chrome mox first, very little can be imprinted with 28 artifacts.

[Tenth]

@keys I think you are right about Voltaic Key I goldfished about 15 games and it was only useful once.
I am now looking at this list:

4x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Empty the Warrens

4x Tinder Wall
4x Seething Song
4x Rite of Flame
4x Pyretic Ritual
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Elvish Spirit guide
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Manamorphoses

4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Grim Monolith
4x Chrome Mox
4x Mox Opal

I would really like to fit one more set of artifacts in but I can't seem to find the right card. I considered chromatic star but if I am going to go off turn one it just eats up 1 mana.

[Dm225]

This is what I'm thinking about building, thoughts on the sideboard?

//Artifact

4 Chrome Mox
4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

//Creature

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Tinder Wall

//Instant

4 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Seething Song

//Sorcery

4 Burning Wish
3 Empty the Warrens
4 Land Grant
4 Rite of Flame

//Land

1 Taiga

//Sideboard

4 Ingot Chewer
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Grapeshot
1 Hull Breach
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reverent Silence
1 Shattering Spree

[median]

That looks decent, I would try and work in guttural response in the side board. I like it more than swarm.

[median]

Sorry for the double post, but i just had an idea, has anyone though of leyline of anticipation as a solution to the mirror/ other fast decks?

[Dm225]

That looks decent, I would try and work in guttural response in the side board. I like it more than swarm.

How many "anti-blue" cards are reasonable? Would 8 be too many? Because that seems to be the worst matchup obviously.

[GoldenCid]

How many "anti-blue" cards are reasonable? Would 8 be too many? Because that seems to be the worst matchup obviously.

Concerning that...i'm intruducing myself into belcher and i wanted to know which are the wosrt matchups...I know discard is bad but counter decks and ever worst right?

[keys]

Concerning that...i'm intruducing myself into belcher and i wanted to know which are the wosrt matchups...I know discard is bad but counter decks and ever worst right?

The worst matchups would be Counterbalance and tempo decks, followed by Stax and TES.

CBTop shuts you off rituals, and FoW/Spell Snare/Counterspell are the nail in the coffin. Go for early EtW if you can game 1. Game 2 you have to anticipate Firespout... You can bring in blasts and wish for Reverent Silence if CB hits play.

Tempo decks like Can Thresh, New Horizons, and Merfolk (to some extent) are a pain since they also pack Stifle. Xantid Swarm is key here.

Stax/Dragon Stompy can get lucky with turn one Trinisphere/Chalice and shut you out. Dragon Stompy will bring in sweepers like Volcanic Fallout. You want Ingot Chewers and/or Shattering Sprees.

TES can also be a difficult matchup because they play Duress and Silence as well as a clock that isn't much slower. You don't really have a board against other storm combo... just hope to go off turn 1. Maybe Leyline of Anticipation, as median suggested?

Those are your bad matchups. Good luck!

[GoldenCid]

TES can also be a difficult matchup because they play Duress and Silence as well as a clock that isn't much slower. You don't really have a board against other storm combo... just hope to go off turn 1. Maybe Leyline of Anticipation, as median suggested?

Those are your bad matchups. Good luck!

Thx!!!
Maybe against TEs or storm combo (solidarity) X. swarm coulb be an option to stop their silence / counters.

1 more question, what version has shown to be more stable? 1 or 2 lands?

[JonBarber]

Thx!!!
Maybe against TEs or storm combo (solidarity) X. swarm coulb be an option to stop their silence / counters.

1 more question, what version has shown to be more stable? 1 or 2 lands?

1 Land. It also fizzles much much less

[GoldenCid]

Ok....i wanted to give a chance to 2 land belcher and i found that it's very stable if you have the apropiate skills. I provides you more chances to go oof via belcher (one turn kill) with a minimun probability of revealing a land before the first 10 top cards. Beside, it gives you more opportunitis in the side. What do you think?

This is my list:



// Lands
1 Taiga
1 Bayou

// Creatures
4 [IA] Tinder Wall
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [MM] Land Grant
3 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [MR] Goblin Charbelcher
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [U] Dark Ritual
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [SHM] Manamorphose
4 [CHK] Desperate Ritual
4 [9E] Seething Song

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 3 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [M10] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [FNM] Duress
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach

[popiezhius]

Ok....i wanted to give a chance to 2 land belcher and i found that it's very stable if you have the apropiate skills. I provides you more chances to go oof via belcher (one turn kill) with a minimun probability of revealing a land before the first 10 top cards. Beside, it gives you more opportunitis in the side. What do you think?

I have tested similar version (-4 manamorphose, +4 chrome mox) some time ago. It seems that it wins more often win turn one than One land belcher without black, but its main weakness - 14 win conditions seems too many, quite often You need to mulligan, because You have hands with 3 wincons. I would play Rgb without tutors (or maybe with 1 or 2 tutors only), only with rituals as black cards.

P.S. 1 Infernal tutor should be in sideboard, be it 2 land or 1 land version.

[GoldenCid]

I would play Rgb without tutors (or maybe with 1 or 2 tutors only), only with rituals as black cards.

Nice...what would you cut and what would you add??

[Tenth]

Thx!!!
Maybe against TEs or storm combo (solidarity) X. swarm coulb be an option to stop their silence / counters.

1 more question, what version has shown to be more stable? 1 or 2 lands?

I have to play against TES almost every week in my meta and I have found 4x Mindbreak trap to be the best sideboard option.
It does slow me down but if my win condition is duressed it gives me time to draw another. If I am not duressed and they go for the win it can just shut them down and buy me a few turns while they rebuild there hand.
With minbreak trap in hand other combo players have to play slower and more cautious, an orims chant or multiple duress's are usually a must for them to win.

[GoldenCid]

I have to play against TES almost every week in my meta and I have found 4x Mindbreak trap to be the best sideboard option.
It does slow me down but if my win condition is duressed it gives me time to draw another. If I am not duressed and they go for the win it can just shut them down and buy me a few turns while they rebuild there hand.
With minbreak trap in hand other combo players have to play slower and more cautious, an orims chant or multiple duress's are usually a must for them to win.

Respect to 1 or 2 lands...i ave found that 2 lands has a little risk of revealing a taiga before the first 10 cards. But on the other side i showed to be a bit versaliter than 1 land. In my experience after the my question you quoted with 1 land i always went off consitently in T1 or 2 via warrens (80% EtW - 20% GB).
With 2 land it's a bit displaced to t2 (lot of times you go off in t1 but not as much as 1 land) going off via belcher - warrens (50%-50%) whch is better.

[popiezhius]

Nice...what would you cut and what would you add??

-1-3 infernal tutor, -3-0 manamorphose, +3-4 chrome mox to Your list.
There is another possibility - try 3 Spoils of the vault in Your list instead of infernal tutor, however I did not test it myself. It cost 1 mana less and does not require hellbent, but I'm not sure about its drawback.

[GoldenCid]

-1-3 infernal tutor, -3-0 manamorphose, +3-4 chrome mox to Your list.
There is another possibility - try 3 Spoils of the vault in Your list instead of infernal tutor, however I did not test it myself. It cost 1 mana less and does not require hellbent, but I'm not sure about its drawback.

Yeah my bad...i make a mistake in my posted list where it says 4 Manamorphose i should say 4 Chrome mox.

On spoils its similar to Plunge into darkness but i'm not sure if they are as good as the tutor...if i have to choose i'd choose plunge.

So...i don`t know if i cut 1 Tutor what could be a good replacement??1 Pyretic ritual? 1 Cabal ritual?1 Wild cantor?