I considered swarm to. Truth is, against those decks I fear most not having mana to combo off due to land dirsuption, since I already play 7 MD chants to avoid counterspells and slow them down a bit (and there's always LED to bait a force, If I can afford it). Sure, If I could pack a couple of extirpate vs vengevines and other combo decks, it would be great as well... The fact is Xantd becomes good in 3+-of, and I'm not sure I want to leave out carpet of flowers.
Are there enough bouncers, in your opinion? How do you see deathmark vs infest of grapeshot? (despite the fact that in marginal cases, deathmark can hit goyf and iona other than the classical targets, i.e. MM, canonist and teeg which get hit by infest as well?)
Originally Posted by mossivo1986
Hi this is my first post after registering although I have been a regular visitor to the Source for some time. I would like to share my decklist and ask for any comments/improvements I could possibly make.
I top4 split a regular legacy tournament on Sunday with this list with a local meta of Belcher, Madness Survival and Merfolk.
// Lands
1 [ZEN] Island
1 [ZEN] Swamp
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [B] Badlands
// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
2 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [M10] Ponder
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [M10] Duress
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [B] Tropical Island
SB: 4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
I play something pretty close to this so I don't have much useful deckbuilding advice other than: You have no basic mountains maindeck or sideboard, but do have basic swamp and basic island, so you most definitely want 4 Polluted Delta before 4 Scalding Tarn.
I couldn't find the 3rd/4th Polluted Delta so I had to use 2 Misty Rainforests to fill in instead. Ideally they would be Polluted Deltas..
Have people figured out Preordain is better than ponder?
In case someone is counting, it's +1 nats top8 for TES.
I played McCalls list as its only a few cards off of the one I've been mtgo'ing with for the last 2 months or so, and those differences are due to mtgo not having some cards I'd like to play so I guess calling it McCalls list is mostly for the ease of reference.
Went 5-0-2 in the swiss beating burn, survival, reanimator (really wasnt expecting to face iona, but it's not that bad), stiflenought and at some point some emo green player who had seemingly endless discards and no beaters.
Then I punted my top8 match (I keep up this tradition of punting one game every tournament) and then mulled to 5 and drew all lands in G2. Against ww, in case someone was under the impression my opponent had something to do with my loss. Well, yeah, he didn't. It was all me.
I would have faced a rather soft mu in UGw survival and then another cakewalk in some GW deck, had I not ****ed up.
The list is awesome, I wouldn't change a thing about it. I suggest you try it out if you haven't already.
I'm probably going to rock the 5c list with chants Monday for our monthly Legacy tournament. Wish me luck :)
And I received an early birthday present.. a foil Brainstorm :)
On a more constructive note - if I know there's going to be a lot of Hymn to Tourach and Duress effects running around, should I run Dark Confidant?
I'm seriously thinking about it.
Comments? Advice?
It is agreed upon that you odn'tneed confidant,.. The strategy is drop artifact mana into play and wait to launch ad nauseam at them since discard strats do nothing when ad nauseam cna replenish your hand,.. so you only really need something like.. LED (in play), rit, infernal tutor + one more mana (could be land, could be petal, could be anything) => ad naeaseam
An active bob doesnt exactly hurt you there. (you know what I mean..)
If you expect combo decks, a few confidants are perfectly serviceable.
I've been pretty happy with them, and I've had some number in my combo decks sb's for almost a year now I think.
Depends on your build. The situations in which Preordain is situationally better than Ponder (1 very needed card, 2 mediocre ones without shuffle effect after Ponder) come up more often when you go 5c as compared to when you use a more FT-ish manabase. If you play enough fetchlands to avoid situations where Preordain is better via judicious use of fetches, Ponder > Preordain, always.
@ Randomgestures:
You don't need Bob in sideboards. In control matchups like Landstill, especially white builds, they typically leave removal in due to Swarms and because they have plenty of other dead cards to side out first. Bob is of course terrible against aggro and situationally useful against combo. Problem is that many other cards break the combo matchup open far more than bob does. Decks packing discard often pack removal as well, and while they're more likely to side removal out than blue control decks, the matchup is already pretty winnable without bob.
Discard matchups are played kind of how you would play against Stax, laying down artifact mana to avoid getting blown out by discard. The most straightforward way to win is via IGG, so allowing burning wish to be discarded and casting IT to get extra artifact mana when you can't go IT -> adn is usually the way to go. You then win once you can go IT -> adn or when you draw your second tutor effect with wish either in hand or grave to go BW -> IGG loop -> BW/IT for ToA or IT -> BW -> IGG -> IT -> ToA. You won't need max storm most of the time as discard heavy decks typically play bob and fetches. A mini tendrils when you lay out artifact mana is good to set the above up too.
The aim post board is to stay as bomb heavy as possible, with IGG typically remaining in board.
One must imagine Sisyphus happy.
For me Ponder >> Preordain cause the only case where Preordain is better is 2 bad cards and 1 good one without shuffle effect and not going off , everytime a use Ponder I think if Preordain would be better and 80% of the time I would stay with Ponder.
Obs:I'm running 5c version , at 3c things could be less clear , but I still belive Ponder is better cause dig 4 cards are really powerfull when you have many similar cards at your deck.
Super Bizarros Team.
HUEHUEHUE BRBRBR. VIVA DILMA!!! EM NOME DE JESUS CRISTO!
Confidant is good against Hymn to Tourach decks but against those decks you can just play Diamond and then some lands and then if you peel basically any spell in the midgame you kill them on the spot. Confidant is also good in the mirror.
Ponder is better than Preordain. Digging deeper for bombs and mana is much more relevant than occasionally being forced to keep a bad second card.
re: Carpet of Flowers: you wouldn't need the extra mana if you cut your Chants. Now you have room for Swarm *and* Thoughtseize.
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
Ponder is better for the same reason that we sometimes cast Turn 1 Brainstorm on the play. The deck can be very explosive and sometimes all you need is to dig for a LED or a bomb. And in my book digging for one extra card is a huge advantage.
I don't think people mainphase Brainstorm nearly often enough.we sometimes cast Turn 1 Brainstorm on the play.
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
I do it way more than people think, it's a rarety for me to hold a Brainstorm to use it on their turn. Unless I'm playing against discard.
Me too.
same here. The card you dig deeper can mean the world somethimes.
Oh, for sure. And even against discard, you can always Brainstorm under the assumption that they're going to Duress you anyway.
(on a related note, I think that people hold Diamond in their hand against Duress decks way too much. Heh.)
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
I'm on the Ponder > Preordain bandwagon.
I've won too many games off the shuffle/draw effect to not run it.
Knowing when to brainstorm is probably the most difficult play in this deck. You might draw into the nuts and win immediately, or you might draw crap. if you get something in between then your going to have to keep good stuff in your hand that can be discarded away. It's always safest to brainstorm on their end step, but that often means you'll loose one to two turns of tempo.
My rule is "When in doubt brainstorm", even if they have a duress; casting duress is almost as difficult, and half the time it won't matter if you held on to what was important or not.
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