I'd really rather they don't ban survival. It's a good card an finally has found a home in a competitive deck. It's been posting good numbers, but it's also been one of the most played decks at tournaments, and has been preying on other popular decks.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...s_of_Data.html
This article shows that the only other deck played more than survival is merfolk, which has a dreadful match up against survival. Only makes sense that it posts good results when the meta is either playing survival or playing decks that lose to it.
Heck, if you come up with a deck that beats both merfolk and survival with 55+% I think you'd sweep a tournament.
We're working on it, it's called Rock.
-Matt
Good call. Get some. And do it fast before a ban.Originally Posted by sdematt
We're working on it, it's called Rock.
-Matt
So, anyone following this on salvation? Evan Erwin popped on, who some may argue is a catalyst for this debacle, err debate, and got flamed by a moderator. lol. With threads like these, who needs Jerry Springer. Stay Classy Salvation.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=249609&page=53
I can think of at least three distinct times I played against rock with GW survival.We're working on it, it's called Rock.
-Matt
My record was 2-0 each time.
Perhaps your list is different from the usual?
Oh no, I've done quite well, don't get me wrong. It's just most people only see the Rock results from SCG and then dismiss it as being weak to Survival.
Are you saying you beat them 2-0, or got defeated 2-0? Either way, I'm running a similar list, but with more Swords, and the possibility of MD Extirpates.
-Matt
So... Lightning Bolt > Force of Will?
"People like control because they think it shows that they're good Magic-players. Active decks, on the other hand, produce threats, and control decks must have the right answer to the right threat. If not, they're in trouble... while there are wrong answers, there are no wrong threats."
I don't think there's anyone that's been playing Magic competitively and hasn't heard at least a bastardization of this Dave Price quote. However, history has proven this wrong time and again. Most of the formats I've played have gravitated towards control as time goes on. Now, I'm an aggro player at heart, and I firmly believe that I can win swinging dudes into the red zone, if I'm built properly. But once a deck becomes a known quantity, anyone can build to beat it. Whether people run cards like Pithing Needle and Extirpate main or not has nothing to do with whether it's correct to main Pithing Needle or Extirpate.
Look at the DTB section. You have Merfolk, TES, Vial Goblins, Zoo, U/G Vine, Pro Bant, Dredge, Countertop and New Horizons. Needle is good against Fish, passable against TES, good against Goblins, dead against Zoo, great against U/G Vine, relatively dead against Pro Bant, relatively dead against Dredge, great against Countertop and very good against New Horizons. So of 9 DtBs, it's good against 5. Swords to Plowshares is good against Merfolk, dead against TES, good against Vial Goblins, good against Zoo, passable against U/G Vine, good against pro Bant, relatively dead against Dredge, relatively dead against Countertop and good against New Horizons. Of the 9 DtBs, it's good against 5. And there are quite a few decks that aren't in the DtB but are tier 1 or 1.5 that Needle is good against as well, Thopter, all Landstill variants, etc. I'm not arguing that Needle is as good or better than StP, it's not (in a broad sense, in some matchups obviously it's far superior), largely because it can be removed, allowing the offending permanent to be used again. But it is DEFINITELY good enough to maindeck. The fact that it's not is not a testament to the weakness of Pithing Needle, it's a testament to lazy deck building.
It' not what I meant. I should have been more specific. I know that many reactive decks are good. But in this case with Survival, the player who has to react to the card is usually screwed. It's in this case that threats > answers. I see it as almost impossible to argue why I should even bother being the one who has to answer the card immediately.
Needle has its uses in many matchups, but I still think it's mediocre against Survival specifically. It just gives you a small tempo boost because they have to spend some mana to get rid of it. If your deck isn't able to take full advantage of the tempo boost and win, you're probably still dead.
I like being in a position to react to Survival because when I Extirpate VV with triggers on the stack, my opponent has spent at least 5-6 mana and several turns setting up a play that I've negated for 1 mana and 1 card and I've eliminated his primary path to victory. Again, I think G/W is the hardest M/U for me as a Rock player because there are actually 3 wincons, VV, Iona and KotR/'goyf. VV is easy to answer, Iona is a little bit tougher and the KotR/'goyf plan is the hardest. Of course, my listing is a bit non-standard. But G/W is my worst M/U of the Survival decks and I'd still say I'm 40% preboard. U/G is very easy and G/B is favorable. The nice thing about the hate cards for VV Survival is that the decks they're weak against are weak against Survival, meaning that Needle, Extirpate and even Aven Mindcensor(he's been a star in my sideboard for Survival and TES) are generally good against Survival of the Fittest and against all the other decks that are good against Survival. So if you can dodge the "fair" decks early, those cards get better and better, as you're basically boarding for G1.
You're right, everyone's an idiot and doesn't realize that the sideboard exists in the game, that's why survival gets to win so much.
Actually, yes. At least in the US.
Forgive my bad English...
I find all you doom and gloomers hilarious.
goddamn you retards everyone is lazy and dumb just play Extirpate/Pithing Needle/Janky Nonsense maindeck or combo and wtfpwn survival yuo newbs survival is so easy to beat wtf I hate you
Here's some knowledge for you folks:
1) Everyone else is not a retard
2) Everyone else is not clueless about sideboarding
3) You almost certainly have no amazing tech
4) Your tech will not "doom" survival, you probably don't even have a >50 match win % vs it
Want to prove me wrong? Go ahead and use your super tech metagamed decks to destroy Survival at various tournaments. We're waiting for your maindeck Extirpate to save the format.
(Whips out a non-mid range deck)
Dredge? TES? Burn?.
Explain to me then why survival is not dominant in Europe. Do you really think that we play maindeck extirpate or needles ?
It is a pity that you guy ask for a ban that is a non sense everywhere else.
Forgive my bad English...
Um... what? I don't know what you're trying to say here.
(Awards FieryBalrog 22 lesbian points for general awesomeness. Redeemable, like always, as soon as I have excess lesbians in stock.)
Like seriously. The discussion isn't even whether to ban something. It's which piece to ban. If the duo were to be left alone, Two of the Five decks I keep assembled in my box would have the Vengevine Survival combo in it. And you can cry all you want. A piece WILL be banned. With this much outrage and controversy over it, Wizards will ban some piece of it whether you think they should or not. So in another couple weeks, GG, naysayers.
Maybe the Europeans don't play Survival as much, or can't play it well. Since you apparently want to get into a continent war.
Or, we could just stick to things that we know are true. That, for better and worse, the European metagame changes more slowly than the US one does. The US, generally, is quicker to pick up a new good deck when we should, but also quicker to abandon an old good one prematurely.
OR, we could just avoid regional cliches together and try to have an intelligent discussion based on merit, but judging by your last couple posts (Europe isn't "Everywhere else," for the record,) I'd say that's out.
I'm 4-0 combined against these in sanctioned matches. Just saying. I'm pretty sure I can pilot my GW list and go 2-1 against that gauntlet.
Survival beats those 3 decks. Especially TES. It just sucks too much.
Wait a minute, since when does survival beat combo?.
If there is such a thing as too much power, I have not discovered it.” —Volrath
Founding father of Team Moosebite, the team that really bites.
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