[Archetype] CounterTop

[neckfire]

so i recently got 9th at the scg open due to tie breaks i went x-1-1 for the day my only loss was to rb goblins i drew with new horizons with black in a tight 3 games. for reference here is the deck
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=35756

[gypsy]

so i recently got 9th at the scg open due to tie breaks i went x-1-1 for the day my only loss was to rb goblins i drew with new horizons with black in a tight 3 games. for reference here is the deck
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=35756

anything you would change in the deck? i want to play cb this weekend, leyline seems kind of weird and theres little to no storm combo here so i dont think it would be that good

[neckfire]

well il be honost..the leylines were there to help me in the top 8.I expected alot of ooze combo and storm combo.and leyline while costing me a card does protect me for at least a couple turns if it's in my opener.
it's mainly there to protect vs discard.i sided it in against the gate to protect my hand and it worked like a charm.
but if i were to replace it*which i would as it was a meta call*
id do -3 leyline -1 needle
+1 reb
+1 spell pierce
+1 dispell
+1 meta slot

the second needle in the board is useless it never came in.

[gypsy]

well il be honost..the leylines were there to help me in the top 8.I expected alot of ooze combo and storm combo.and leyline while costing me a card does protect me for at least a couple turns if it's in my opener.
it's mainly there to protect vs discard.i sided it in against the gate to protect my hand and it worked like a charm.
but if i were to replace it*which i would as it was a meta call*
id do -3 leyline -1 needle
+1 reb
+1 spell pierce
+1 dispell
+1 meta slot

the second needle in the board is useless it never came in.

gonna try your list, how would u sb vs the survival variants and other popular decks

thanks in advance for any helo u can give me

[The Duck!!]

hey guys,would like to get your opinions on this 2 decklists that I'm planning to use.

probant countertop list 1:

4 noble hierarch
4 tarmogoyf
3 rhox war monk
2 qasali pridemage
1 progenitus

4 force of will
4 daze
4 brainstorm
3 swords to plowshares
3 natural order
2 jace,the mind sculptor
1 elspeth, knight errant
3 counterbalance
3 sensei divining top

3 misty rainforest
2 flooded strand
2 windswept heath
3 tropical island
3 tundra
1 savannah
1 dryad arbor
2 island
1 forest
1 plains

probant countertop list 2:

4 noble hierarch
4 tarmogoyf
3 rhox war monk
2 qasali pridemage
1 progenitus

4 force of will
4 daze
4 brainstorm
3 natural order
3 swords to plowshares
2 jace,the mind sculptor
1 elspeth,knight errant
3 counterbalance
2 sensei divining top

3 misty rainforest
2 flooded strand
2 windswept heath
3 tropical island
3 tundra
1 savannah
1 horizons canopy
1 dryad arbor
2 island
1 forest
1 plains

the only difference of the 2 builds is that the 1st build, I run 3 tops. In the 2nd build, I removed 1 top and put in 1 canopy instead. which do you prefer? why? thanks a lot.

[bokepa]

I prefer list 1 eventhough i dont like neither of them.

In list one with only 3 CMC=3 and 6 CMC=4 your countertops will not be very strong. Jace and Elspeth provide a good late game but you will not be able to reach the lategame with only 3 removal and a bad lock. You should choose between planeswalkers and NO package and up your control elements.

In list two 1 random Horyzon Canopy will do nothing for you. If you run Canopy you should run Knight of the Reliquary with Crucible and other utlity lands.

And finally, I can understand playing with 3 CB, but top its always good at 4 copies. Especially with Jace and Fetchlands to get rid of extra copies.

I would pick list 1 and do:

-1 Jace
-1 Elspeth
+1 SDT
+1 Predict / CB / SToP / Vedalken Shakles / Oblivion Ring / Jitte / Trygon Predator

[The Duck!!]

I prefer list 1 eventhough i dont like neither of them.

In list one with only 3 CMC=3 and 6 CMC=4 your countertops will not be very strong. Jace and Elspeth provide a good late game but you will not be able to reach the lategame with only 3 removal and a bad lock. You should choose between planeswalkers and NO package and up your control elements.

In list two 1 random Horyzon Canopy will do nothing for you. If you run Canopy you should run Knight of the Reliquary with Crucible and other utlity lands.

And finally, I can understand playing with 3 CB, but top its always good at 4 copies. Especially with Jace and Fetchlands to get rid of extra copies.

I would pick list 1 and do:

-1 Jace
-1 Elspeth
+1 SDT
+1 Predict / CB / SToP / Vedalken Shakles / Oblivion Ring / Jitte / Trygon Predator

thanks for the comment. I think running 3 sdt is enough. I could probably make cb into 4. I'm actually thinking of putting 1 rafiq of the many mainboard. i'm planning of running list 1 and probably take out 1 island and put in rafiq. I think 18 lands + 4 hierarchs is pretty enough to run the deck. still gonna test it though. thanks again.

[neckfire]

gonna try your list, how would u sb vs the survival variants and other popular decks

thanks in advance for any helo u can give me

peacekeeper swaps for the firespouts
spell snare comes in over counterspell unless you are on the play
depending on the varient you can bring in reb or spell pierce
hibernation is really good. i usually take out a clique and a goyf as they dont block well and you rarely win via aggro post board.
it depends on the build and if you think they have a tool box against you or a more definite sideboard.

if your vs ooze remember your pithing needles name necrotic ooze so they can't combo out then drop a peacekeeper..save your counterspells to protect it at all cost.

in game 1 dont be afraid to spout away mana dorks.especially vs ooze as they keep mana light hands.spouting away 1 noble or a birds is worth it in my opinion.jace bounce your dork works well also.
im sure you noticed i dont bring in my gy hate vs non ooze deck's well the reason being is i dont like it.
you can do it if you wish go 0 goyf post board. the clique is valued more in my opinion bc of its cipt it has.
hope that helps if you have any more question's let me know.

[neckfire]

vs merfolk i found myself doing this plan
-1 spout
-1 counterbalance
-1 top
-1 clique
+3 peacekeeper
+1 spell pierce

the idea is you have 5 definite hate trump cards post board.play to whichever one you draw. between card drawing and your trump cards merfolk really isnt that hard of a match.I know that's alot to boast but i havent been beaten by it yet in the 3 times iv faced it in tournament play.
in richmond i faced the hardest version for this deck Uw fish.Not only is he just fish so he trumps blue non aggro decks he has swords for the peacekeeper.

[Catitas]

Does anyone have Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa report from gp columbus or the decklist?

[Piceli89]

Dear Countertop players,

My most sincere compliments for returning back into the scene and fill top8s with your boring, frustrating presence.

Yours,
Legacy metagame

[Valtrix]

Does anyone have Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa report from gp columbus or the decklist?

I looked for the report and list, but for some reason it seems to have been deleted from Channel Fireball where it was originally. I did go back through the thread to see if his list was posted either, but unfortunately I didn't find it. However, I did find Martell's list, which took 2nd place in the tournament and is very similar to PV's except for perhaps the sideboard:

4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
22 lands

4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
6 creatures

4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
3 Counterspell
3 Firespout
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
32 other spells

Sideboard
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Firespout
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Hydroblast
3 Krosan Grip
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Meddling Mage
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spell Pierce

[DragoFireheart]

Dear Countertop players,

My most sincere compliments for returning back into the scene and fill top8s with your boring, frustrating presence.

Yours,
Legacy metagame

Don't fret too much: many are still tinkering with Vengevine to see if it can be competitive without SotF.

[Piceli89]

Don't fret too much: many are still tinkering with Vengevine to see if it can be competitive without SotF.

Vengevine alone is easily solvable, the problem was when a Survival resolved and you knew you had to run and they tutored for every single counter-hate. The new Intuition-based lists are going to be much less consistent, just as the new ANT configurations.

[DragoFireheart]

Vengevine alone is easily solvable, the problem was when a Survival resolved and you knew you had to run and they tutored for every single counter-hate. The new Intuition-based lists are going to be much less consistent, just as the new ANT configurations.

Post-game 1 yes, but then they tend to bring in stuff to replace the Vengeine with like Natural Order.

[Barbwire]

Hey guys, been a viewer of the site for awhile now and finally registered to make a post. I've been reading this thread for awhile and I've seen alot of post about issues with fast aggro or SotF (banned now so there is no issue now, though I didn't have to much of one to begin with.) I built my Countertop Thopter a few months ago but it doesnt really match anything being thrown around on the forum, It's won a few misc legacy tournaments against zoo (burn pkg,equip pkg, and the recent build that took Japan.) survival, stacks, burn, MBC, and RB Gobs without to many issues, usually stabalizing around 6 life. Well here's my current build and I'd like to see what everybody thinks about it and get some critiques on bettering it, thanks

4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Brainstorm
1x Pithing Needle
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Counterbalance
1x Sword of the Meek
2x Thopter Foundry
2x Counterspell
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Humility
3x Wrath of God
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Force of Will
4x Tundra
4x Island
3x Plains
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
3x Wasteland
1x Ancient Den
1x Seat of Synod
1x Academy Ruins

Sideboard: (Varies on where im playing but this is usual setup)
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Crucible of Worlds
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Grindstone
2x Painter's Servant
3x Echoing Truth
3x Path to Exile

I've found that tutoring for a 1-4cc enchant/artifact for the trigger on CB works very well, I usually can always find what I need and have the CBT combo down by T3 90% of the time. But anyways, I'd like to see what everyone else thinks of my build, thanks again.
-Sean

[Hanni]

Vengevine alone is easily solvable, the problem was when a Survival resolved and you knew you had to run and they tutored for every single counter-hate. The new Intuition-based lists are going to be much less consistent, just as the new ANT configurations.

Talking about Vengevine in this thread seems a little premature right now, but I disagree with you. U/G/b Vengevine w/ Intuition/Entomb is far more broken than the Survival version, and once people realize this, you have another (6?) more months of Vengevine until the next banned/restricted announcement. Seriously.

[Antonius]

Have any of the Trinket Mage proponents ever considered running Cursed Scroll as a tutor target? I was testing Merfolk recently and locked down by it pretty hard.

[The Treefolk Master]

Adam Prosak was a huge fan of it in his UW Countertop decks. He ran 1 in the sideboard.

[keys]

Talking about Vengevine in this thread seems a little premature right now, but I disagree with you. U/G/b Vengevine w/ Intuition/Entomb is far more broken than the Survival version, and once people realize this, you have another (6?) more months of Vengevine until the next banned/restricted announcement. Seriously.

Without Survival, you can't just tutor up a Shriekmaw to kill my Peacekeeper, or a Pridemage to destroy my Tormod's Crypt. Our hate will actually be reliable now that Vengevine players don't also have a toolbox of answers.

These Intuition/Buried Alive Vengevine decks are more of a one-trick pony.