[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Masamune]

....

Hey dude, u're wrong. Is better run Blood moons than take then off and run more mountains!
Furthermore Thorn allows you to play Pyrokinesis maindeck. Ok, but you forgot we can hold on Forces and Dazes whith 3sphere... also Thorn is bad... can u test ur deck in some event in future soon? Can u report here after handle with multiple meta? :\

My current list:

Mainboard:
Creatures (20):
2 Arc-Slogger
2 Kazuul
4 Gathan Raiders
1 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Others (22):
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
4 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands (18):
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

SB:

4 Kinesis
4 Bombs
2 Tormods
3 Pithing
2 Anarch

Listen jin IMO Jitte + Arc + Kazuul + Lord + Bombs and Kinesis is enough to handle with aggro decks and the main part of the deck was not modified too much ^^

[Tacosnape]

I find it hilarious that a deck with virtually no relevance in the Legacy metagame AND that is famous for the thread being cluttered with complete idiocy has managed a full page of long, constructive, well-thought out (even when wrong) posts, something that most other threads struggle to ever do.

I'll pretty much say what Ozymandias says. If the metagame's not ripe for Dragon Stompy, you don't play the deck.

Also, in the Trinisphere-versus-Thorn discussion, which shouldn't even -be- a discussion, it should be mentioned that Trinisphere is virtually one-sided for Dragon Stompy, where Thorn isn't as much so.

[Masamune]

I'll pretty much say what Ozymandias says. If the metagame's not ripe for Dragon Stompy, you don't play the deck.

Ok, but I considered the meta maybe 75% control/combo and the remainder aggro. Most of the deck still has lockpieces

[jin]

Hey dude, u're wrong. Is better run Blood moons than take then off and run more mountains!
Furthermore Thorn allows you to play Pyrokinesis maindeck. Ok, but you forgot we can hold on Forces and Dazes whith 3sphere... also Thorn is bad... can u test ur deck in some event in future soon? Can u report here after handle with multiple meta? :\

Listen jin IMO Jitte + Arc + Kazuul + Lord + Bombs and Kinesis is enough to handle with aggro decks and the main part of the deck was not modified too much ^^

"You are wrong" is NOT an argument for Blood Moon or Trinisphere. I forgot Thorn of Amethyst doesn't affect Force or Daze... wait... it does. Honestly, I don't care about Force or Daze. Daze can be paid for since there is acceleration in Dragon. Force is card advantage for us which some of you are whining about. If they were going to Force something, it would have been your Trinisphere or my Chalice. They would consider not Forcing Thorn, but that's ok with me too.

I would like to test my deck in some event in the future, but since many are discrediting my list as not viable at all, I'm thinking I'll just stick with TES. I have reported that I can handle Goblins/Fish and Jank which are usually bad match ups for Dragon Stompy because of their solid manabase.

Yes I agree they can handle aggro. I personally think Bomb, Kinesis, kavu/lord is enough, but if you want to play more, go crazy.

I find it hilarious that a deck with virtually no relevance in the Legacy metagame AND that is famous for the thread being cluttered with complete idiocy has managed a full page of long, constructive, well-thought out (even when wrong) posts, something that most other threads struggle to ever do.

I'll pretty much say what Ozymandias says. If the metagame's not ripe for Dragon Stompy, you don't play the deck.

Also, in the Trinisphere-versus-Thorn discussion, which shouldn't even -be- a discussion, it should be mentioned that Trinisphere is virtually one-sided for Dragon Stompy, where Thorn isn't as much so.

Haha, I don't know whether I should thank you for your reply or be annoyed at it. Again, "you are wrong" is not an argument. Yes, I thought about the list for awhile...

You do, however, bring up a good point that neither Ozymandias nor any of the other people that have confronted me about this topic has mentioned and that is symmetry in the lock pieces. The problem I faced before when playing Dragon was that Trinisphere's effect differs from deck to deck. Sometimes, it is like you said asymmetrical and that's when it's awesome. Other times, it can be manipulated so that it has no effect on the opponent either. What then? You have three of them in your deck and you can't pitch any of them to Chrome Mox (which now costs 3 mana...)

You end up holding onto your precious Arc-Sloggers and Trinispheres and Blood Moons. I guess there is one benefit to all of this. You all get to keep those three close to your heart.

Anyway, this will probably be my last post as there is no other argument on this thread except that I'm wrong (which is still not a valid argument btw...). Sorry if my post doesn't seem very coherent or cohesive, I'm getting tired of reading arguments that have nothing to do with the topic and replying people that haven't read my arguments already but want to take a stab at my idea. I'd like to thank everyone who provided constructive criticism and perspective. This is what I needed.

[Ozymandias]

What are the decks that trinisphere works against?

Goblins: Only if they get in there with a Vial before you drop sphere. Otherwise, they have to choose between running threats out and running answers out--answers which they might not even be able to tutor for/use effectively.
Merfolk: Only if they get in there with Vial before you drop sphere. Otherwise, you blank their countermagic and since they cheat on U counts, can often stick a LoA/Coralhelm in Hand
Storm: Obviously Nuts.
Vengevine: Forces them to get to at least 6 mana before they can recur vines, which is more than enough time to at least try fighting back with your dudes.
Control decks: Because they aqll cheat on land counts, trinisphere can keep them from brainstorming
Dredge: effectively forces them to slow-dredge, buying you time.

Dark Horizons is about the only deck that trini is bad against, and so in that MU you have Moons.

[Masamune]

It seems that guy was angry LOL
I agree Ozymandias... I'll play with that list I shared here in weekend and I'll report when I can

[Tivon]

snip]

I'm not 100% sure on where to begin exactly, because apparantly a meandering discourse from multiple individuals isn't exactly what you were looking for, so I will try to Structure it as best as I can.

The Value of Trinisphere: (I am aware you will know this for the most part, but I feel a more structured analysis of the card will hopefully provide greater insight as to why it is that the rest of us so heavily support it)

Trinisphere is a valuable card for many reasons in Dragon stompy. The synergy it provides relative to the cmc of the rest of the deck allows for it to be virtually one sided. This is largely the same reason that we run chalice. Legacy is also a format of undercosted overpowered cards - in short, the best spells that cost between zero and three mana.

Because all of our opponents are generally going to be running cards that cost less than three mana, with trinisphere in play, we generate tempo by nature of slowing down our opponents tempo and not being affected by the effect of trinisphere. It is also important to note that Trinisphere affects all cards with a cmc < 3. The proposed alternative (thorn) also affects most spells, however, it doesn't affect creatures (which are often < 3) makes our own non creature spells cost more, and can allow for an opponent to have a relatively faster start than would a thorn. With trinisphere down, assuming a relatively standard list, there are about 8 cards, maybe 10 which will be affected mainboard (chrome mox, chalice, and possibly jitte). Thorn however, affects almost double the amount of our own spells (in your deck). It has less synergy with our deck, and does marginally less damage to our opponents deck.

Yes, there are going to be matches where Trinisphere will not be as strong. These matches however, are also typically matches where side board cards truly shine. It makes figuring out which cards to side out that much easier. Depending on play vs draw, and a variety of other factors, I have often found myself only having trinisphere sided out for one game in most matches - if I do so at all.

On Manabase:
Landing two and three drop threats early and regularly is one of the Core features of the deck. These threats can be prison components and creatures - but they both typically cost three or more (two for the much loved chalice @ 1 on turn 1). In order to facilitate this, itis extremely important to maximize the likliehood of a 2 mana land in the opening hand. I can't remember where I read it (I think it was a dredge thread or something) and ideally we would have 13 or something like that, but Crystal Vein sucks, so we are stuck with a maximum of 8 two mana lands. They are integral to the strategy of the deck - regardless of being consistent or hellbent in approach - so running less will always be less than ideal. I know that you try to adress this with help from lotus petal, I just am not sold on the viability of lotus petal in this deck.

Pyrokinesis in the Main:
I know you aren't running much other removal, but I honestly feel that this is much better as a sideboard card. I Have run 4 in my sideboard for as long as I can remember, and fully appreciate the strength of the card in certain matchups, however I feel that there are stronger mainboard cards which can be played.

On equipment:

Every once in a while a creature will get plowed in response to equip - but not always. Sometimes they are cut off from their removal color by moon, sometimes they are cut off from their removal by chalice or trini. The equipment does however make your little 2/2 beatsticks turn into a respectable clock or evasive beater. The three main options are basically Jitte, SoFaI, SoLaS. There are inherent strengths and weaknesses in each, which I'm sure most of us are aware of. I personally run Jitte now, despite the conflict with chalice at 2 and legendary status as It has only come up for me twice in games. If I were to run something else it would probably be SoLaS - due to pro white and not getting the extra draw effect. I have had numerous occasions where drawing a card and loosing hellbent would loose me the game - wheras optionally returning a creature or just accumulating counters a la jitte does not. I personally run between 21 and 23 creatures - and almost always have a creature to equip it to. In your build you could easily support equipment - and I personally believe you should if you choose to continue with your current pursuit.

On Seething Song:
Explosive, allows broken plays. Also, not always a bad topdeck. It is almost always at least castable, and can be insanly broken when cast with a hellbent rakdos active. I personally feel that this card is necessary - a necessary evil even - but can understand that it is a personal preference. I just feel that the times where it provides the broken starts and broken midgame plays weigh more heavily that the times where it is a bad topdeck.

Arc-Slogger:

Beatstick, removal, huge ass, huge casting cost. I personally feel that Slogger is awesome. I run him, but I hate him at the same time. I have lost a few games to one of these guys getting stuck in my hand, I've won a few by landing them first turn, or landing multiples. Despite the power of 4, he is an exceptional clock. If your opponent is getting down too many creatures, yeah, you should shock them. If your opponent has a problem creature, you should shock it. But if you have the ability to end the game by shocking your opponent its usually the right play. More often than not your opponent will either chump block or take the damage. There are also plenty of ways to cast it. I usually get up to around 5 mana in a game before its over. I also usually see a chrome mox or a gathan raiders. Early game, he usually sees the pitch if I have lots of hellbent in hand. Otherwise I usually hold onto him knowing he can end the game quickly once he lands. It should also be noted that I don't run all 4. I love seeing him once, but not in multiples.

I didn't really get to everything I wanted to get to or get a chance to go in depth as I really would have liked, but I do have some finals to study for - so I must depart for a little bit.

I think I understand your arguments for the most part, and I've considered some of the ideas before. However testing indicated that many of the choices which you have proposed proved to be suboptimal.

/rambling

[mercs]

Can u report here after handle with multiple meta?

I'm liking this idea the most out of the last 5 dozen posts lol :P

How about we tone the discussions down a bit and start t8ing some more! I've only been active in magic for 4 months this year (early in the year and recently), but I was still able to hit a 1st and 3rd place in big tournaments, so don't be afraid to pull the trigger and bust out those stompy decks guys.

In the end, it doesn't matter too much whether you believe the hellbent version or the consistency version is better or not. Let's have our results start doing the talking. Even though I'm loving how active this strand is recently, I noticed in the UW tempo strand, the get a lot of reports brought in, and that deck exploded into a huge contender. If we keep doing t8's, maybe DS can start gaining steam and making noise.

[jin]

I'm not 100% sure on where to begin exactly, because apparantly a meandering discourse from multiple individuals isn't exactly what you were looking for, so I will try to Structure it as best as I can.

The Value of Trinisphere: (I am aware you will know this for the most part, but I feel a more structured analysis of the card will hopefully provide greater insight as to why it is that the rest of us so heavily support it)

Trinisphere is a valuable card for many reasons in Dragon stompy. The synergy it provides relative to the cmc of the rest of the deck allows for it to be virtually one sided. This is largely the same reason that we run chalice. Legacy is also a format of undercosted overpowered cards - in short, the best spells that cost between zero and three mana.

Because all of our opponents are generally going to be running cards that cost less than three mana, with trinisphere in play, we generate tempo by nature of slowing down our opponents tempo and not being affected by the effect of trinisphere. It is also important to note that Trinisphere affects all cards with a cmc < 3. The proposed alternative (thorn) also affects most spells, however, it doesn't affect creatures (which are often < 3) makes our own non creature spells cost more, and can allow for an opponent to have a relatively faster start than would a thorn. With trinisphere down, assuming a relatively standard list, there are about 8 cards, maybe 10 which will be affected mainboard (chrome mox, chalice, and possibly jitte). Thorn however, affects almost double the amount of our own spells (in your deck). It has less synergy with our deck, and does marginally less damage to our opponents deck.

Yes, there are going to be matches where Trinisphere will not be as strong. These matches however, are also typically matches where side board cards truly shine. It makes figuring out which cards to side out that much easier. Depending on play vs draw, and a variety of other factors, I have often found myself only having trinisphere sided out for one game in most matches - if I do so at all.

On Manabase:
Landing two and three drop threats early and regularly is one of the Core features of the deck. These threats can be prison components and creatures - but they both typically cost three or more (two for the much loved chalice @ 1 on turn 1). In order to facilitate this, itis extremely important to maximize the likliehood of a 2 mana land in the opening hand. I can't remember where I read it (I think it was a dredge thread or something) and ideally we would have 13 or something like that, but Crystal Vein sucks, so we are stuck with a maximum of 8 two mana lands. They are integral to the strategy of the deck - regardless of being consistent or hellbent in approach - so running less will always be less than ideal. I know that you try to adress this with help from lotus petal, I just am not sold on the viability of lotus petal in this deck.

Pyrokinesis in the Main:
I know you aren't running much other removal, but I honestly feel that this is much better as a sideboard card. I Have run 4 in my sideboard for as long as I can remember, and fully appreciate the strength of the card in certain matchups, however I feel that there are stronger mainboard cards which can be played.

On equipment:

Every once in a while a creature will get plowed in response to equip - but not always. Sometimes they are cut off from their removal color by moon, sometimes they are cut off from their removal by chalice or trini. The equipment does however make your little 2/2 beatsticks turn into a respectable clock or evasive beater. The three main options are basically Jitte, SoFaI, SoLaS. There are inherent strengths and weaknesses in each, which I'm sure most of us are aware of. I personally run Jitte now, despite the conflict with chalice at 2 and legendary status as It has only come up for me twice in games. If I were to run something else it would probably be SoLaS - due to pro white and not getting the extra draw effect. I have had numerous occasions where drawing a card and loosing hellbent would loose me the game - wheras optionally returning a creature or just accumulating counters a la jitte does not. I personally run between 21 and 23 creatures - and almost always have a creature to equip it to. In your build you could easily support equipment - and I personally believe you should if you choose to continue with your current pursuit.

On Seething Song:
Explosive, allows broken plays. Also, not always a bad topdeck. It is almost always at least castable, and can be insanly broken when cast with a hellbent rakdos active. I personally feel that this card is necessary - a necessary evil even - but can understand that it is a personal preference. I just feel that the times where it provides the broken starts and broken midgame plays weigh more heavily that the times where it is a bad topdeck.

Arc-Slogger:

Beatstick, removal, huge ass, huge casting cost. I personally feel that Slogger is awesome. I run him, but I hate him at the same time. I have lost a few games to one of these guys getting stuck in my hand, I've won a few by landing them first turn, or landing multiples. Despite the power of 4, he is an exceptional clock. If your opponent is getting down too many creatures, yeah, you should shock them. If your opponent has a problem creature, you should shock it. But if you have the ability to end the game by shocking your opponent its usually the right play. More often than not your opponent will either chump block or take the damage. There are also plenty of ways to cast it. I usually get up to around 5 mana in a game before its over. I also usually see a chrome mox or a gathan raiders. Early game, he usually sees the pitch if I have lots of hellbent in hand. Otherwise I usually hold onto him knowing he can end the game quickly once he lands. It should also be noted that I don't run all 4. I love seeing him once, but not in multiples.

I didn't really get to everything I wanted to get to or get a chance to go in depth as I really would have liked, but I do have some finals to study for - so I must depart for a little bit.

I think I understand your arguments for the most part, and I've considered some of the ideas before. However testing indicated that many of the choices which you have proposed proved to be suboptimal.

/rambling

Again, I felt it was polite to reply.

Thank you, some valid arguments. Well, no, Mercs has given me perspective on the subcategorization of Dragon as well as some good anti-Vengevine plans. 0dysseus raised some good questions about Dragon Stompy and you presented some pretty strong arguments about Equipment, Arc-Slogger and Seething Song. Although I don't agree that the build I went for is sub-optimal, I will concede that equipments have their strengths in a build that has this many creatures. I would love to see your list. I'm curious to see how you fit 20 something creatures, acceleration, lock pieces and removal into one deck.

Don't you find that you sideboard in your Pyrokinesis a lot? Maybe your equipment can handle it.

[Tivon]

My current list (if I can recall what I currently have sleeved up) is as follows

10 mountain
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 chrome mox
4 seething song
4 simian spirit guide
4 magus of the moon
4 rakdos pit dragon
4 gathan raiders
3 Taurean Mauler
2 Arc Slogger
1 Akroma, angel of Fury (either going to be slogger #3 or Mauler #4 or possibly Kargan dragonlord with a few other changes to get at least 2)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's

SB
4 Tormods Crypt
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 shattering spree

the last seven slots are essentially meta slots for me and change depending on what I'm expecting to see in the meta. I've also run boil, anarchy, additional gravehate, pyroblast, flametongue kavu, and Bloodmoon and trinisphere #4

I predominantly just side in pyrokinesis for tribal matchups though I sometimes side it in on a whim against other decks, though I have found recently that ratchet bomb usually goes in for randoms more regularly.

Still trying to figure out what I want to do with that last creature slot (currently the Red Akroma)in the main... She's just not doing it for me anymore

[ForlornEgoist]

In my experience, equipment is actually a little more universal in use, and sometimes lets you offset the necessity for MD removal. I'm unfamiliar with Tivon's build, but mine looks like such:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Seething Song

3 Blood Moon

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
2 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
2 Arc Slogger

I've tested the other 3 equipment pieces, and overall felt like they provided little benefit to the deck.

Sword of Light and Shadow - The Pro-White is most definitely useful in that it shields you from StP/PtE. Also, the life gain helps us offset damage from Tomb. The recursion ability, however, is negligble since our creatures are on average bigger than our opponents.

Sword of Fire and Ice - The static +2/+2 keeps you above burn, so Pro-Red is useless; Pro-Blue only shields you from Jace, which you should be ramming at as a first priority with your creatures. The shock effect is nice, but the card draw is counterintuitive to our 8 main beaters.

Sword of Body and Mind - The Pro-Green is useless as the biggest Goyf gets against us is 4/5. Pro-Blue, again, nice for Jace. The milling effect helps out Survival/Dredge/Aggro Loam/Land/Reanimator, so that ability actually hurts us. The 2/2 token is actually useful as a blocker, but this benefit is again made moot by the aforementioned ability.

Overall, the only Sword I ever actually used was the SoLS, the reason for which being it gave me Pro-White (which was useful at the time when Bant was rampant in my meta).

Jitte, however, does everything we need it to: offset damage from Tomb, remove minor threats, and as a bonus it even provides us with pumps to escape burn range or deal extra damage. While the Swords are nice for their Static buff (which I especially appreciated on RPD), 1 ability on SoLS is unnecessary, and 1 ability on both SoFI and SoBM can actually hurt us.

Forlorn Egoist

[jin]

My current list (if I can recall what I currently have sleeved up) is as follows

10 mountain
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 chrome mox
4 seething song
4 simian spirit guide
4 magus of the moon
4 rakdos pit dragon
4 gathan raiders
3 Taurean Mauler
2 Arc Slogger
1 Akroma, angel of Fury (either going to be slogger #3 or Mauler #4 or possibly Kargan dragonlord with a few other changes to get at least 2)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's

SB
4 Tormods Crypt
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 shattering spree

the last seven slots are essentially meta slots for me and change depending on what I'm expecting to see in the meta. I've also run boil, anarchy, additional gravehate, pyroblast, flametongue kavu, and Bloodmoon and trinisphere #4

I predominantly just side in pyrokinesis for tribal matchups though I sometimes side it in on a whim against other decks, though I have found recently that ratchet bomb usually goes in for randoms more regularly.

Still trying to figure out what I want to do with that last creature slot (currently the Red Akroma)in the main... She's just not doing it for me anymore

LOL, your list looks exactly the same as my list from when I was playing the more explosive list. I loved morphing in Akroma and swinging. With my teammates, we have a joke where I shout out "it's morphing time" (an allusion to the Power Rangers). It took a lot of will power for me to cut her since she made morphing more interesting instead of... "oh another Gathan Raider..." In my sideboard, I also ran Trinisphere #4 and Akroma #2 for the combo and Landstill match ups respectively. Ratchet Bomb is good but it's not red which I find is necessary sometimes to pitch to Chrome Mox.

[sancho]

Hi everybody

I'm a first time poster here but I've been following the thread for a while and playing Dragon Stompy for a bit over a year. I'm by no means an expert and I've mostly played a fairly stock standard list. I've been tinkering for the last few weeks with some fairly drastic changes to the build. I'm completely unconvinced that the deck is actually any good, but I'm seeing a few positives. Maybe some of you will see something you like and be able to work with it and improve it.

My current build:

4 Goblin Welder
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Razormane Masticore
2 Steel Hellkite

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Lotus Petal
4 Grim Monolith

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
1 Mountain

Sideboard:
1 Swamp
4 Engineered Plague
3 Perish
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle

So.. some of my thought process for the changes (if you are still bothering to read at this stage after seeing the list!)

The addition of Welder is the biggest change and obviously influenced a lot of the rest of the deck. I decided to add him to provide a bit of extra gas against control decks, which I found were just dominating me if they could deal with my initial onslaught of threats. It obviously doesn't play nice with Chalice at 1, but it is fairly easy to get into play and get active. It dies to every single piece of removal that is pointed at it, but that means the removal is not used on a Magus or a Golem or a Razormane.

The Lodestone Golem and Razormane Masticore and in there over Rakdos Pit Dragon and Arc-Slogger for a couple reasons - because they are much easier on the mana and because they are recurrable by Welder. The Masticore is a beast in aggro matchups obviously and I'm not missing Arc-Slogger at all. The Golem is a nice extra piece of disruption and a solid beatstick. Not as explosive as the Dragon though obviously. The nice thing about cutting the Dragon is that Hellbent isn't really much of a concern. It's obviously a bonus to have it for Gathan Raiders, but not a must.

The Hellkites are probably just a bit too cute. I have not cast them too often, and in fact they've usually come into play via Welder after being discarded to Raiders or Masticore.

The Ratchet Bombs are very solid against tribal and zoo, and a nice catch-all. Blood Moons could be squeezed in here instead I guess. Having only the 4 Magus is probably not ideal.

I quite like the addition of black. It offers some amazing options from the sideboard and hasn't seemed to jank up the mana too bad. Lotus Petal over SSG was a nice way to make the black mana more reliable. One nice thing about the reduction in red mana costs was the ability to add Grim Monolith in the place of Seething Song (I have always hated this card!). It's nice Welder fodder too :)

So anyway, that's my pet project for the moment. Feel free to tell me I'm an idiot!

[ForlornEgoist]

There are plenty of things to comment on, but my main issue is the black splash on the SB.

DS has an incredibly fragil manabase. The general accepted manabase is:


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10-11 Mountain

The reason Saito was able to splash black is because Merfolk is a little bit more forgiving with their manabases:


4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
12 Islands

With their manabase, they can add 6 fetches, 4 on-color Duals, and still have basics to shield them from nobasic hate. We, however, don't have that luxury.

If you want to be able to splash a color, here is what you'd have to do:


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
6-8 Fetches
3-4 Badlands
1-2 basics

The problem with either this land set-up or yours is that you leave yourself open heavily to not only your opponents hate, but your own Moon effects which are a huge power portion of the deck. The Great Furnaces are useful to your Artifact-centered build, but the Moon effects are anti-synergetic to your deck, so you would need to remove them thus eliminating one of the key strengths of Dragon Stompy.

I also question the E. Plague. Why?

E. Plague is essentially dead in the current meta.

Elves--> No-one plays Elves, but there are 3 main builds of elves: Aggro, NO, and Combo. We're already bigger than all of the creatures in the aggro-build, and our 12+ lock pieces shut off the combo build, so NO is our only problem which we can't deal with even post-board.

Slivers--> Has lost much favor and is rarely seen anymore. However, Slivers (Meathook variant) runs countermagic, multiple Sliver Lords, and when all else fails, Harmonic Sliver which by many Sliver players including myself has become pretty much a 2-3 MD slot.

Merfolks--> They run at a bare minimum 12 lords. 1-2 E. Plagues only stalls them. It won't shut them down, or even kill any of their creatures.

Goblins--> The only deck E. Plague actually works on as they typically only run 1 lord, with a few more builds starting to run 2.

Zoo--> Why would you side in E. Plague against Zoo? They have burn, KotR, Goyf, Finx, etc. You have bigger problems than Pridemage/Nacatl.

Misc. Jank (Zomb/Birds/Soldiers/etc.)--> The other tribes really only have 1 lord, and while Zombies has at least 4, no-one plays it because they have no card advantage and their protection (kill spells/hand disruption) pales in comparison to countermagic.

Survival--> Repeat argument from Zoo, altering card names.

Thopter--> Yes, you can name Thopters. However, you can also just as easily solve the problem with a more universal answer to most decks like GY hate.


I could go on and on, but overall E. Plague is a subpar choice for the deck. You're better of with burn or mass-removal. Here are some suggestions:


Pyrokinesis
Flametongue Kavu
Pyroclasm
Firespout
Volcanic Fallout
Powder Keg
Ratchet Bomb

All of these deal with the real problem this deck has, which is being swarmed by a bunch of little guys. More importantly, they also don't require you to splash a color, and thereby weaking your deck for a static ability that in the long run does nothing.


Also, the Steel Hellkite is nice since you can Weld him into play, but it seems to me that in the event you don't have Welder it's doubtful you can cast him. Perhaps consider Covetous Dragon as he replaces RPD nicely in your deck and he's a big beater.

Forlorn Egoist

[Masamune]

...

Looks like a "welderRedStacker" than a CDS...
I see your point but what you can do IMO is screw the opp using Welder... personally, I prefer avoid it because CoTV and Trini screw us
About S. Hellkite: make a test with WurmCoil Engine. Welder can produce token with it and lifelink is good, avoiding a quick death.
I still prefer my current list but your list as well as jin's list must to be tested and compare all results

[Masamune]

Some questions to someone who understands the subject:
1) If I play any Moon effect against DarkDephts deck, when the land comes into play,the ten ice counters comes too or not? If not, for exemple: I have in table Magus of the Moon. Opp plays DD land and kill my creature with any removal like Innocent Blood. Marit Lage comes out? O.o"
2) What happens when I control a Trinisphere and my opp want to pay alternative manacost like flashback? Against dredge decks opp must to pay 3 mana to resolve simple flashback spell like Dredge Return?

[ForlornEgoist]

1) If I play any Moon effect against DarkDephts deck, when the land comes into play,the ten ice counters comes too or not? If not, for exemple: I have in table Magus of the Moon. Opp plays DD land and kill my creature with any removal like Innocent Blood. Marit Lage comes out? O.o"

In regards to lands and Moon effects, all CIP abilities still trigger. So, Dark Depths CIP with 10 ice counters on it. Moon effect then changes it to a nonbasic, however the 10 ice counters remain on the card. So if they kill your Moon effect they still have to remove the counters to get Marit Lage.

2) What happens when I control a Trinisphere and my opp want to pay alternative manacost like flashback? Against dredge decks opp must to pay 3 mana to resolve simple flashback spell like Dredge Return?

Trinisphere is the last card that get's checked for casting costs, alternative or not. So in regards to Dread Return, after all other cards have been checked to see how they affect the flashback cost, then Trinisphere checks to see if the card's casting cost is under 3 mana. So yes, 3sphere would make DR cost 3 in addition to the sacrifice cost.

That's part of the reason why 3Sphere is such an annoying card for decks packing counters because we now make them pay 1 extra for that Daze and they have to choose between either hardcasting a Force of Will or paying 3 and pitching a card.

Forlorn Egoist

[Masamune]

1) I read yesterday in the rules of mws...(actually I do not really remember it well for sure): "changing types and subtypes affect all abilities saying when comes into play"... by the way I believe in you
2) Ok, understood...so...if opp have lands like Tendo Ice Bridge with counters or other stuff like Fungal Reaches when Moons comes turning into mountains, the counters still stay there right?

[AlterEgo]

1) I read yesterday in the rules of mws...(actually I do not really remember it well for sure): "changing types and subtypes affect all abilities saying when comes into play"... by the way I believe in you
2) Ok, understood...so...if opp have lands like Tendo Ice Bridge with counters or other stuff like Fungal Reaches when Moons comes turning into mountains, the counters still stay there right?

1) Giving a basic landtype to a land clears all of that lands abilities, unless it is given the type "in addition to its other types" (like Urborg ToY does). Moons sort of "overwrite" the lands' textboxes with "T: Add R".

2) Right. The Bridge will even enter the battlefield WITH the counter, if Moon is already in effect. This is because it has a replacement effect, that changes how it enters - those effects are applied directly before the modified event actually happens. In that moment Blood Moon doesn't influence it yet, because it's still in your hand (or wherever).

[Masamune]

Is it a problem Dark Dephts deck?? :(
Some someone here have tested against it?