Survival of the Fittest

[frenchy-man]

beaten by Elfball in the finals

Sorry but some pro players here believe that elfball is not a good deck. Therefore according to those pro players your argument is not acceptable.

Oh, and yes, ban survival. Then we'll get again this healthy metagame trusted by merfolks. Nice !

[Valdez]

Sorry but some pro players here believe that elfball is not a good deck. Therefore according to those pro players your argument is not acceptable.

Elf Ball is like french military history, they may have been colose to winnintg some battles, but they've never won a war.

[frenchy-man]

Elf Ball is like french military history, they may have been colose to winnintg some battles, but they've never won a war.

Totally wrong. Check out French history.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Sorry but some pro players here believe that elfball is not a good deck. Therefore according to those pro players your argument is not acceptable.

Oh, and yes, ban survival. Then we'll get again this healthy metagame trusted by merfolks. Nice !

I sense sarcasm!!! Awesome, oh yeah check the latest French metagame results Survival is over there too doing big things. Elfball has never done anything worth talking about in America to the best of my knowledge. I can't see anyone arguing it is a tier 1 or 2 deck and being serious, so why would someone trying to win play a 3rd tier combo deck? People play it here, but it's scrub tier. So according to you France > America at Legacy because Survival wasn't winning big events, now it is. Meanwhile several decks that seem to put up pretty continual results over there are considered scrub tier over here which makes me wonder what is going on over their when the rest of Europe seems to be pimping ANT and TES and France is placing elf decks and WR aggro. Not that I would particularly call you on it if you didn't act like France knew something the rest of the world didn't. At least on Survival we can now see that isn't entirely the case. Also as the the original comment you quoted I'd have to say most of America DOESN'T AGREE WITH BANNING SURVIVAL on the 20th, at least as of 2-3 weeks ago the poll showed that people were almost 4 to 1 against banning anything on the 20th.

[frenchy-man]

I sense sarcasm!!! Awesome, oh yeah check the latest French metagame results Survival is over there too doing big things. Elfball has never done anything worth talking about in America to the best of my knowledge. I can't see anyone arguing it is a tier 1 or 2 deck and being serious, so why would someone trying to win play a 3rd tier combo deck? People play it here, but it's scrub tier. So according to you France > America at Legacy because Survival wasn't winning big events, now it is. Meanwhile several decks that seem to put up pretty continual results over there are considered scrub tier over here which makes me wonder what is going on over their when the rest of Europe seems to be pimping ANT and TES and France is placing elf decks and WR aggro. Not that I would particularly call you on it if you didn't act like France knew something the rest of the world didn't. At least on Survival we can now see that isn't entirely the case. Also as the the original comment you quoted I'd have to say most of America DOESN'T AGREE WITH BANNING SURVIVAL on the 20th, at least as of 2-3 weeks ago the poll showed that people were almost 4 to 1 against banning anything on the 20th.

Sorry I did not read all your post. I stopped at "it is not a tiers 1 or 2 deck". Totally wrong. It is not because it is not played in the US that it makes of elfball a bad deck. Sorry but I don't remember the US being the center of the world, especially in magic.
Whatever, I was answering to someone that made quite the same attacks on elfball few pages ago.

Oh, and sorry but I don't want make a continent war (otherwise I would have said, for example, that two french were in the final of the world, that nassifs won the GP in the US, ...), so let's stop there.

[Azdraël]

Elf Ball is like french military history, they may have been colose to winnintg some battles, but they've never won a war.

At least we got one older than just 2 centuries. Since when one's history value should be compared to the numbers of battles won? Ah sweet American "policeness" of the world.

End of troll.
(and yea, soft doesnt deserve a ban yet, it could easily got smashed)

[dontbiteitholmes]

Sorry I did not read all your post. I stopped at "it is not a tiers 1 or 2 deck". Totally wrong. It is not because it is not played in the US that it makes of elfball a bad deck. Sorry but I don't remember the US being the center of the world, especially in magic.
Whatever, I was answering to someone that made quite the same attacks on elfball few pages ago.

Oh, and sorry but I don't want make a continent war (otherwise I would have said, for example, that two french were in the final of the world, that nassifs won the GP in the US, ...), so let's stop there.

No one said US was center of the world for Magic, everyone knows French players are good at Magic obviously, this whole thing started because someone posted results from 4 large tournaments in France without Survival in the top 8 and said like "Ooh Lala Survival fails to overcome the meta." The argument goes both ways, but now that Survival has shown up in a large French event is SCG Open like numbers I think we can agree that the problem is not just America fails to adapt overall but that Survival + Vine is really good. That said, most hardcore Legacy players seem to agree we don't need to ban it YET and that WoTC should give the format more time to develop to see if Survival or Vines are really broken or if the format just hasn't adjusted yet. I don't think we should ban Survival regardless. My opinion is the same as always, wait a couple more months, let us innovate, and if decks with Survival + Vine are still making up 1/2 the top 8's of 100+ person events worldwide when the next banned list update comes around ban Vengevine, as there are 6000 creatures in Legacy and only that one has put Survival in tier 1 status since Pithing Needle was printed. Either way I'm over arguing about this.

[frenchy-man]

In standard 5 UB in top 8. However it is not question to ban the deck. In legacy, 2 survival in to 8. Why would survival be banned ?

[Rune]

In standard 5 UB in top 8. However it is not question to ban the deck. In legacy, 2 survival in to 8. Why would survival be banned ?

Like Artowis just said in another thread, they played 18 rounds at Worlds but only 6 of them were with Standard decks, so the fact that 5 UB decks made top 8 doesn't mean much. Some of the UB players in the top 8 had very bad records in the Standard portion. For instance, one went 3-3 with UB but tea bagged everyone in draft and Extended, so he still made top 8.

[DragoFireheart]

I doubt either SotF or Vengevine are going anywhere. Survival has been "fair" for years and there are numerous ways to handle Vengevine. Sure, it can be the nuts, but any deck can be the nuts if it gets it's god hand. We haven't had the deck exist long enough to determine if it's format warping like Flash.

[Nelis]

I'm almost bored to death by all those Survival discussions.

Maybe a more interesting discussion would be about Wizards abandoning their own rules on power creep by printing so many strong cards. It seems to me they abandoned them completely in favor of maximizing sales profits.

Apparently it is discussion already. http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...e-Anyawy/page4

[SpikeyMikey]

In standard 5 UB in top 8. However it is not question to ban the deck. In legacy, 2 survival in to 8. Why would survival be banned ?

Because WotC has this quaint notion that people who play Legacy are casual players and they need to keep the format "fun" and casual. See Mystical Tutor. If it's good enough for pros to beat casuals on MTGO, it's too good.

[Tacosnape]

Well, in what will likely be the last time I get to play the deck, I went 3-1 in my final run with Vengevine Survival, making my career run with the deck X-1 (I think 18-1, not entirely sure.) And swerved several people's opinions on the ban list in the process, as I stuck Survival on the table only twice, and was 1-1 in those games. I also lost all four die rolls.

Round 1, I played Belcher. Game one I outraced a subpar, mulliganed hand. Game two I had a Mindbreak Trap for the first assault, then Mongrel/Rootwalla/Vengevine antics on turn two to outrace the recovery.

Round 2, Dredge. Game 1 I had turn one Hierarch/Rootwalla/Arrogant Wurm/Vengevine and outraced. Game 2 I had a Macabre and a Ratchet Bomb, which let my ground guys get through.

Round 3, Brian playing Welder Reanimator. I lose more matches to Brian than anyone ever, just because he always has something incredibly weird. Game 1 I stick a Survival on turn one on the draw, only to be wrecked by turn two Sundering Titan Welder antics before I can really do anything. Game 2 I Swords a Platinum Emperion, hardcast a Vengevine, and tutor up a Crypt. Vengevine trades with a hardcast Necrotic Ooze, then my Mongrel and Rootwalla get in a race with a Lodestone Golem. Annoying. I start losing the race, so I drop a topdecked Serenity, which is a turn away from blowing up my opponent's Golem and three lands. I swing in, comfortable at 8. Bad move. He hits me with the Golem, then hardcasts Triskelion and kills me with the rail gun. Oopsie.:) I knew the Necrotic Ooze combo was in here, and I actually died with a Pithing Needle in my hand, so I chalk this up to play error on my part. But still. When it's like 40 degrees in the shop, you struggle to predict hardcasted Triskelions.

Round 4, Markbris with BW Confidant. Game one he mulls to six and leads with Top, which is all I needed to stick a land, Enlightened Tutor up a Survival, stick a Diamond, and ramp into turn three Vengevine insanity.

Game 2 is what changed his mind about Vengevine. My opening hand was Windswept Heath, Forest, Elvish Spirit Guide, Vengevine, Vengevine, Basking Rootwalla, Survival of the Fittest. I look over at my friend Jerath, trying to get to 2-2 with a rogue homebrew Pyromancer's Ascension/Jace the Mind Sculptor deck.

"This hand's a card away (Wild Mongrel) from being awesome."

"Yes. Yes it is. You'll draw it."

"Nah. Discard's going to wreck me. Watch."

Mark Inquisitions me turn one and takes Survival. I draw Wild Mongrel.

I look at Jerath. "Oh. You were right."

I explode, and kill him in two turns.

So yeah. I'll miss this deck. Vengevine should be the one to get the axe. And I'll definitely still play it if it doesn't.

Also, ban Triskelion. Hardcast Lightning Bolts for >> Format.

[markbris]

Mark Inquisitions me turn one and takes Survival. I draw Wild Mongrel.

I actually inquisitioned you and dropped needle on survival off of a ritual, then you destroyed me with vengevienes,rootwalla, mongrel all played on turn 2. sweeeeet

[Tacosnape]

I actually inquisitioned you and dropped needle on survival off of a ritual, then you destroyed me with vengevienes,rootwalla, mongrel all played on turn 2. sweeeeet

Oh yeah. Arctic card stores >> Short term memory.

I did get that all out on my first turn, though. Spirit Guide.

[nedleeds]

I actually inquisitioned you and dropped needle on survival off of a ritual, then you destroyed me with vengevienes,rootwalla, mongrel all played on turn 2. sweeeeet

You couldn't remove a creature. Non flying green one at that.

[brianw712]

You couldn't remove a creature. Non flying green one at that.

He actually would have had to remove 4 creatures. And seeing as how he was taking 8 turn one, and at least 12 turn two, there wasn't a lot of time for him to do that.

[Rune]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...e122k_icon.jpg

What a teaser!

[Nihil Credo]

What a teaser!

I believe it's a "teaser" in the same sense that sneaking behind you and ramming a horse-sized dildo in your unsuspecting butt is "foreplay".

[Rune]

I believe it's a "teaser" in the same sense that sneaking behind you and ramming a horse-sized dildo in your unsuspecting butt is "foreplay".

lolz

Yeah, it was just an atempt at sarcasm.