You use Inquisition which hits only one Planeswalker so four Vindicate is the right number here. Your mana denial plan is strong which lessens other forms of removal. Creature removal. I think Damnation is in order. This feels like a heavy board control variant, mass removal is needed MD.
What matchup do you need damnation for? You certainly beat Tribal after sideboarding. I already have 10 removal spells main deck...
Inquisition is the way to go. I don't need to take away Plainswalkers just because opponents rarely have more than 3 lands in play.
I use the next deck for some tournaments in our city:
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [UNH] Plains
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [R] Scrubland
1 [EVE] Fetid Heath
4 [OD] Swamp (2)
2 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
1 [U] Scrubland
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [FUT] Tombstalker
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
// Spells
2 [AP] Gerrard's Verdict
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
2 [AP] Vindicate
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
what do you think about it?
you have only 6 Removal (4 Swords 2 Vindicate), for me not enough to feel comfortable, but I don't know what your opponents play, so maybe this is enough
maybe you could describe your local meta a bit, cause i don't know where you are from, and for instance german and american legacy differs a lot.
@Gvaelbur: Mother of Runes looks a bit out of place here. She's there to protect Confidant, Tombstalker? Your 10 discard MD should do that just fine. I'd look into more pinpoint removal (meta depending of course). I'd raise the Vindicate count to at least three. Also, one Elspeth, really? I'm not a fan of one-ofs outside of combo. Sure, you have BoB and 8 fetches+top but I feel 2 is the right number. Mox Diamond is interesting. I am a huge fan of that card but have never tested it in Deadguy. Is first turn Hymn the only reason? Very different from my build but looks better against combo.
I have been playing Deadguy since September. The deck has put up amazing stats for me. Lots of x-1's with top fours. The deck can compete with anything it faces. The list I've been running as follows. This deck is packing some serious card advantage. 2 for ones with hymn. Tidehollow takes one as I play one. Mom locks down the battlefield. BOB draws forever. SFM refills your hand. and the swords draw you cards or pull out of the yard.
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Mother of Runes
3 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Jitte
1 SoFI
1 SoLS
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg Tomb of...
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
1 Plain
Sideboard per meta Usually been running 4 extirpate and 2 Fae Mcabre, 4 pithing needle, 3 Duress, 2 Perish
Just some thoughts on Matchups. I have not lost to storm combo yet. Tidehollow helps shore up that matchup. Survival has been 50/50 independent of build. Enough graveyard hate in its best form really helps...Needles as well. SFM is the nuts...she is the best top deck in any situation. I use to run gatekeepers instead of bobs...mistake...bob is nuts...plus triple black is difficult to get. The deck in this form is very dependent upon drawing equipment, but that has rarely been a problem for me with bob and 7 ways to get equipment. Has anyone else tried something similar to this build? A note about Nighthawk...he keeps you in games you have no business being in....Today a second turn iona was resolved against me...I dropped a nighthawk and was able to fend off iona for over 7 or so turns... He just beats some decks by himself...also with an active mom it makes for some awkward combat situations for the opponent.
4 confidants is a must but do you really need all four Mystics? With just three targets I would think it would be dead from time to time. I go back and forth on Sculler. I love the flavor, the cost, the whole package. I just hate when I remove a key card and he gets zapped eot. You have Mom to protect it but she really needs to be protecting Bob and Nighthawk.
Also, have you seen that new white knight spoiled? Looks pretty sick here. WW is tough since you run Hymn but pro green and doublestrike is exceptional, eps since you run all four Mystics.
I have never questioned the 4th mystic. One will usually get countered. Plus the deck is low on p/t quality creatures so it is dependent on the equipment and SFM #4 maximizes drawing them for me. The deck basically runs just enough disruption to buy you the time to get equipment out and start creating insane card advantage.
To Leto, Oiolosse: my meta is very different, but the most frequantly are agro decks
Ideas:
4 stp +2 vindi: I use vindicates not for removal, but for killing Jace and other walkers, and for destroing arts,enchantments and so on, 10 discard spell anough to stop agro plan
3 mox diamonds: its not only faster start, but also they give us posibility to use more lands that dont give colour mana such as mishra factory,wasteland, fetid heath
mother of runes is a perfect creature, it protects our confidants and other warriors from removals, and perfectly blocks enemy boys
single elspeth is a deck keeper and sudden win condition for many games
I understand using Vindicates for Planeswalkers, artifacts, enchantments and trouble lands but then that leaves you with just 4 Swords for spot removal. If your meta is aggro heavy then I don't see how just 4 stp will hold it back. Discard does do a good job against all sorts of spells, creatures included, but it is a proactive solution against proactive opponents, which doesn't fare too well in my experience. Gerrard's Verdict doesn't do much good games 2 and 3 when all the opponent saw in way of removal game 1 was stp.
I would give EE a shot in place of Verdicts. You will blow out your Mother of Runes and your Confidants from time to time but you'll at least have MD answers to EtW and Tribal decks.
Elpseth has proved to be amazing in my build. But then again I have an unconventional list that better utilizes her.
Vindicate is one of the "Swiss Knifes" (hope you know what i mean, cause dont know if its the fitting Term in english^^) off the Deck, that grants you to get no real bad matchups. But as Oiolosse sad, if your meta is heavy aggro you need more removal, one good Topdeck of your opponent and no discard can rescue you (since all is Sorcery-Speed) and an Tarmo comes around.
On Elspeth i aggre with you, she is god in most matchups, stalls against Zoo infinite or pumps your equipped guys to a 3-rund clock (which is badass). Ulti is cool too
EEs got a place in my deck just yesterday after testing and realizing I need some sort of Sweeper. Worked pretty well in the last 5 or six games. Maybe provokes a grip to save your Sticks played on next turn^^
// Lands
2 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
6 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
// Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Vampire Nighthawk
// Spells
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Diabolic Edict
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Engineered Explosives
// Sideboard
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Jotun Grunt
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Relic of Progenitus
this is the list I run at the moment, set up mainly to rip apart Zoo and other aggro-decks (goblin-mu is not bad either when you catch the lackey on the play with inquisition or on the draw with sword)
the number of Cards is maybe a bit uncommon but worked out pretty well for me and is constantly evolving
sideboard is pretty much against everything beside aggro, hymns against control, Canonist to fist combo and Jotun+Relic against Dredge, Thresh, Loam...
Hmm....I thought that Thoughtseize and Wasteland are very useful in these kinds of decks, why dont you use it?
I play Inquisition above TS at the moment cause I play mainly against all kinds off aggro and the Inquisition picks (nearly) all relevant Critters without the "pay 2 Life" which CAN break your back in some games. This is one of the main reasons for Else > Bitterblossom too, with this deck i can stabilize on really low life and beat my opponent with nearly all options my deck has, only Confi is risky (but makable with Top online)
But I know from some other Discussion that not few Players see it TS > Inqui cause you can pick really everything and I respect that, but I havent yet the moment where I thougt "goddamn, give me that TS" maybe when that moment pops up, I change the slots or play split^^
Wastelands are not included to hold the manabase as stable es possible. I have heavy coloured Manacosts with triple-B, double-B or double-W and simply cannot use colourless mana for most the time, so hand with Wasteland+Land+goodstuff is crap most of the time. This is a major problem. In a deadguy relying heavily on LD/Manadenial feat. Vindi+Sinkhole+ maybe Smallpox and Loam I would play it for sure, but weaken my manabase heavily for a random Screw once a time is not appealing for me (in my experience you get most of the games with an randomscrew in your hands anyway, maybe not so fast and secure but you would get it)
this is only my opinion as an Legacy-noob but as far it worked out^^
EDIT: What do you guys think about the spoiled white guy, doublestrike + protection from vegetables and pointremoval sounds like the perfect carrier for our Swords (double-trigger *yummiÜ). Supporting WW wasn't big trouble until now and gets with him even more interesting. With SoFaI he hits for 12, draws 2 cards and has prot from everything, except white. That is badass^^
Last edited by Leto; 12-19-2010 at 01:33 PM.
I won't be playing the new guy....Double white will be hard to get. I like Nighthawk In my 3cc slot as well, he just does so much...but who knows, until the new guy is tested not much can be said.
Short tourney report from a weekly. 18 people. Very diverse meta.
R1 Sneak Show
g1 turn one discard and turn two tidehollow after he mulls. He scoops after a few turns
g2 Thoutseize and hymn on turn two gg
1-0 2-0
r2 goblins
g1 I'm able to hold him off for 5 turns with removal and discard until I get a SOFI online.
g2 More of the same..SOFI is too much, especially with Nighthawk.
2-0 4-0
r3 Bant Surviva a vine
g1 He mulls to five...sees one land in first 3 draws, I vindicate his land, then another the next turn.
g2 I have a lackluster hand, so does he and I lose to pumped up rootwallas because all of my guys are bears without equipment
g3 We both build an impressive board, I'm swinging with Nighthawk with SOLS to negate his double vengevine attacks. Eventually I perish the board and swing in for the W
3-0 6-1
r4 ooze survival
g1 Bob gets me down to 3 life and he fauna shamans on triskelion to finish me...I had double nighthawk and was going to be swinging with equipment the next turn
g2 Progenitus turn 3 with no answeres
3-1 6-3
top 8 bw control (kind of a mirror except not)
g1 takes about 40 minutes as we each anwer everything...eventually I stick a nightwak with both swords and finish him
g2 he dominates from the get go with double hymn
g3 we decide to draw because it is midnight and we want to go home
3-1-1 7-4
Nighthawk one me a few games...Bob won me a few games....SFM is the nuts....Mulliganned only once all night
gz to your performance, makes me even more eager to get the missing parts of my deck together^^
Congratulations Jade! Could you share your list?
Really like your MD, any thoughts on a post-Survival sideboard? There probably isn't as much a demand for 6 'yard hate spells and 4 Needle, though I'm not sure what would be best. Maybe some extra removal to stall versus Tribal and Zoo while you get equipment online? Some sort of 'Disenchant' type effects might be nice too if expecting a resurgence in CBT and Enchantress (possibly Affinity too depending what the rest of this block brings).
This deck still seems positioned well though, so hopefully it continues to be tuned and do well.
First off, huge props to Gene for top 8ing in Kansas City this past weekend. Gene and I are in the the same play group. We play slightly different lists of Deadguy but his worked nicely as he went 7-1 in swiss and loss in the quaterfinals during a sudden death game 3 against Goblins. His opponent was on the play in game three and showed him the turn one lackey, so Gene mulled down to two to find and answer and couldn't... and ended up losing under unusual and unfortunate circumstances...his deck dominates goblins with no time restraints..... Anyhow. Deadguy will get a little more attention maybe after his placing. Star City games has his deck list.
@Dr.Nojman my list is about 5 posts up.
@cairo Post survival....I think I'll cut the graveyard hate down to 5 cards...however since the banning I've seen Dredge in both tournaments I've played in (one I lost playing with Faeries...the other I won playing Zoo) I think I am going to run 4 Mcabre and 1 extirpate in the board...Mcabre is so sick...allowing us to be aggressive and tapping out while still being able to remove their stuff at instant speed and without being countered. Neddle is so amazing against everything that I think I will always play 3 or 4 in my board...with increase in CB decks, top will always be hit.... I name deed, or EE or planeswalkers, or belcher, seigegang, or vial or anything really. I'll keep atleast two duress for Combo. Additional permanent hate would be ideal...Needle takes care of a lot of these, but i understand the disenchant effect desire. I'm going to just settle being comfy with vindicate and and my discard. I think that Newhorizon will see some more play now (since it was argueably the best deck between reanimator and survival) so perish should still be well positioned...at that will usually get two zoo animals for you. I don't think the board needs major changes at this point. We crush goblins and merfolk...and they were each well represented in Kansas City. I still really like this deck and will play it at larger tournaments. For now I'm playing anything with Price of Progress :) at my local shop. Lots of Duals running around.
Another thing we should consider is with the increase in CB decks...is Aether Vial going to become an auto include? Gene's list may indicate that...I'm excited to read his matchup reports
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