I like most of the list. the most glaring change to me is that you should drop the 3 priests so you can have 4 quirion rangers. Try it, it will speed up your goldfish so much.Originally Posted by abel_lg
Ya that is why I play 7 fetch and 6 forest. 13 lands is good for me. Sometimes I mull with no lands but it's infrequent. It really helps thin out the deck.
This is another reason to play 4 quirion ranger, It turns a llanowar and a forest into 4 mana if you have one land hand (which I usually do)
no wishable cradle?
There should def be a wishable cradle, forgot to mention that
At least I suggest to play with 5 fetch, it's a reasonable mode of, at least, clean 2 slots with the 1st or 2nd land you play.
I must redesign my SB to include a Cradle. I don't play in a competitive environment, so the SB part which interests me most is the "wishable" one. I like Maarten list also, and I appreciate the idea of cutting Priests for Quirions, meybe a single one can remain in the main deck.
¿And what about Ezuri and ESG? We haven't speak about that. Obvious Ezuri is in the main as a backup aggro way of winning if we don't combo (also regenerate ability is useful) and ESG, will be enough with 1 or 2 only, more than that will be contraproducent. Which of you use one or more copies of Ezuri and ESG?
Also I will to thank all of you contributing this post, making this deck a viable way to play Legacy. It's a cheap deck, maybe not tier 1 but a great and cheap way to go to a Legacy tournament and have fun... Maybe with the past of the time and testing this deck can be a tier1 deck!
The downside of Tendrils is Teeg. Grapeshot can get rid of creatures. But that's a stretch. And I agree that the mana isn't the reason not to play Tendrils.
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I'm kinda prefering Crop rotation, as you can get an untapped Cradle in turn two after comboing a bit and running out of mana, you spend G to get some extra 5 manas or so which is sweeet. Test it, I find it awesome :O
Nihilobstat on Cockatrice. Let's play some Magic!!!
Living wish= 1 noncreature card in main
cradle+crop rotation= 2 noncreature cards in main
you want to keep the noncreature card count as low as possible to maintain combo consistency, so the wishable cradle is the better option.
So if you were playing BGW Rock and wanted to beat Elves combo, how would you do it? Would you load up on removal and try and slow the mana production? Load up on discard and try to fizzle them before they start? How useful is Pernicious Deed against you? How useful is Ethersworn Cannonist? If Nettle Sentinel gets Extirpated, how much does that hamper the deck?
That's what I were thinking, maybe too much slots, with the past of the time the list of "untouchable slots" increase, but also... can we introduce Cradle in a Forest slot?
Definetly load up on creatures. You will lose the lategame eventually since Elves can outdraw you even with sweepers, so try to abuse the low land count and don't let them build up critical mass. Always kill the 1-drop if possible, get an early threat and sweep aggressively (it's mainly a tempo ting so don't get greedy). Land destructio is probably your best bet, so load up on Vindicates, Sinkholes and especially Smallpox (as every basic forest counts when repopulating the board). Discard is again meh overall, but if given the choice pick Wirewood Symniote first, then either mana or card draw depending on the situation. Deed is way slow on its own, but again gets better if you are aggressive about denying us a quick start. Be aware that Symbiote somewhat negates sweepers though. Canonist is Ok, but everyone will bring in Grip to help deal with it and Plague, and it doesn't stop the Lord backup plan on its own.
Yeah, I've cut Plague completely from my board in favor of Dueling Grounds; it's more effective against Fish and completely hoses Goblins. I used to have EE's in board but those are gone now too with so little fast Zoo/Cat Sligh in the format. I was thinking maybe Cannonist would be good board but I'd rather semi-blank Grip if it's coming in. I might just have to suck it up as a bad M/U.
The reasons I like the cradle in the board better is that my 13-land build usually only gets one land in the opening hand, and if it's cradle then you're screwed. You don't really need cradle until you combo anyway, which you can get with wish. It seems like the right play.
I substitute a basic forest for a cradle, so it doesn't count as an extra noncritter card, and it's working fine for me, sure you get once in 40 games a hand with 1 cradle, and no forest and you're screwed, but I've also won 10 games out of those 40 thanks exclusively to the G instant speed untapped craddle to go off.
Nihilobstat on Cockatrice. Let's play some Magic!!!
And how many of those games would you have still won anyway with the wishable cradle?
None of them, because I use rotation when I'm comboing with no Nettle or I haven't drawn the Heritage and only have Birchlore, so I'm really screwed with mana, then for 1 mana at instant speed you get an untapped extra cradle, which doesn't count as your "land per turn" which is how you would have to play it with wish.
This way, on turn 2 I can combo with 2 lands, and then get an extra cradle, untapped. With wish, I would have to wait one more turn, to play cradle on turn 3 or 4.
Nihilobstat on Cockatrice. Let's play some Magic!!!
It seems it's a conflictive point. I think it depends so much on the number of lands you play. If you play 13 lands like k2thej it's a better way to have wishable Cradle than Crop Rotation + main Cradle, but if you play 15 maybe a version like NihilObstat is possible, altough I don't know how many lands he plays in his deck.
Ya I think, again, crop rotation is another non-creature card that you really don't want to see while comboing if you don't need it
It's just card choice. I play 15-16 lands, I know it's a lot, but I was playing 13 before and I had to mulligan way TOO much.
So, on another topic. What do you guys run in the sideboard? What are the general cards? Do you all play Jitte or not? Because I don't but maybe it's a good idea against control.
I also find it Impossible to beat something like Canadian threshold packing so many counters and lightning effects. What do you do against them? Jitte?
Nihilobstat on Cockatrice. Let's play some Magic!!!
I think so also, it's card choice. Maybe if you are good and patient when taking a mulligan to shuffle placing the discarded hand homogeneously in the deck to minimize the choice of no land draw you're more able to play a 13 land deck. Also some players will prefer have the risk of a no land mulligan than having an initial hand with 2 or 3 lands... Card choice: everyone must play with the deck version which is more comfortable for him within a similar deck shell inside the archetype.
Also I think Jitte doesn't fit in this deck like in aggro elves version. Against control, most players use Leylines, but if you play a lot against Canadian Thresold you will need to bear with lightnings. Maybe pack Leylines and a lord and go to an aggro win: if he doesn't draw enough lightning and you begin with Leyline, it's so possible to win.
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