I think the greensplash will be needed again in the near future, but I have another question: How do people manage the slots for 4 Wastes/Ports in a three or even two-coloured list (I know the relevance of the Manadenial). For example, here is my actually played manabase:
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
2 Taiga
4 Mountain
-2 Fetch, + 2 Mountain.Originally Posted by DarkJester
10 sources of G is enough. The splash is usually lighter than Black.
Iy you run Warren weirdings, Wort, and other Black thing on the board, going down to 4 Basic Mountains is ok.
If you splash 3 colors, 3 Basics is fine.
But 10 fetchs is aways a lot. 7-8 are more than fine.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I want to build this for a gauntlet, can someone give me the best, or close to best , l Rb list.
He does run only 7 fetchs. I find his manabase perfectly alright.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Holy cow!
I though Badlands were fetches there!
Than is is great. Nothing to change.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
A standard list is something like this:
Artifacts:
4x Aether Vial
Creatures:
3x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Goblin Chieftan
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
4x Goblin Warchief
3x Mogg War Marshal
2x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Stingscourger
Land:
1x Arid Mesa
2x Badlands
3x Bloodstained Mire
6x Mountain
3x Rishadan Port
1x Swamp
4x Wasteland
2x Wooded Foothill
Sorcery:
2x Warren Wierding
Hey guys,
I'm in the middle of the preparations for a big tournament at 30th Dec. I'm testing a lot against The Rock/Junk feat Mox Diamonds and it appears to be a tough/bad MU.
Maybe I'm just not used to this MU: I want to have a strategy against this deck (like we have already worked out for Zoo and Stormcombo MU).
What are your experiences agaist the Rock? What strategy is most effective to beat them?
Manadenial, swarm, beat them in early game/midgame/lategame etc.?
It's not that I expect tons of Rock decks at this tourney. I just want to know how to handle it.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
postboard or preboard?
preboard is more about keeping them off white, while postboard is more about keeping them off black. Green honestly doesn't matter. They have slow creatures, so gempalm and stinger will do their jobs. Decks with hierarches or birds will get owned by your Sharpshooter (I believe you play this in the main). Get rid of their confidants the same way. This will allow them to keep up with your ringleaders, so you have to get rid of them. Drops things as soon as possible because discard is annoying. They don't play many (if any) sweepers main and maybe Pernicious Deed, Engineered Plague or Engineered Explosives postboard.
What can you board? Not much really. Boartusk Liege does not work since they play like 8 spot removal main deck. You could play some combo hate. Thorn of Amethyst is strong here. It slows down Vindicate, plague, Hymn to Tourach. That's pretty good I think. Goblin Pyromancer is pretty awesome too for a faster alpha strike.
Discard heavy decks are a pain in the ass for Goblins. Without a hand full of creatures we can't cheat anything into play! So really the best game plan you can hope for is to play out your hand as quickly as possible. This means you really need one-drops, preferably Aether Vial but Lackey is very keepable on the play. Ideally you'll want 2 one-drops on the draw, as the first will most likely be Thoughtseized. Once you have your goblins in play the Rock can't deal with them too easily, as Goblins has the anti-meta advantage of playing 3cc+ creatures that are naturally resistant to E.E. and Pernicious Deed. You'll have to be very careful with your mana denial in this MU as sometimes you need the mana to cast your creatures more than you need to deny them their mana. It's really going to be based on your board position and the game state.
On sideboarding- there isn't much to side in or out. Your gameplan G2 isn't any different than G1. you need to play out your hand and win as quickly as possible. Mana denial isn't going to be a big factor. So just stick to the same plan post board as pre-board.
There are some match-ups where there is no clear gameplan post-board. In these MUs it's important to just stick with the game plan of dealing 20 damage as quickly as possible.
I have been testing a lot against this deck. Game one, Ports and Wastelands are very important in keeping them off of a specific color. If they do not have Mox Diamond, I like keeping them off of green because they usually only play 2-3 green sources. Without green, they do not have creatures. You can also keep them off of double black if you're afraid of Hymn to Tourach.
If you're on the play, the new Dark Horizons deck has very little answers to mountain, lackey, go. If they don't have swords, they're kinda screwed. Drop a SGC or RIngleader and they will have a tough time trying to come back. If running black, Warren Weirding is awesome in this matchup. Gempalm/Bolt their Confidants, then WW their KotR and Goyfs. THe few creatures they have left will be needed to trade with your piledrivers.
Aether Vial is also very good in this matchup. They do not play many creatures, and vial helps us to play a ccreature every turn while still sticking to the mana denial plan. I got this matchup to be over 50% game one.
G2 is where things start going down. They ussually board in 4 E. Plagues and some Pernicious Deeds. Tough to deal with. I splash green, but since i only have one Chieftain, multiple plagues are tough to deal with. Perish is good to board in if you're running black, as are any extra Warren Weidings or lords you have in the board
I have been wonderin: This deck likes to cheat creatures into play with Vial and Lackey, so why Goblin Warchief? Why not 4 Chieftains? I know Warchief lowers his friends cost, but Chieftain powers them up.
You can't count on Lackey connecting and you can't count on Vial resolving. Warchief gives tempo advantage to you and enables you to play 2 Goblins instead of only 1 and still being able to use your Wastelands aggressively/activate Port.
This looks like a job for me.
Most of my posts will be written from my phone, so please excuse the eventual lack of proper typing.
Goblins: A Year in Review
We're at year's end and various news and entertainment orgs are doing the annual "Year in Review" schtick. This includes Magic sites like SCG, which inspired me to take a look back at notable Goblin decks from SCG Opens over the course of the year. I chose only three decks to review: the first Goblin deck to make a top 16 in 2010, the Goblin deck that placed the highest in '10, and the last goblin deck to place in top 16 in '10. So I've presented them in order, starting with Curtis Melton's 11th place finish wayyyyyy back in January.
Goblins
A Legacy Magic deck, by Curtis Melton
11th place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Los Angeles, California, United States on 2010-01-03
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com
Click here to see a summary of all decks from 2010 Legacy Open Series
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
Creatures
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Stingscourger
2 Warren Instigator
Basic Lands
18 Mountain
Lands
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Goblin Tinkerer
4 Pyrokinesis
2 Anarchy
Here's a deck that stays mono-red but doesn't run any MWMs, Skirk prospectors or Sharpshooters. It's extremely straightforward and is guaranteed to put down a hastey beating with 8 haste-giving lords MD. But it important to remember that these decks exist in context of the meta. This was a tournament that was won by Enchantress. The field was full of classic decks like CounterTop, The Rock, Merfolk and Belcher. This was in the days before Reanimator and ANT started running the tables. Now the meta of January 2011 might be looking a lot like the meta of January 2010, since the decks that were the biggest movers and shakers of the past year (Reanimator, Survival) have been banned out of contention.
Goblins
A Legacy Magic deck, by David Sharfman
1st place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Orlando, Florida, United States on 2010-03-28
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/19057.html
Click here to see a summary of all decks from 2010 Legacy Open Series
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
Creatures
1 Earwig Squad
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
Tribal Sorceries
3 Warren Weirding
Basic Lands
6 Mountain
1 Swamp
Lands
2 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Rishadan Port
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Boartusk Liege
3 Blood Moon
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Price of Progress
3 Pyrokinesis
David Sharfman won SCG open Orlando with the above list one month after Mueller took Reanimator to 1st place at the Madrid GP. You can see that Sharfman's deck is more tailored for a Meta where giant beasties with shroud run around as one-ofs on the battlefield, hence the 3 Warren Weirdings MD. The singleton MD Earwig Squad never really caught on among RB players. Being able to cast a 5/3 for 2b AND look through your opponent's deck still seems pretty good, but its anti-combo applications are limited. I've tried Earwig myself and have found it useful for stripping Jittes from some decks, but it isn't all that great against combo even as it cannot hit cards in hand. Still, this deck beat a field that only had one Reanimator and one ANT in the top 20, and those were supposedly the bogeymen decks of the day (and I remember playing at my local tourney back in spring, and Reanimator was absolutely everywhere). One thing I really like about this deck is the mana base. 22 Lands with a singleton swamp and 3 ports/4 wastes works great. I've been running this mana base for a while and it has worked wonders for me. I think that this deck taking 1st place was no accident. Rb Goblins was incredibly well positioned at the time. It had MD answers that just pounded on the deck du jour (Weirding for Reanimator) and it was then, as now, a coin-flip for the most aggro-deck with Zoo. It's no wonder then that the last SCG major finish for Goblins took place in the window between Feb and June 2010 when Reanimator found its market in the meta.
Goblins
A Legacy Magic deck, by Jim Davis
4th place at a StarCityGames.com Legacy Open tournament in Boxborough, Massachusetts, United States on 2010-11-07
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com
Click here to see a summary of all decks from 2010 Legacy Open Series
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Tin Street Hooligan
Basic Snow Lands
5 Snow-Covered Mountain
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Rishadan Port
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Taiga
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
3 Krosan Grip
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyrokinesis
Now onto Jim Davis' build, the last Goblin deck to place well in a SCG Open. This was back in November in Boston and no Goblin decks made it to the top in Richmond in December. This build ran the MWM, Prospector, Sharphooter trio that was meant to make blockers for Vengevines while machine-gunning Hierarchs and BoPs all day long. It's a build that has become very popular and often written about on this forum. The question now becomes: In a format without Survival is the above mentioned Trio still necessary? Does Goblins take a step back a year and go straight-out Aggro without any funny tricks again? I think it does, because without a dominant archetype to design against you should probably focus on a deck that is as straight-forward as possible, then develop from there as the format develops.
Oh, I just remembered I would be remiss if I did not mention the following...
Ryan Messick
Winner, 2010 Legacy Championship, August 6, 2010
Main Deck
60 cards
1 Arid Mesa
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Badlands
2 Barbarian Ring
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
21 lands
2 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
2 Warren Instigator
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
32 creatures
4 Aether Vial
3 Warren Weirding
7 other spells
Sideboard
1 Goblin King
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Lightning Bolt
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Warren Weirding
15 sideboard cards
Ryan Messick won Lecagy Champs, beating out 196 other players with this toolbox monstrosity. Congrats to him for rocking both Kiki-Jiki and Wort in the MD (and putting up a great showing while doing so). I never saw any sort of tournament report for this list, which is a bummer because I really want to know how this deck played out. Clearly it did great, which to many on this forum came as a surprise just looking at the decklist. I mean, Barbarian Ring? seriously? But it does give goblins some burn options without diluting the creature base. Wort lets you recycle Gempalm for an extra draw a turn. Kiki just wins if he gets online. Actually, both Wort and Kiki are incredibly powerful cards once they get online, but often you'd just rather have a SGC or Ringleader. I'm glad I remembered this list while writing about the SCG decks, because this deck was just so weird it made me happy. It reminds me that there is no clear-cut BEST goblin deck, and that even our very limited flex slots can produce a bounty of possibilities.
2010 was a standout year for Legacy Magic. The format has grown enormously. Bannings have caused 2 successful archetypes to collapse after brief periods of intense popularity. And now SCG has a STACKED calendar of Legacy events for the first half of 2011. This means more reports, more results, more knowledge of the meta and how get advantages against it. 2011 will be a great year for Magic, and hopefully the gobbos do us proud.
Nice summary.
I find we should also mention that we "worked out" core-cards (namely: 4 Vial, Lackey, Piledriver, Warchief, Matron, Ringleader, 2 SGC) and sperated them from the "flex-slots":
//Lands [22-24]
...
//Core [26]
...
//Others [number of removal + X]
...
//Sideboard [15]
...
If we go on presenting our decklists this way, comparing them will be much easier, because we only have to look at the "Lands", "Others" and "Sideboard" part. Those parts inlcude the most relevant information about what kind of changes one applied to his/her decklist.
I'd really appreciate if more people present their lists in this fashion.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Can we make a new primer by elaborating Gobolord's post? Our primer is very much outdated. We could also put more info regarding the possible cards in the "Others" slot. More like which decks the "Others" cards are metagamed for.
Last edited by bloodbrother; 12-29-2010 at 11:22 AM. Reason: Wala lang
I'm throwing together a RB list for Monday. Will this manabase work? It looks like crap, but all I had on short notice.
22 Land
4 Mountain
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Rishadan Port
2 Badlands
As for the list relevant cards are:
MD
4 Warren Instigator
4 Warren Weirding
SB
2 Perish
1 Nature's Ruin
The manabase looks fine, but if you fear a lot of Wastelands I would cut 1-2 Hovels for basic mountains. Also, let us know how 4 WI and 4 Warren Weirdings work. I usually only run 2 of each at the most, so I'm interested in hearing how the full playsets of both work out.
Hey fellow Warchiefs,
I’ve been on the last tourney for 2010 (aka. “The Big Goodbye-Survival-Party”).
I went 6-2-0 after 8 rounds, 20th out of 91 players. Just like last time only want to talk about the games I lost, not about those I won.
An overview:
Round 1: 2-0, RB Ponza (very oldschool)
Round 2: 1-2, Uwb Tempo Faeries
Round 3: 2-1, The Rock/Dark Horizons
Round 4: 2-0, NO Bant
Round 5: 1-2, Ooze Survival
Round 6: 2-0, Wbg Death in Texas
Round 7: 2-0, Solidarity
Round 8: 2-0, Tempo Bant
My list:
//Lands [23]:
8 Wasteland/Port
4 Taiga
4 Fetchlands
7 Mountain
//Core [26]:
…guess what…
//Others [8 + 3]:
3 L. Bolt
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Stingscourger
3 Warren Instigator
//Sideboard [15]:
4 Leyline otV
4 Chalice otV
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Nature’s Claim
Here we go:
Round 2: 1-2, Uwb Tempo Faeries
Game 1:
I go first with Vial. He plays s swamp. I shut his mana off with Rishadan Port. Matron gets me a Ringleader. Piledriver and 2 Matron do heavy damage to his lifes. He is on 9 and plays Bitterblossom. I play SGC, he scoops.
IN: 3 Nature’s Claim
OUT: 3 Lightning Bolt
Game 2:
I take mulligan to 6, keeping a slow hand with only first turn Lackey and several lands. He forces my Lackey and plays Bitterblossom on turn 2. Vendilion Clique, Tombstalker and some bitter Faeries finish me off, while Innocent Blood and Ghastly Demise kill my creatures. There is one situation that I want to point out: It’s my upkeep, my only card in hand is Ringleader, my Vial is @4 and I control 6 lands. I tap Vial for Ringleader in upkeep to not draw more lands in my drawstep. He plays Vendilion Clique in response on Vials ability. You be the judge: did I make a misplay; did my opp play very good; or is it both? I really don’t know. 1-1
Game 3:
I take mulligan to 5 (due to lack of lands) keeping a slow hand with 2 Mountain, Wasteland, Warchief and Matron. He is able to handle my creatures, destroy my Wasteland and drop a Bitterblossom on turn 2 and 3. I don’t find a third land or a creature with manacost <cc3 for the rest of the game. 1-2
Round 5: 1-2, Ooze Survival
Game 1:
On turn 2 Lackey connects into SGC, Bolt hits Birds of Paradise and Wasteland rips Savannah. He scoops. 1-0
IN: 4 Pyrokinesis
OUT: 2 Stingscourger, 2 Lightning Bolt
Game 2:
I keep a risky hand (without first-turn-drop or manadenial): 2 Taiga, Warren Instigator, Matron, 2 Ringleader, Pyrokinesis. He goes first with Birds. Then, on turn 2, plays Quirion Ranger, bounces his land, untaps Birds, plays his lands and plays Fauna Shaman (I thought: Yippikayeah motherfucker, he comes Pyrokinesis!!). That’s what I did: On my turn I play WI and burn his army (pitch Ringleader). He plays Tarmogoyf (3/4). On my turn I draw another Pyrokinesis. My hand is as follows: 2 Mountain, Ringleader, Matron, Pyrokinesis. I want to stop here and ask you guys what you would have done:
a) Play Pyrokinesis (pitch Matron) to kill Goyf and connect with WI
b) Play Pyrokinesis (pitch Ringleader) to kill Goyf and connect with WI
b) Wait and see what happens to find better (pitch-)targets for Pyrokinesis
I lost this game. 1-1
Game 2:
I keep a risky hand (that looks very much like the one in G2). He totally destroys my plans with Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy + Flashback. 1-2
I want to hear your opinion on those 2 topics. After that I have another thing I want to discuss (concerning a “new” idea for a 2011-decklist).
Happy New Year 2011 everyone!
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
I probably would have Pyrokinesis'd pitching Matron to connect with WI, dropping the Ringleader. Overall, nice report, thanks a lot!
@GoboLord
I would say that your opponent was going to Vendilion Clique you that turn anyway, but you just give him/her the opportune moment.
Was you activating your Aether Vial at end of opponent's turn every turn to check for cards like Vendilion Clique and Stifle?
-Zay
Entered this world without my consent, leaving this world against my will.
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