[Deck] Dredge

[DarthVicious]

Yeah, the Careful Study is awesome... in a LEDless List, which is the better list from my point of view, your turn 1 drops should be imp or tribe (in rare situations a blind therapy or nothing for the DDD-plan), and your second-turn- play should be a draw spell for going off (eventually and at it's best with a 2nd land and therapy-backup), hopefully breakthrough... but a study does it's work too. You just don't want to have the magus.

You playtested (or goldfished) LEDless? You simply don't need DA in this build, it's crap without LED. In Ledless-Dredge you need exactly these Draw-Effects: 4 Breakthrough, 3-4 Study, 4 Coliseum ( I would prefer four of each)

4 troll, stinkweed, thug, pimp, breakthrough, study, therapy, city, mine, coliseum, moeba, shadow, bridge
3 tribe, Dreturn
1 iona, fkz

I added 4 study after I noticed my deck only had 56 cards in it. Im prolly missing a previously extirpated card, but well see. Magus became tribes due to studies. I've been goldfishing, almost strictly. Played a few games against Aeon bridge, but I refuse to play against my brothers deck with MD leylines. So, I goldfish.

I know the list looks horrible. I posted it from my phone this morning before I left for work

[DarkJester]

4 troll, stinkweed, thug, pimp, breakthrough, study, therapy, city, mine, coliseum, moeba, shadow, bridge
3 tribe, Dreturn
1 iona, fkz

I added 4 study after I noticed my deck only had 56 cards in it. Im prolly missing a previously extirpated card, but well see. Magus became tribes due to studies. I've been goldfishing, almost strictly. Played a few games against Aeon bridge, but I refuse to play against my brothers deck with MD leylines. So, I goldfish.

I know the list looks horrible. I posted it from my phone this morning before I left for work

If your brother plays 4 leyline, you should experience in dealing with hate....its better than goldfishing i think....try sideboard-tech like natures claim or ray of revelation against it (or chain of vapor) and you'll see what seems the best choice for you. This will show you also which cards you should cut after boarding for your brought- in antihate. A good experience I think. And I would alter your ManaBase and cut the MainDeck DR-Targets.

[DarthVicious]

For now my board just has 4 chain, 4 firestorm, 3 grudge and 4 needle. I could make the grudges become ray easily tho.

I have slim to none experience playing the deck, so I want to get used to going off with it before I play against free turn 0 hate. Getting blown out when you're learning a deck just turns you off to it.

[Izor]

Wait, since when has Dredge started to disrupt it's opponents gameplan (save Therapy) instead of advancing it's own? What has happened to this deck?

Seriously, bringing in NC to destroy Vials sounds horrible.

Answer:

I mean. If you have a Claim and they don't have a Crypt and you have spare mana, killing a Vial is fine. He's clearly not like 'SHIT HE'S GOT AETHER VIALS BETTER LOAD UP ON NATURE'S CLAIM.'

I wouldn't bring Claim in against Goblins in the dark but it's not like his point is any less valid when applied to Grudge.

I have liked having redundant Grudges when my opponent has Jitte, but if I'm 100% sure he doesn't have Relics and Crypts, I'm going back to my game 1 configuration.

Folks need to remember that there's a heavy cost for the deck's consistency to bring in a single sideboard card. There isn't dead weight in the maindeck. Every single card coming out hurts.

It's possible that I didn't express my thoughts well. I absolutely agree with what I quoted above.

If I know that my opponent won't bring in any graveyard hate post board, I will never board Claims or anything only to disrupt their game plan. I only meant to say that IF I expect there to be hate, I will comfortably board in at least 4 cards against it, especially if I know that my anti hate won't be dead even if they don't draw, or in the end don't have the hate. Hitting Vial, Jitte and stuff isn't what I plan to do by boarding, but I won't complain if I can blow them up with redundant anti hate.

[Sunsatzu]

in games 2-3, if im on the play, unless im expecting Leyline or Crypt, i will keep the main close to what it usually is as the deck can always win before the opponent activates Relic or plays Teeg

[DarthVicious]

Iona is pretty much gravy, I would have no problem cutting her from the main. Zealot is too good not to run IMO. I almost want to run two.

What would be the best to bring in for destructive purposes? Terastodon? Idk about Angel of Despair. I want Archon in the board too.

[Sunsatzu]

Iona is pretty much gravy, I would have no problem cutting her from the main. Zealot is too good not to run IMO.

i myself have considered cutting Sphinx for Iona of late, if for nothing else than the storm & Lands decks i expect to come back out in my meta

[GoldenCid]

i myself have considered cutting Sphinx for Iona of late, if for nothing else than the storm & Lands decks i expect to come back out in my meta

I guess you're runnig LED dredge right?

[CabalTherapy]

Iona is pretty much gravy, I would have no problem cutting her from the main. Zealot is too good not to run IMO. I almost want to run two.

What would be the best to bring in for destructive purposes? Terastodon? Idk about Angel of Despair. I want Archon in the board too.

If you want an DR target SB, you can play this list: http://www.deckcheck.org/?x=8QRflGWV...lGRfiaiaiaN4vd

Archon is weaker than Chosen and Iona.

[Sunsatzu]

I guess you're runnig LED dredge right?

no, i do not run LED, my list is on page 48, sb on 49. my friends dredge deck i played before making my own, played Iona over Sphinx/Witness and this meant he didnt need the slot for primus/terastodon/despair in his side. although i am keeping that slot in my side as you still need it if they find Chasm early. playing Iona basically helps our worst matchups by slowing them down, although you could argue having sphinx to find zealot would win faster, this isnt always the case.

[GoldenCid]

no, i do not run LED, my list is on page 48, sb on 49. my friends dredge deck i played before making my own, played Iona over Sphinx/Witness and this meant he didnt need the slot for primus/terastodon/despair in his side. although i am keeping that slot in my side as you still need it if they find Chasm early. playing Iona basically helps our worst matchups by slowing them down, although you could argue having sphinx to find zealot would win faster, this isnt always the case.

Lands is a awful pairing. I side in terastodon and CoV.

LED dredges allows to get rid a bit easier from storm and lands deck.

[Ozymandias]

Let's say your're playing frogboy's dredge list. How would you sideboard versus a hate package of 2 crypt, 2 wheel of sun and moon, 1 Bojuka Bog (to be fetched by Knight of the Reliquary) and 3 Gaddock Teeg? There are also Equipment and vials in the deck. I ended up cutting 3 Careful Study, 1 Dread Return, and 1 DR target for 3 Grudge and 2 Ray. Chain is not going to get there most of the time, IMO. Would you put it in? The deck was too slow for me to care about Chosen, and Leyline was not something I had room for.

[Arjerei]

On second and on third game, discard has to be selective, thats the reason we run firestorm (Uncontrarrestable discard), not only against aggresive decks, and thats the reason careful never has to been side out, Breakthrough is a card that could cost a game agains graveyard hate, this is the first one who has to been sided out, followed by a dread return and a dread return target, because for the same reason pointed before, strategy changes ons second and third game.

[Ozymandias]

Breakthrough is only going to cost you the game versus hate if you whiff on dredging, in which case study would have been even worse.

[Sunsatzu]

Let's say your're playing frogboy's dredge list. How would you sideboard versus a hate package of 2 crypt, 2 wheel of sun and moon, 1 Bojuka Bog (to be fetched by Knight of the Reliquary) and 3 Gaddock Teeg? There are also Equipment and vials in the deck. I ended up cutting 3 Careful Study, 1 Dread Return, and 1 DR target for 3 Grudge and 2 Ray. Chain is not going to get there most of the time, IMO. Would you put it in? The deck was too slow for me to care about Chosen, and Leyline was not something I had room for.

while im having to guess this is against Zoo/Bant, and i cant find frogboy's list, on the draw, id run rays and chain(over grudge due specifically to Wheel of Sun and Moon), whilst siding out breakhroughs and therapies. on the play however id side in grudge for emergency crypts, and either go for turn 2 win or early therapy for wheel or teeg. prob siding out studies or ichorids since youre going for the quick win.

[Izor]

I don't know frogboy's list, so I can only say what I would board with my list.

+4 Nature's Claim, +3 Firestorm, +1 Ancient Grudge
-4 Careful Study, -1 Golgari Thug, -1 Tarnished Citadel, -1 Cabal Therapy, -1 Ichorid

But that might also vary. I don't really know the opposing deck now, only some facts. And I also left out whether I'm on the draw or on the play.

[MrSoze]

Hey guys,

I finished 15th at SCG KC this past weekend with Non-LED Dredge. Decklist available here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=36127

Went 6-2, 1 loss to a friend playing Shelldrazi (I'm pretty sure the only way to consistently win this match is to shoot the opponent in the head with a .44 Magnum, which I don't recommend due to both the criminal charges and the possibility that your DCI membership could get suspended), and to AJ Sacher's NOBant after I mulled to 5 in Game 2 and punted TERRIBLY in game 3. All of the other matchups were against various aggro/tempo decks, and none were very close; I 2-0'd 3 Merfolk decks, although I can't really say that the players were the best I've ever seen. One of them, in fact, in game 2 went Island, Mutavault, Standstill, and seemed shocked when I didn't just pick up my cards. When he broke the Standstill 6 turns later against my 6 zombie tokens, I dumped most of my deck in the yard and killed him on the next turn. Another zoo player 'obviously' boarded out his STP's against my Zombie tokens and was taken down by Grave-trolls. No one seems to know the right lines of play against Dredge.

I liked my main deck a lot, but I hated my sideboard; I know for a fact that I was guilty of overkilling on certain points, i.e. the 4 Chain of Vapor. Am looking for a suggestive sideboard with SOME possible combo hate, because I felt helpless against Shelldrazi outside of Cabal Therapy and praying that he mulled into oblivion.

[Sunsatzu]

I liked my main deck a lot, but I hated my sideboard; I know for a fact that I was guilty of overkilling on certain points, i.e. the 4 Chain of Vapor. Am looking for a suggestive sideboard with SOME possible combo hate, because I felt helpless against Shelldrazi outside of Cabal Therapy and praying that he mulled into oblivion.

my only md diff is -1 CT, -1 Ichorid*; +1 FKZ, +1 SoLT*, so my sb'ing should be pretty close to yours


4 Chain of Vapor, 1 Nature's Claim/4 Nature's Claim, 1 Ray of Revelation

i play the former because more lands produce blue, i do not play Firestorm for Zoo(Teeg), and there is R/b Goblins with Leylines in my meta. i have noticed though that the japs prefer the latter, as do some 'pros'.

4 Ancient Grudge
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Cabal Therapy/FKZ*
1 Ichoird/SoLT*/Iona/'filler'
1 terastodon/primus/despair/razer

your everyday necessities, i only play FKZ main because i have storm and lands to deal with on a consistant basis

2 Unmask/Duress

my bread and butter vs combo, its not much, but 6 discard spells total help to keep mulliganing to a minumum, consistantly giving either disruption or the turn 2 win.

btw my main deck is on page 48, with my basic sb'ing(its not entirely correct) being on page 49.

[Anusien]

Hey guys,

I finished 15th at SCG KC this past weekend with Non-LED Dredge. Decklist available here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=36127

Congrats! While more of you putting up results makes things harder for the rest of us, it is a validation of sorts.

No one seems to know the right lines of play against Dredge.

This is basically the exact reason to play Dredge. Aside from no one packing enough hate, you hit the nail on the head. Also, Natural Order decks can be a really poor matchup because of War Monk, killing Bridges, getting giant guys and having a lot of relevant disruption.

I liked my main deck a lot, but I hated my sideboard; I know for a fact that I was guilty of overkilling on certain points, i.e. the 4 Chain of Vapor. Am looking for a suggestive sideboard with SOME possible combo hate, because I felt helpless against Shelldrazi outside of Cabal Therapy and praying that he mulled into oblivion.

Your maindeck is pretty much right. I like the 4th Careful Study, and I have the 4th Dread Return in the sideboard. Considering where most other Dredge players are, these are quibbling differences.
You are totally right about the overkill. It's probably that you just didn't know what to do and packed extra hate. If you want other cards, you could consider:
Unmask, Force of Will, Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Sanctity, Firestorm (not against combo, but still relevant).
Against Tendrils I bring in the Ancestor's Chosen in addition to the FKZ. I also have a Sphinx of Lost Truths to make that plan better when I need it and bring it in. It's going to be a tough matchup no matter what you do though.

[Hitman82]

Went 6-2, 1 loss to a friend playing Shelldrazi (I'm pretty sure the only way to consistently win this match is to shoot the opponent in the head with a .44 Magnum, which I don't recommend due to both the criminal charges and the possibility that your DCI membership could get suspended)

My experience has been really different. I've never lost to this deck and it wasn't even close. Are you sure he didn't just have the nuts against you? The faster combo decks are a problem but Shelldrazi, or whatever it's called, seemed terrible and slow. If you want to sideboard a card against combo, you should consider Leyline of Sanctity since it also blanks things like Tormod's Crypt and Nihil Spellbomb.