[DTB] Vial Goblins

[GoboLord]

If something gets Removed (Exiled) from the game, Wort cannot get it back.

That's not what he meant.
He was describing the following scenario:
* play Crafter, champion Matron
* when Lightning Crafter is removed/destroyed Matron comes into play again
* fetch Wort with Matron
* Wort gets you your Crafter back

@ Vandalize: I had the same idea (adding Crafter). But right now I'm totally droping the B splash and the heavy creatures. Reason: if the meta is flooded by control and aggro decks we can just do what goblins can do best: being fast. We have to play the control part against aggro and the aggro part against control and combo, that's why I added some speed to my list with 3 Chieftains-

Another topic:
What do you guys think of integrating the Kiki-Jiki/Perstermite-combo to the deck:

//Lands [23]
4 Wasteland
7 Fetchlands
3 Volcanic Island
2 Soaring Seacliff NEW!!
7 Mountain

//Core [25]
-1 SGC

//Others [5+7]
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Stingscourger

4 Pestermite NEW!!
3 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

//Sideboard [15]
4 Leyline otV
4 Chalice otV
2 Echoing Truth NEW!!
2 Hibernation NEW!!
3 Spell Pierce NEW!!

Perstermite's pros and cons:

+ combo part
+ can act as a "removal" (although it doesn't remove creature in the classical way).
+ can do tricks with Aether Vial
+ can be a way to defeat Moat
- it isn't a Goblin
- requires 7 slot (counting KJ) to be really effective
- doesn't completely remove/bounce/destroy creatures
- has high manacosts in comparison to other removal


The whole lists is less about removing creatures but it relies on sneaking lackeys and piledriver through with e.g. Soaring Seacliff. This way of dealin with creatures is less effecetive than the traditional way (burning them). Because of this the number of cards that ensure that lackey and piledriver can go their way is increased from the traditional ~7 to 11 (2 Seacliffs, 4 Pestermite, 5 goblin-removal).
Blue gives us the opportunity to run cards in board that are effective in dealing with problematic cards and MUs:
* Echoing Truth - additional removal, Humility, Moat, Jitte, Solitary confinement, Zombie-Tokens (Dredge)
* Hibernation - obviously every green permanent (therefore good against Enchantress)
* Spell Pierce - storm-combo, Jitte, Humility, Moat etc.

What do you think?

[arebennian]

I think that the Pestermite portion of the idea is a shit idea. If you want evasion, stick with black and use 'cover of darkness'. I think your better off adopting a portion of the 'Goblin Champion's' combo. All goblins = more synergy.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?12248-[Deck]-Goblin-Champions

Seacliffs are an interesting idea. They have been discussed on this board before. If you are running them then you must take full advantage and run 4 in conjunction with some number of Instigators.

Edit: Intentionally provocative just to reinforce the absolute in a fun way. No offence intended.

[ScatmanX]

I think the idea should be tested, but I don't think it will work well...
Instead of Pestermites, you could use 2 Lightning Crafter ans 2 Skirk Prospector, that combo with Kiki for "infinite" damage.

And instead of using Seacliff, I'd rather use Smoldering Spires.

[TossUsToLions]

Since we are on the topic of trying out new cards, i was wondering if anyone has yet to try out [CARD]Rancor[/CARD]. It may seem ridiculous, but first turn lackey, second turn rancor will usually get him through. But best of all, a Rancor on a Piledriver is absurd. A trampling 15/2 pro-blue critter is pretty tough to deal with. I would probably take out Stingscourgers/Warren Weirdings for them (because it can be used instead of removal to get a Lackey through on turn two) and maybe add in some Warren Instigators.

What does everyone think?

[markbris]

Since we are on the topic of trying out new cards, i was wondering if anyone has yet to try out [CARD]Rancor[/CARD]. It may seem ridiculous, but first turn lackey, second turn rancor will usually get him through. But best of all, a Rancor on a Piledriver is absurd. A trampling 15/2 pro-blue critter is pretty tough to deal with. I would probably take out Stingscourgers/Warren Weirdings for them (because it can be used instead of removal to get a Lackey through on turn two) and maybe add in some Warren Instigators.

What does everyone think?

Most lackeys die to removal, blockers is a secondary concern imo. You will also get insta 2 for 1'ed when you play the rancor and they stp him in response.

[jrw1985]

Since we are on the topic of trying out new cards, i was wondering if anyone has yet to try out [CARD]Rancor[/CARD]. It may seem ridiculous, but first turn lackey, second turn rancor will usually get him through. But best of all, a Rancor on a Piledriver is absurd. A trampling 15/2 pro-blue critter is pretty tough to deal with. I would probably take out Stingscourgers/Warren Weirdings for them (because it can be used instead of removal to get a Lackey through on turn two) and maybe add in some Warren Instigators.

What does everyone think?

Fuck yeah, dude. I fully approve of Rancor testing, and we've already seen Green splash as a super viable option for Gobbos. Throw a list together and let us know how the testing goes. Its reusability is great with Piledriver, Instigator, and could potentially make bigger bruisers playable. 8 non-goblins slots should still leave a deck that's 50% goblin cards, so I think it's worth trying.

[ScatmanX]

I playtested against a friend today with the Ru list GobboLord posted, and I must say, Kiki Jiki and Pespermite are a lot fun...
I don't know if any good, or better than traditional, but sure are fun to play.

[jrw1985]

Quick Question: Would you keep a hand like this vs control or combo?:

Mountain
Mountain
Lackey
Lackey
Gempalm
Wasteland
Vial

I'm inclined to trow it away because there's absolutely nothing in this hand to put any pressure on.

I kept a hand like this today against a GB deck with Deeds and discard. I lost on the play after completely failing to draw into anything relevant.

I also lost a match against TES today. Game 1 I out played her but just got unlucky when I failed to get a Sharpshooter or Matron. When will Empty the Warrens players realize they can't attack with all 10 goblin tokens when you have a Vial at 1? Game 2 I made a huge tactical mistake by not mulling into combo hate. Instead I kept a strong goblin hand with Lackey, Matron, Ringleader, Warcheif and lands. I died turn 2.

Here's where my thought process went awry... In the match prior I played Lands, and after winning G1 blew them out t3 G2 (Lackey, Piledriver, Seigegang)! In that game I had kept a strong Goblin hand without GY hate, since I knew I could draw into it (Tormod's Crypt) and take the game that way. Fast Forward to G2 against TES and I found myself in a similar situation- Solid opening hand but no hate. I figured that I could draw into it in that situation too. The reason this was wrong was Lands is a control deck that gives you time to find answers. TES just kills you too quickly when it works. I could have won had I mulled to hate (Chalice at 0). Instead I tried to outrace a deck easily capable of a T2 kill.

The moral of the story: Mulligan strategies work differently depending on what deck you're facing.

List time!

Decks to mull into hate against-
Dredge
TES
ANT
Belcher
Combo Elves
Painter's Grindstone/Bomberman

Decks OK to draw into hate against-
Lands
Enchantress
Staxx

Notice a pattern? Basically, explosive decks capable of killing in the first 3 turns in a non-interactive way need proactive answers (AKA you need to mull to some hate). Control decks can be dealt with more loosely, because even if they shut you down for a while, you can still blow them out with a well timed topdeck.

Also, I have been running a Mogg War-Marshall free deck, and in half my matches today I found myslef wanting them to chump block hordes of tokens.

[Mantis]

Since we are on the topic of trying out new cards, i was wondering if anyone has yet to try out [CARD]Rancor[/CARD]. It may seem ridiculous, but first turn lackey, second turn rancor will usually get him through. But best of all, a Rancor on a Piledriver is absurd. A trampling 15/2 pro-blue critter is pretty tough to deal with. I would probably take out Stingscourgers/Warren Weirdings for them (because it can be used instead of removal to get a Lackey through on turn two) and maybe add in some Warren Instigators.

I think it could potentially be a brilliant idea or absolute garbage.

Rancor could tremendously help against Zoo. Your useless 1/1 dorks, that were previously chumping their Kird Apes and Nacatls are now trading with them and then Rancor comes back! However, a deck like Zoo runs a shitton of removal so they can easily 2 for 1 you.

Rancor on Instigator gives me wet dreams however. I will definately try out Rancor in an Instigator build. Let me know how your testing goes!

[ricowaits]

Morning Gang,

Heading off to an event today and I'm stuck on the final 3 slots of my sideboard.



SB
3 Blood Moon
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Anarchy
2 REB
2 Pyroblast
3 : ?????

I'm flipping a coin between Chalice and Jitte any quick advice?

[Pinoy Goblin]

ricowaits
Morning Gang,

Heading off to an event today and I'm stuck on the final 3 slots of my sideboard.



SB
3 Blood Moon
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Anarchy
2 REB
2 Pyroblast
3 : ?????

I'm flipping a coin between Chalice and Jitte any quick advice?

I prefer Goblin Balloon Brigade as your final sb slot so you can have blockers for flying creatures kidding Aside, I would choose Chalice over jitte. It depends on your meta there but I would rather put thorn of amethyst for storm/combo/burn decks or pithing needles because of its flexibility.

[TossUsToLions]

Morning Gang,

Heading off to an event today and I'm stuck on the final 3 slots of my sideboard.



SB
3 Blood Moon
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Anarchy
2 REB
2 Pyroblast
3 : ?????

I'm flipping a coin between Chalice and Jitte any quick advice?

If you're playing monored and it's an unknown meta, i would play 3 Pithing Needle or 3 Pyrokenisis. Both of these cards are great against a lot of different decks.

So this is what i threw together for my deck that utilizes Rancor. It could be a while to see any results because I'm starting school again and engineering leaves very little time for testing. When i do test i have to play MWS, which i hate...

Anyways, the list:

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Aether Vial

4 Warren Instigator
3 Rancor

3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Taiga
6 Fetches
5 Mountain

[GoblinZ]

Maybe Goblin Tinkerer is a good choice，especially if you run mono red。。。it can deal with jitte，cranial plating，dreadnought，vial or top etc。。。

[ricowaits]

Maybe Goblin Tinkerer is a good choice，especially if you run mono red。。。it can deal with jitte，cranial plating，dreadnought，vial or top etc。。。

I ended up going with Jitte as I figured Zoo and Merfolk would be big. Ended up being a mix of everything.

Round #1 - Bant. Went three games. I had lethal on the board next turn he EOT Brainstorms, snags E-tutor for Absolute Law and snuck a Goyf with Jitte through for the win.

Round # 2 - DoomShow - Game # 3 - Rips his only basic island to SnT thru a seemingly game ending Blood Moon.

Round # 3 - Counterbalance. 3rd turn CB + Top. Topped with x2 Goyf and 3 STP/PtE to remove what business I had. Game #2 was a complete slaughter , Trip Goyf 2 BEB, 2 STP and a well timed daze.

0-3 Drop


15 Mountains
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port

4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 Ringleader
4 Warchief
4 Gempalm
3 Matron
2 SGC
3 Stingscourger
2 Prospector
1 Sharpshooter

3 Goblin Grenade

SB
3 Blood Moon
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Anarchy
2 REB
2 Pyroblast
3 Jitte


Goblin Grenade did its job eating a War Monk game 1 and two Goyfs along the way, sadly it just wasn't enough. After todays results the only way to play goblins is with the black splash. Perish is required no question about it.

[jrw1985]

Goblins just won SCG Kansas City! A second deck also made top 4. The 2 Goblins decks faced off in the Quarterfinals, and the winner beat Merfolk in the finals.

Ah... a world without Survival.

[TossUsToLions]

Goblins just won SCG Kansas City! A second deck also made top 4. The 2 Goblins decks faced off in the Quarterfinals, and the winner beat Merfolk in the finals.

Ah... a world without Survival.

Triple Pyrokenisis was insane, ha.

Just from this tourney, I'm happy to see where Gobbos stands in the meta. There were apparently A LOT of folk, some counterbalance, and a very little amount of Zoo. This is great news for us, but the Death and Taxes lists scare me...

[JonBarber]

There was only 4 goblins decks in the whole tourny. Expect a lot more zoo, Death and Taxes, and thresh decks.

[LostButSeeking]

Do you guys have the list? I was bumming around SCG , but I can't find it.

[TossUsToLions]

Do you guys have the list? I was bumming around SCG , but I can't find it.

I don't think it's up yet. Check back tomorrow, they should have it up in the morning.

I know it's probably too early to tell, but does the black splash seem like the best build right now?

[LostButSeeking]

I like the black list for a number of reasons. It gives you huge amounts of flexibility. For one thing, it gives you goblin removal in Warren Wierding, which is KILLER. If you want to beat storm combo it gives you Cabal Therapy (which, while not PERFECT, certainly eases a very rough matchup) as well as helping against that super ugly, super common matchup that is Zoo with Perishes. Now, this is obviously a metagame choice. If your common matchups are instead CounterThopters (which commonly runs moat) and Enchantress (ditto) I'd probably consider a green splash (for grip) or a white one (for disenchant). Going into a blind tournament though, in my opinion, the black splash is the strongest.