[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Fatal]

Good question ! (probably i forgot about it..), Loam engine is fine vs decks with multiple fetch effects and duals, also helps with wastelands and so on, but i didn't met any of this kind of deck so i side it out mostly. Tariff looks friendly :)

Loam engine stabilize mana, and is good fed for Goyfs and KotR's. Also with Quarter can be had issue to opponent, i think it will more fit after meta warp pre survival.

[LegacyDan]

changed my SB a little, there was a slight change in my Meta. 3x Kitchen Finks has to be my new favorite sb choice. They are great in my 3 whatever slots.

[Penguinizer]

Das Bump:

I'm going to go to a random Legacy tournament tomorrow. I'm gonna run a fairly baseline Leonin Arbiter list consisting of:
MD:
Lands: 21
11x Plains
4x Karakas
3x Rishadan Port
3x Flagstone of Trokair

Mobs: 25
4x Mother of Runes
4x Serra Avenger
4x Leonin Arbiter
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Jötun Grunt
4x Flickerwisp
3x Mangara of Corondor

Spells:14
4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
Umezawa's Jitte
Sword of Light and Shadow
Sword of Fire and Ice
3x Oblivion Ring

Total: 60

SB:
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Wing Shards
2x Cataclysm
1x Jötun Grunt

Total: 15

Keep in mind I own no Wastelands, and didn't manage to borrow any. Is there anything else that's immediately foreseeable as a mistake.

[4eak]

Flagstones and Leonin don't play nice. Why play Flagstones for just 2 Cataclysm? SFM doesn't play nice either, but that is more acceptable to me.

-3 Flagstones
+3 Plains

I think 3x Jotun grunt in the main is just too much. Drawing multiples of that card is rarely acceptable.

You absolutely must have the 4th Port. It sucks to not have the Wastelands.

-1 Grunt
+1 Port

I'm probably in the minority here, but I think the 4th Mangara and SFM are very much worth it. I'm also not much a fan of Arbiter. I'd consider:

-4 Leonin Arbiter
+2 Aven Mindcensor
+1 SFM
+1 Mangara



peace,
4eak

[mrjumbo03]

I won't go with 3 flagstones... unless your meta is filled with staxx and pox because it may end up being disadvantageous to you... 2 is the number for this deck, even with MB cataclysms...

[Penguinizer]

The Flagstones+Arbiter thing escaped me.

Also, I don't own more Ports. The store only had 3. I could probably get 1 wasteland in time, since turns out they have 1. I have no extra SFMs or Mangaras either...

-3 Flagstones
+2 Plains
+1 Wastelands

[4eak]

At the very least, that 3rd Grunt has to go. What cards do you have to replace it? Even a 4th O-ring merits play before the Grunt.

I'm not even really a fan of Jotun Grunt altogether though. It is the least of the cards in your 60, imho. I'm also likely in the minority on this one: consider Elspeth. Even Kitchen Finks or Ethersworn Canonist in the main are better than Grunt, imho. Doubling up 'anti-search' effects, running 2 Aven Mindcensors in addition to your Arbiters, seems better than Grunt to me as well.

Despite the tricks that can be had with Grunt, I've been let down by that card too many times. It is all too often a white Keldon Marauders.



peace,
4eak

[Penguinizer]

I'll cut one Grunt, I suppose I could add a random Elspeth or mindcensor to the list, or I could get a heavily played Wasteland and add that as well.

Options:
4th O-ring
Random Elspeth
Random Mindcensor.

I just picked the random Mindcensor. It can still carry a sword while flying, and might be useful depending on the meta. Sadly, I have no idea how it'll form with the survival ban. I'm expecting 1-2 Storm at most, if even that. At least 1-2 Dreadstill, some goblins, some zoo, lots of various tier 1.5-tier 2 decks.

[Justin]

I'm not too sure about the sideboard, but here is my list. I don't think that Leonin Arbiter or Aven Mindcensor make the cut anymore in a post-Survival Legacy. For me, the MVP of the deck is usually Stoneforge Mystic. I also like the single Elspeth in this deck.

// Lands
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
10 [MR] Plains
4 [LG] Karakas
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [TSP] Mangara of Corondor
4 [EVE] Flickerwisp
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
2 [LRW] Goldmeadow Harrier

// Spells
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
4 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [CHK] Ghostly Prison

[Penguinizer]

I didn't like Leonin Arbiter at all. I kept on siding them out constantly. I'm probably going to splash green as well when I can. Until then, I'll run the Enlightened Tutor SB build with Goldmeadow Harriers.

Here's my GW plan:
// Lands
2 [UG] Forest
2 [RAV] Plains (3)
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [B] Savannah
4 [LG] Karakas

// Creatures
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [EVE] Flickerwisp
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [FNM] Mother of Runes
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [TSP] Mangara of Corondor
3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
4 [OV] Swords to Plowshares
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 1 [U] Meekstone
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [SOA] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 3 [FNM] Wing Shards
SB: 3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor

The toolbox could use other cards, and the manabase could also use fixing.

[4eak]

I have played extensively with the Green splash. Originally, I thought it would be a better version of DnT. In the end, I found that the proper evolution of the green splash turned into something which wasn't DnT at all, but rather a GW tempo deck which eschewed all the hallmarks of a DnT deck.

If you are going to bend the manabase over, at least do it for more than QPM, Teeg, and Canopy (which is a card I don't take lightly). I think the best DnT deck (which actually plays cards like Mangara, Flickerwisp, and Ports) are mono white. I think there is a strong GW tempo deck to be made, but in the end, it isn't going to be DnT.



peace,
4eak

[Penguinizer]

I'm eventually going to also add Goyfs. I'm also thinking of cutting the Jötun Grunts and something and adding some Knight of the Reliquarys. Removing Jötun Grunt from the SB would also add some new things to the SB.

EDIT: There are supposed to be 3x Krosan Grips as well. Forgot about them.

[mrjumbo03]

Lewis Laskin in the top4 of SCG Kansas using GW Taxes

Wow what a sick topdeck from horizon canopy...
G2 and dead on the attack, he popped horizon canopy to draw swords, the only card that would let him live!

Edit: He just lost...boo...
Merfolk and Gobs in the Finals

[from Cairo]

The toolbox could use other cards, and the manabase could also use fixing.

Two things that jump out are that you can cut a basic Forest for an additional basic Plains. Your Green splash isn't that heavy there is no double Green requirements and for instance fetching a Forest than drawing another or having two in your top 10 cards is like having an extra colorless land instead of a useful basic. Mangara, Avenger and Flickerwisp all need double White, I think think this swap would help smooth things out.

The second thing would be swapping Ethersworn Canonist #2 for a Thorn of Amethyst. When playing UW Tempo I really liked having diverse options against fighting combo and with the Enlightened Tutor toolbox this allows you to grab whichever is better for a given board state or if you draw one you can tutor the other to supplement. Canonists' ability isn't good in multiples anyway, and getting both pieces down makes it that much harder for a storm combo player to remove either/both.

[nwong]

@Penguinizer: the only thing I'd be worrying about is possibly taking too many pings from tapping Canopies for mana.

[Star|Scream]

Hey, any advice on this deck for a meta where the top decks feature the following cards: Dreadnought, standstill, mishra's factory, counterbalance, SDT

also included are zoo, belcher, ANT

am I better off taking fish?

[from Cairo]

Hey, any advice on this deck for a meta where the top decks feature the following cards: Dreadnought, standstill, mishra's factory, counterbalance, SDT

also included are zoo, belcher, ANT

You might want to max out Wastelands if expecting Standstills and Factories. Flickerwisp is good against Dreadnought. The Green splash gives you Qasali Pridemage that's good against Dreadnought and CB. If you're staying mono-White you probably are going to want 3-4 Oblivion Rings and maybe squeeze some Devout Witnesses into the SB to help you handle the abundance of Artifacts/Enchantments.

Maxing Stoneforge Mystic helps against Zoo. Kitchen Finks is also a good option for the SB.

Mindbreak Trap/Orim's Chant and Ethersworn Canonist would be good options versus Storm.

[t3hwo0ki3]

Hey D&T bretheren, I'm currently working on 2 separate builds with different play styles and metagaming in mind. I would like to share them with you for critique. If it deserves it, be harsh. I've nearly finished my 'D&T' binder with essentially an extended card pool for different archetypes and metagaming.

Anyhow, the lists with brief explanations:

Death&Taxes: Disruptive Variant-75 cards
Critters: 25
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Mangara of Corondor
3 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
Spells: 7
3 Mana Tithe
4 Swords to Plowshares
Relics: 6
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Aether Vial
Mana: 22
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Karakas
8 Plains
Sideboard: 15
3 Wing Shards
3 Cataclysm
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Runed Halo
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Aura of Silence

This build aims to work with the standard mana denial package along with Canonists and Tithes mainboard to create some light tempo advantage. So far I've only had the opportunity to test against Goblins, Naya and Deadguy with this build on MWS but Tithe can be a blowout g1 and g2 post-cataclysm. Against Goblins, tithe allows you to nullify crucial plays so you can save your StP for a Piledriver. Against Deadguy, which plays at sorcery-speed for the most part Tithe allows you to disrupt their curve while you slowly poop out more efficient creatures. Tithe can essentially be considered removal 5-7 against fields awash with aggro. The soft-lock between Tithe&Canonist occasionally works in your favor if you're denying them mana and playing defensively. Turn 1 MOM or Vial can be a blowout on the following turn stopping Tarmogoyf/Pridemage/*any 2-drop* or when they get the nuts with 3 1-drops out on turn 2. I've often heard the same Tithe argument as playing [card]Force Spike[/card] or [card]Mana Leak[/card] 'run 4 or don't run them at all' well D&T is well-known for running 3-ofs cards they want to see often, but don't want to draw as much lategame.

The mainboard Mindcensors allow you to nullify crucial plays much in the same vein as Arbiter, except it can't be played around and doesn't require a vial for the surprise effect. That, and it's a flier to pick up equipment if need be. I'm still not entirely sold on them though, but I really feel it fits the purpose of this specific deck. Now I know most folks believe Mystic should only be played as an x-x split between herself and equipment. But I've found that I often want to see a mystic, but rarely want to open the game with any equipment as to I need to establish board position first. D&T builds tailored to a faster clock can obviously supplement more, as to I'll get to that later. The sideboard is standard D&T with the exception of 2 Wing Shards in the 3 'whatever' slots. I see a decent amount of mono-red, goblins, and naya in 1 of the 3 metas I play at weekly, so having diversified removal in the board is always something I like to have. Sometimes, 4 simply is not enough. Or if I'm playing against Bant or any other aggro list with Countermagic, Shards can be the nuts. Good luck countering all of those storm copies champ ;-)

*note* I am actually thinking of trying +1 Grunt and +3 [card]Weathered Wayfarer[/card] in this build to maximize our [card]Wasteland[/card]s, [card]Flatstones of Trokair[/card]s post-cataclysm and give a bit of a leg-up against a more controlling metagame. What do you guys think?


Death&Taxes: Aggressive Variant-75 cards


Critters: 26
2 Stonecloaker
3 Flickerwisp
3 Mangara of Corondor
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
4 Kor Duelist
Spells: 4
4 Swords to Plowshares
Relics: 8
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Mask of Memory
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Aether Vial
Mana: 22
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Karakas
11 Plains
Sideboard: 15
2 Condemn
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Enlightened Tutor
1 Aura of Silence
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle

This deck's purpose should be obvious. Forgo a bit of the control elements to devote to a faster clock. The Wasteland count is up to 4 and I've added [card]Mishra's Factory[/card] essentially bringing up my threat count to 29. We still have Wisp shenanigans and Mangara lock available to us, just with more efficient beaters. The equipment count is up to 4 to supplement [card]Kor Duelist[/card] along with running the 3rd Grunt with the inclusion of [card]Mask of Memory[/card]. This can help grunt stick around a lot longer and provide this deck some much-needed card selection. I'm going to be doing extensive testing running Mask, so don't get too excited about its inclusion.

I'm going to avoid beating a dead horse here by saying [card]Stonecloaker[/card] is:
1. Aggressive
2. Tricks
3. A flier to throw equips on
I hope that's enough explanation for my 2-of.

The sideboard aims to make up in games 2 and 3 with whatever the deck lacks G1. I'm running Finks in lieu of Forge-Tender because he's more aggressive and persist is retarded. The life gain coupled with [card]Condem[/card] should really help shore up any troublesome matches where Mangara and Stonecloaker aren't as stellar as I'd like. I am seeing why a sideboarded [card]Sword of Body and Mind[/card] is worthless. Decks where I'd side it in are relying on their graveyards being full. So it's synergistic in that respect. Maybe we'll find a use for it, maybe not. But not atm. [/spoiler]

I'm not bragging here, but I really spent a lot of time on this. Please be thorough and civil if you disagree or simply don't like something.

Thanks all!
-Aaron

*EDIT*

I'm sorry for the long post folks. Does this site offer deck, card, and spoiler tags? I checked the forum rules post but couldn't find any information.

[LegacyDan]

Hey Aaron, its Dan. I like your lists, the more aggressive one seems like fun. The card advantage in the form of Mask of Memory is interesting, but have you considered Lightning Greaves? It serves as attack and defense what with the Haste and Shroud.

As for Kor Duelist, I suggest running 2 or 3 never 4. The card is SICK with anything on it, but otherwise he is just an Eager Cadet.

[t3hwo0ki3]

Dan,
Good looking out on the Kor Duelist. I posted that list on Sal. and folks just dismiss stuff out of hand. You'd consider only running him as a 2-of? What do you suggest in an aggressive build with 2 available slots? Harrier? BFT? Isamaru seems like a solid choice..

Thanks!