[Deck] Merfolk

[kingtk3]

@Julian23 and SlopeeJ:
at the moment I sided out the Sovereigns because i was caring too much about the mana curve; but i think you're right, i should have sided (considering the new side)

on the play:
-4 FoW, -4 Cursecatcher, -2 Merfolk Sovereing
+3 Submerge, +2 Mind Harness, +2 Jitte, +3 Relic

On the draw:
-4 FoW, -4 Cursecatcher, -3 Daze, -1 Merfolk Sovereing
+3 Submerge, +2 Mind Harness, +2 Jitte, +3 Relic, +2 BeB

However the use of the BeB depends on the Zoo build, since there are some which don't run Lavamancers and, more in general, it depends in the amount of red cards they play (in one game i had one BeB in hand and i never had a chence of using it while my opponent was killing me).

I still, however, think that Jitte are a good call versus Zoo: having vial allows to cast Jitte and a creature the same turn and running Spellstrutter Sprite offers a protection versus their removal. An active Jitte isn't GG but surely put the race in your favor, especially on a flying creature, and if they StP a sprite equipped with Jitte they have wasted a removal for one of the lords.

Don't misunderstand, I think the matchup is still in Zoo Favor (maybe 55-45) but now I've found it at least playable and not an automatic loss.
In a meta full of Zoo a discourage running Merfolk, but in a more balanced meta I think I'd play Merfolk because it's the most consistent deck of the format and, aside Zoo, can pull easy victory versus most of the other decks.

Thanks.

[kujotfmp]

I have been slowing building fish for awhile, and am thinking about ways to innovate and adapt (re: bored at work). Rather than reinventing the wheel, I was curious if anyone had tried to smash a countertop package into merfolk. Part of me thinks it could be pretty good, but I have to assume if it was any good it would have been done by now. Feel free to berate my ignorance. : p

[Rekk]

I have been slowing building fish for awhile, and am thinking about ways to innovate and adapt (re: bored at work). Rather than reinventing the wheel, I was curious if anyone had tried to smash a countertop package into merfolk. Part of me thinks it could be pretty good, but I have to assume if it was any good it would have been done by now. Feel free to berate my ignorance. : p

Not to break your heart I talked to alot of people about it and tried it out for a bit the curve is way to focused on 2 drops and the space is so tight that it doesn't really work well if you get it to work though please post a list its kinda been something i wanted to do.

ps. why the hell does this deck only have one star?!?!

[kingtk3]

I have been slowing building fish for awhile, and am thinking about ways to innovate and adapt (re: bored at work). Rather than reinventing the wheel, I was curious if anyone had tried to smash a countertop package into merfolk. Part of me thinks it could be pretty good, but I have to assume if it was any good it would have been done by now. Feel free to berate my ignorance. : p

Personally I don't think Counterbalance helps Merfolk a lot since
1: Counterbalance is a strategy versus spells to cast which often is supported by spot removal for what you can't counter; the problem is that the deck is lacking those removal
2: Counterbalance helps you to win matchup you already are supposed to win
3: Counterbalance brings the game in mid and long term, while merfolk wants to close in short-mid before the opponent's better card quality become relevant

However, these are only suppositions that I haven't prove in testing, so I could be totally wrong. If I were to build a list to test I would start with the following:

4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
13 Island

4 Æther Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 COUNTERBALANCE
3 SENSEI'S DIVINING TOP

4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Coralhelm Commander
3 Cursecatcher
3 Merfolk Sovereign
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

CC0: 21
CC1: 10
CC2: 17
CC3: 9
CC4: 0
CC5: 4

Cheers.

[Horto]

Is Stifle-Wasteland package considered bad nowadays? I still find it to be quite effective. Yeah, Stifle can be dead card but usually will find target later. Especially in Zoo matchup, I think it should be reconsidered. Stifling Pridemage is also good play, I think. It's known fact that Stifle-Wasteland makes Dazes better, so wouldn't it be same case with SB Divert? I find it amusing to deflect Zoo's burn into their own dome.

Other one I've been pondering with is Ankh of Mishra in monoU builds. Fecthing a land isn't so hot anymore when it costs 5 life. This should be played instead of Stifle, of course. But to kinda answering to my own question; Pridemage on main and Krip on board makes this dead, right?

[Syaoran]

Hey, I've been building and toying around with various merfolk builds for awhile, currently trying to build it, and am looking for a bit of help. Here's what I have so far:


//Creatures
x4 Coralhelm Commanders
x4 Lord of Atlantis
x4 Merrow Reejery
x4 Silvergill adept
x4 Cursecatcher (considering cutting it down to 3.)
x2 Kira, Great Glass-spinner (testing again and again with it, I've never wished it was a lord, and the protection/flying aspects have been invaluable)

Up for consideration:
1-3x Merfolk Sovereign. (not really seeing the room for it)

//Spells
x4 FoW
x4 Dazes (Not too happy with them- everyone seems to play around them, and in most tests, I simply end up pitching them)
x4 Stifles (I've found them more to be anti-combo than real land/mana screwing along with wastes.. thinking of cutting down/out)
x2 Echoing Truth (been very impressed with how this has worked)
x4 Aether Vials

//Lands
x3 MutaVault
x4 Wasteland
x13 Island

//Sideboard (Still completely in flux)
x4 Tormod's Crypt.
x2 Propaganda
x1 Llawan
x2 Hibernation
x2 Umezawa's Jitte
x2 Submerge
x1 Misdirection
x1 Divert


Now, I've been thinking of swapping a Wasteland for a Mutavault, as I've been liking how they preform a little more than waste. People see Merfolk, and they automatically start playing it safe with regards to their lands. Redundancies to stop wastes, being careful about stifle, playing around daze permanently. My Meta's extremely diverse (Or was the last time I was there)- most of the people there own multiple decks, giving range to a one-of everything, to one time 80% of the people there were running graveyard shenanigans. A slightly "larger" but still local tournament attracted close to 100 people, so there's no real "this meta is heavy with ___" to make. As fish is well-known, and having FoW for combo, I was thinking -2 Daze, -1 Waste, -1 Stifles, +1 Mutavault, and I'm not sure what else I want to add in. I played around with standstill, but as was mentioned earlier, it's more of a "win-more" card than anything else. I played with a playset of Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard, and was impressed with how well they protected me. Even not being in the color, I'm toying with the idea of having them in the SB, so I can cut dazes mainboard.

So Help. What do you suggest running, for what reason?

[Rekk]

Hey, I've been building and toying around with various merfolk builds for awhile, currently trying to build it, and am looking for a bit of help. Here's what I have so far:


//Creatures
x4 Coralhelm Commanders
x4 Lord of Atlantis
x4 Merrow Reejery
x4 Silvergill adept
x4 Cursecatcher (considering cutting it down to 3.)
x2 Kira, Great Glass-spinner (testing again and again with it, I've never wished it was a lord, and the protection/flying aspects have been invaluable)

Up for consideration:
1-3x Merfolk Sovereign. (not really seeing the room for it)

//Spells
x4 FoW
x4 Dazes (Not too happy with them- everyone seems to play around them, and in most tests, I simply end up pitching them)
x4 Stifles (I've found them more to be anti-combo than real land/mana screwing along with wastes.. thinking of cutting down/out)
x2 Echoing Truth (been very impressed with how this has worked)
x4 Aether Vials

//Lands
x3 MutaVault
x4 Wasteland
x13 Island

//Sideboard (Still completely in flux)
x4 Tormod's Crypt.
x2 Propaganda
x1 Llawan
x2 Hibernation
x2 Umezawa's Jitte
x2 Submerge
x1 Misdirection
x1 Divert


Now, I've been thinking of swapping a Wasteland for a Mutavault, as I've been liking how they preform a little more than waste. People see Merfolk, and they automatically start playing it safe with regards to their lands. Redundancies to stop wastes, being careful about stifle, playing around daze permanently. My Meta's extremely diverse (Or was the last time I was there)- most of the people there own multiple decks, giving range to a one-of everything, to one time 80% of the people there were running graveyard shenanigans. A slightly "larger" but still local tournament attracted close to 100 people, so there's no real "this meta is heavy with ___" to make. As fish is well-known, and having FoW for combo, I was thinking -2 Daze, -1 Waste, -1 Stifles, +1 Mutavault, and I'm not sure what else I want to add in. I played around with standstill, but as was mentioned earlier, it's more of a "win-more" card than anything else. I played with a playset of Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard, and was impressed with how well they protected me. Even not being in the color, I'm toying with the idea of having them in the SB, so I can cut dazes mainboard.

So Help. What do you suggest running, for what reason?

I agree about adding a mutavualt its amazing always i've blocked lackey with it i've used it for the last damage it sneaks in under standstill its just been all around amazing.
if you need the color mana run three wastes if you find yourself fine without it cut an island and have 4 mutavaults 4 wastes
I don't like stifle in merfolk i have no room for it i've been pretty happy with spell pierce
Echoing truth is fantastic holy shit it answers so many things that blue struggles with
aslo if you add in sanctity you have no need for stifle you already have protection from tendrils land that keep a few counter spells for any bounce and BAM you win
i personally love kira and have been displeased with sovereign.
please tell me how merfolk has been treating you i personally love this deck and hope that goblins dies off control comes back up and merfolk becomes amazing again

[Julian23]

Several people have been arguing in favor of Echoing Truth in the maindeck. Here's a though: Wouldn't Rushing River be even better?

End of turn, bounce Knight of the Reliquary and Tarmogoyf, swing for ~10 damage more than you anticipated.

[Rekk]

Several people have been arguing in favor of Echoing Truth in the maindeck. Here's a though: Wouldn't Rushing River be even better?

End of turn, bounce Knight of the Reliquary and Tarmogoyf, swing for ~10 damage more than you anticipated.

It may work because as you mentioned it can handle the more diverse threats but i personally have had a problem with three casting cost spells in merfolk if you are mana screwed you usually need the land

[Syaoran]

I toyed away with wipe away for awhile instead of echoing: as rekk said, it was the 3 CMC that made me not play it more than anything else.

If I took stifles out, what should I put instead?

[Rekk]

I toyed away with wipe away for awhile instead of echoing: as rekk said, it was the 3 CMC that made me not play it more than anything else.

If I took stifles out, what should I put instead?

I have been a huge fan of spell pierce

[kilukru]

Is Stifle-Wasteland package considered bad nowadays? I still find it to be quite effective. Yeah, Stifle can be dead card but usually will find target later. Especially in Zoo matchup, I think it should be reconsidered. Stifling Pridemage is also good play, I think. It's known fact that Stifle-Wasteland makes Dazes better, so wouldn't it be same case with SB Divert? I find it amusing to deflect Zoo's burn into their own dome.

Other one I've been pondering with is Ankh of Mishra in monoU builds. Fecthing a land isn't so hot anymore when it costs 5 life. This should be played instead of Stifle, of course. But to kinda answering to my own question; Pridemage on main and Krip on board makes this dead, right?

Stifle is good, but the deck have a lot of 1 and 2 drop an rarely want to keep mana open just in case stifle could be played on a fetch. The best uses of stifle in merfolk these day are plays like stifling Deed or explosive. It's also quite usefull against combo. In the right meta(ie. rock heavy), it would actully be a descent sideboard card, but a bad meta for fish.

Ankh dosnt play in the deck strategy, it dosnt make your guy's better and does nothing at controling your opponent plays. Ankh would only be good in a dedicated land deprival strategy, and then you would have to play stifle diluthing your deck too much.

You have to understand that fish mainly trie to do 2 things : beat peoples faces and control them just enought to beat theisr faces. When looking at a new card ask yourself, how does this card help one of the 2 aspet of the deck. if your answer is : it add another dimention to the deck , then you have a 3 gameplan pile. 3 gameplan is more versatile, but also less consistent and consistency is one of the main quality of this deck, so in this case that versatility actully play against you!
As an exemple, ill take Saito GP list. He added black, but din'nt changed anything from the maindeck from a classical mono U list. In a vacuum this is bad, it made it mana base much worst. But, he kept everythiong that made this deck good (execpt the stable manabase) while briging him the OPTION to add versatility in the sideboard, so that he would only have it when he needed it.

[Rekk]

I have a tournament today ill post results tonight along with decklist and ill do my best to remember/ write down match ups

[Tacosnape]

RE: Echoing Truth, Rushing River:

All depends on what you want to bounce. Echoing Truth is irreplacable when facing down a swarm of Empty The Warrens tokens. It also costs 1 less, making it a decent little tempo move with Reejereys off the board. Rushing River is big, slow, cumbersome, and generally bad at helping you out of a spot you're already losing, but the double bounces you can get off of it are sometimes just completely sick.

If you're less concerned about noncreature permanents, though, Seal of Removal's still much more efficient. It led to me beating Zoo and two Reanimator decks way back in Atlanta, Saves my lords and Silvergills against control decks, greatly improves your chances of winning superiority under a Standstill, and I never wished it was anything else the whole tournament.

If you're facing a lot of Tarmogoyf/Knight of the Reliquary bullshit, though (And everything I lost to in Atlanta ran Tarmogoyf), try Waterfront Bouncer. He's amazing against big green guys, Emrakul, Peacekeeper, etc, and he's a beater in a pinch. Plus he's second to none at keeping an opposing Jitte at bay. And he's fueled by all the excess lands/Dazes/Aether Vials that suck so hard in the late game. I've been really loving him as of late.

[(nameless one)]

Hey Tacosnape,

How many Bouncers are you running? How does your list look like?

[Syaoran]

So, disliking stifles and standstills (Although I'll probably still keep stifle in the SB), I've been experimenting with a 3-of propaganda. It's done nothing more me in the matchup's that are already good (nor is it really diluting, I've never really wished it would be something else), but it's done a world of good against my bad match ups. Any thoughts? (Note: I also run the white leyline SB, without any white sources, as an extra way to deal with combo so I can afford to have stifles SB as well)

[Rekk]

Someone asked about what to do against deadguy ale i wanted to see if anybody figured anything out in my last tournament the only two matches i lost were the mirror with someone splashing red and deadguy ale when his discard ate my lords.

[Bahamut056]

Ok...I'm going to have to go against the popular choice for a minute here.

I LOVED the 3cmc merfolk in my deck. I haven't had much success with focusing on the 2cmc with coralhelm. I find that he is sometimes harder to kill...but he presents no combat tricks. When I used Kira, sovereign, and wake thrasher I could stick vial up to 3 and then ACTUALLY USE my rejeery. I figure I would rather cast the 2cmc merfolk than the 3cmc merfolk.

I also thoroughly enjoyed having my wakethrasher bigger than a tarmogoyf and/or making him unblockable with sovereign.

[Rekk]

Ok...I'm going to have to go against the popular choice for a minute here.

I LOVED the 3cmc merfolk in my deck. I haven't had much success with focusing on the 2cmc with coralhelm. I find that he is sometimes harder to kill...but he presents no combat tricks. When I used Kira, sovereign, and wake thrasher I could stick vial up to 3 and then ACTUALLY USE my rejeery. I figure I would rather cast the 2cmc merfolk than the 3cmc merfolk.

I also thoroughly enjoyed having my wakethrasher bigger than a tarmogoyf and/or making him unblockable with sovereign.

I could understand sovereign but wake trasher doesn't help against red decks which fucking kill us and Rejeery is still my favorite merfolk next to coral helm even if i have to hard cast him but hey just for old time sake (even though im fairly new to the deck) i may run 16 lords next tournament

[Bahamut056]

isn't the red match up bad regardless of what you use?