GFTT is a removal for your own Persecutors too...
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Why the hell would you not play Dark Confidant?
He is one of the best cards and a single-card machine in this deck! You drop him, your opponent handles him or pretty much looses.....
Looking at the Sideboard, what does that single Jailer do? Nothing? Don't tell me siding in a single card that you can't tutor will be a constant and relevant answer to anything.
Necroplasm is so incredibly slow and your opponent can outplay it so easily. If it goes up to 2, drop a one, if it goes to 3, drop a two. Necroplasm is so irrelevant against a good player, i wonder versus who or what you have "good test results".
Sorry dude, but there is so much wrong with this list, i don't even see the point of continuing to explain it.....
My advice is to read the first, let's say 20 pages of this thread.
Last edited by sporenfrosch1411; 01-21-2011 at 12:46 PM.
I am the brainwasher
dude, seriously?.. I don't want to bash you, but this looked kinda like an insult for the deck. Saying that you never missed Confidant already makes your post a joke, ask anyone what's the best CA creature in the game, yes it's indeed Confidant. So i can pretty much calmly say that you clearly don't know anything about this deck or how it works.
So please, think before posting and just because you have won some games on MWS it doesn't make your idea awesome.
And talking about changes in the deck, I wonder how Maze of Ith would be working for those who don't own Wastes. I don't own them, so I play Factories, but I'm thinking about the idea to run like two or three Mazes instead of 1-2 Factories. But the problem is as usual, it doesn't produce mana, it's bad early game, makes you mulligan with hand of 1 Swamp and Maze. Maybe 1-off?
Where do you have the" more controllish" parts? Do you mean the one more Thoughtseize? By the way TS isn`t a good choice for The Gate.Originally Posted by I am the brainwasher
Please do as Sporenfrosch1411 said: Read the first 20 pages of this thread.
Another interesting card is Moriok Replica. I wonder why nobody mentions it? Propably I'll put some of these for a test :D What d'ya guys think?
Well i guess nobody mentions it because Confidant just is better in a vacuum :)
Look at it like this: Would you e.g. handle a Replica? Or wouldn't you wait for him to sacrifice it and have drawn 2 cards for 5 mana and 2 life? I would consider even Sign in Blood or Phyrexian Arena more of an option
But don't get me wrong - Confidant is the perfect choice and i would never cut that one for any of the mentioned.
I was not prepared for that huge ammount of criticism.
I realy did not wanted to say or to point out that this is superior to the "classic" build or lists that others were working with. As I said, ("I am testing a individual Version of the Gate atm". "My version is not THAT straight forward".) I am working with a list.
If I liked what I am starting with (and yes, this is a start. Everybody starts at some point), this is no proof that this is definetly the way to go. I liked to test out some new cards and liked their effect on the games in my tests. Not always, but I liked them.
I played the classic list a lot online and I know that Confidant is a powerhouse. You might got that wrong, but its no noob here who wants proof his cute deck with a kind of "me-against-the-world" state of mind. I wanted to share some new thoughts and if this isnt working (or dislking directly without testing, which might be more appropiate here)) thats pretty fine.
I really dont want to repeat myself that much but I also said that I am not that experienced as other players but the advice to read the post 20 pages of the thread were already done as I wrote my last comment.
I think there are many different ways to pick up and deal with sentences and thoughts of other people and to me it appeals that this might have gone in some kind of "wrong" direction here.
I am always open to well based criticism and thats what I were looking for and found that at some places here, but not as I would have imgained it. But thats okay to me in the end.
Not that it is that necessary to justify my points of view that accurate, just wanted to make my point here!
Greetings
maybe it was too harsh a little bit, but you understand why it happened :) Necroplasm kills 1cc creatures on turn 4, and by then it's only a weak 2/2 chump blocker at best. So we are looking for CA, and what CA this card can actually offer to you? Let's say you have a Tombstalker in your opening. When you actually will be able to cast him? Casting for 2 with this deck is basicly impossible because most of the stuff is permanents. It was discussed earlier that Thoughtseize doesn't deal with anything more than a Duress, because you want your opponent to cast creatures. So all you did with your deck is that you took out Bobs for Necroplasm, cut some cards for Thoughtseize and you call this your own direction? A new direction is something like adding hexmagedepths combo, Smallpox engine, splashing other colours or overall adding some kind of combination/engine of other cards. Anyway, you obviously can ignore us and keep playing whatever works for you, so I wish you best luck with stuff that you play :]
Honestly, you should read the whole thread. Realize that some innovation is subpar; while it can be effective, it may also be less effective than alternatives. Furthermore, unless you're testing with a testing partner that is decent at playing (that is, not random people on MWS or what-have-you) than the testing done doesn't really prove a point.
My advice, not only for brainwasher but for people in general that attempt to play this deck / work with it, is to try out Hollywood's list first. Play it, play it again, then play it again. Take it as an unchangeable list. Use it exactly as he posted it in his starting thread. After having done that you can start changing it, not before you have even tried it out......
Go for the Throat vs Deathmark... why even continue having this discussion? The latter costs B and knocks out all major threats that your Gatekeeper of Malakir can't handle. The former costs 1B, is instant speed, and hits everything that the latter doesn't. And you know what? It's still exactly the same argument as Smother vs Deathmark (in which after a harrowing fight Deathmark wins).
Regardless of what you may think, if 95% of the time both spells get cast against the same target in the same situation then you may as well be using the one that costs less.
Guys, I just want your honest opinion...if you gonna cut between persecutors and bitterblossoms which would you choose? which is more important? and please state your reasons..thnx a lot
BTW, wheres HOLLYWOOD? XD
Why do you want to cut one of these? Do you want to board or replace them? Maybe you can explain a little more.
None. I just can't but to assume you lack budget, which i won't accept as an argument basis for card choices - yea, there you go with honesty...Guys, I just want your honest opinion...if you gonna cut between persecutors and bitterblossoms which would you choose? which is more important? and please state your reasons..thnx a lot
If that's not why you want to cut basic cards that define this archetype, you have to do some really intense explaining.
Btw:
Did first place at a small tournament on Saturday...nothing too fancy but hey, i got a scrubland :) I'm fine with that.
My list:
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Dark Confidant
3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Deathmark
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Innocent Blood
17 Swamp
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Disfigure
3 Dystopia
2 Ratchet Bomb
After the tournament and after the last tournament (about two weeks ago) i did some playtesting, here are some short results:
Not a single win versus TES
Easy wins versus Bant-Tempo
Not a single win versus Doomsday
Almost all games won versus UBg Tempo/Thresh
All games won versus Sneak Attack (but hey, if you can pull out a Sneak Attack and a Show and Tell with a single hymn...you just can't count that as a result :D )
Thought i'd just share some results / opinions with you.
The new Pithing Beetle may help you against TES. Stops LED and Petal at the least, and applies pressure at the same time. Btw, how's Disfigure in the SB working for you? I assume you bring it in against Merfolk+Goblins. Furthermore, what do you use Ratchet Bomb for?
For the simple reason that I want to incorporate more removal and nantuko shade which I already purchased...is it enough sir?
Trust me - get BB and Percy, and try running the basic list. There will be some hiccups, but as you pick up the deck, you'll appreciate more. Furthermore, isn't Shade really cheap since the reprint? Go use him in something like SuiBlack - but here, he's a mana sink when we don't need one. And you'll find the removal is plenty for the majority of decks out there.
Disfigure, as you assumed correct, is mainly versus Goblins and Merfolk. The instant speed and cc1 is really nice against Lackey and Piledriver, not to mention that -2 kills every single Goblin.
Versus Merfolk it's kind of a different thing. Versus Merfolk you have to use it fast, to be honest i'd use it on the first lord you see, because later on it will become pretty useless, but since merfolk does not swarm as good as goblins do, your sacrifice effects can still get you the game (versus goblins they just don't do that good, because most likely they will sac a token or a matron or something like that)
Ratchet Bomb.... well it is kind of an attempt to get an answer to Counterbalance, Aether Vial, (Ensnaring Bridge - trust me, you DON'T want to see a bridge with TheGate) and basically every threatening non-creature-permanent. It also is nice versus Chalice of the Void, but that i guess you won't be seeing too often at the moment. I think it's kind of a meta choice.... a very loose one.
What bothers me most at the moment is the combo matchup.
TES is such a consistent deck, even with Turn1 Duress, Turn2 Hymn i could not manage to win. Pretty much the same applies for Doomsday, against which you at least can board in Pithing Needles and put them on Sensei's Divining Top.
What's your plan versus those decks? Do you just go with the fact that it's a bad matchup or do you have any good plans?
The guy is asking for a opinion, he's not telling you to do the same. There's no need to be rude and say he shouldn't do that, when he will end up doing so anyways.
@Lichking616
I'd recommed you to run the basic list, as most here will do, if you can. But if you can't, then switch Persecutor for Shade. BB stalls rushs against you and create endless Jitte-carriers, and Shade is a beater, as Persecutor is. Won't be the same, but will probably have the same inherited good matchs. Also, switching Persecutor opens possibilities for other cards, since you won't have to worry about dealing with your own guy.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
I dont really see rudeness in stating that i dont accept a lack of budget as a basis for card choices and asking for an explanation why you would cut deck defining cards, do you? If so, then i am sorry.
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