That makes sense. You can't give them a 4th turn, which should be well within the capabilities of the deck, and after turn 2 on the play or turn 1 on the draw Ad Nauseum starts to look pretty unattractive. I'll try this, thanks.Originally Posted by LostButSeeking
Yeah that makes sense I suppose. Red rituals only need a single Mox to get started anyways since you never really need RR. I suppose it's pretty situational.
Ok here's a couple answers :
How much mana, and wich kind should you float when goiing Adn :
This is an incredebly situational question, rule of thumb, if you can float 2 mana, you try to go RB, if you can only float 1 there are many thing to consider :
-I wont cover all the ''must you go off now'' topics, too long, but as akward as it sound, the later you go off, the better are your chances since you have more ressources, it all depend on your opponent deck and the gamestate.
-What have you played so far?, let's use an extreme exemple : you used 3 Dark Ritual before goiing off, then you will definitly want to have a R mana floating, most of the remaining ritual are red
-Did you do your land drop? If not, what color to float is less important, you will be able to compensate when you make your land drop
-After Adn, you have more dead black cards than red cards (duress for exemple), so you have more irrelevent black card to pitch to chrome mox than red ones
-remember, if you have a chrome mox in hand and nothing to imprint it on, you can ADN in response to the imprit trigger, meaning you will be able to imprint one of the cards you adn for! (seem's like a lot of people dont know this yet)
-Goiing ADN during you opponent end turn allows you to use your lands during your turn
That's all that come to mind right now, hope it help, there no magical solution, you have to do what's best in the current situation, and you learn that from experience I guess, remember this, anytime, bofore making a decision with TES, stop for a second and THINK!
Now, on ponder vs preordain, it's simple, ponder is better at finding you THE card you need to win. Preordain is better when you have a bad hand, and when you have a bad hand, you should have mulliganed, end of story!, but seriouly I took note of when I had a ponder and made some analysis of what would have happened with a preordain, and most of the times where preordain would have been better where situation where I should have mulled my hand or that I made some playmistake.
Peace
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Both the rituals only need a single Mox to get started.
About the Ponder over Preordain thing, Ponder is a LOT better. You have to use Ponder as a dig card for a specific type of card, for example, lets say you find yourself needing a fast mana source, or protection, or a land, or a tutor, Ponder is perfect as it can usually find it, or give you a much better chance to find it. Also it is another shuffle effect for Brainstorm, can set up a draw step Ad Nauseam much easier, among other things. Personally I love Ponder, and there are times that I want it over Brainstorm (double Brainstorm without a fetch is really really lame in comparison to the same situation but with Brainstorm and Ponder).
The mana combination after you Ad Nauseam doesn't really matter, although I always go for UB since... I don't know, doesn't really matter, if you don't flip a Chrome Mox or Lotus Petal, you probably aren't winning (although having U is really good because Brainstorm after Ad Nauseam is Recall).
Every time this is a play, you can just hold the Chrome Mox. Literally no reason to try and be fancy. Also, learn to spell and use coherent sentences, it will make ou come off as much more of an adult, I promise.
It's relevant when you have a Diamond and they have taxing counters. It's happened to me twice.Every time this is a play, you can just hold the Chrome Mox.
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
Explain. I still don't understand why you would leave Diamond on the stack. If they Daze Ad Nauseam and you have a Diamond on the stack, and no mama floating, your Ad Nauseam is not resolving.
You have LED in play and you play Chrome Mox. With imprint on the stack, you play AdN. They Spell Pierce and Daze AdN, and you pay with LED mana. After AdN has resolved you get to imprint something on Mox. If you had kept Mox in hand, it would just have been discarded and you would have 1 less mana.
Nice. I could totaly see this being relevant at some point. It's a corner case, but I think of all archetypes combo is the one where corner cases make the biggest difference in your record at the end of the day.
OOOO. That I have done. I was thinking he was talking about Mox Diamond.... Awkward...
Okay, this is why I love source. I've never once considered this, and I've comboed off through Ad Nauseum LOTS of times. Thanks for the help.
As to floating mana. If possible (and I have no scientific reasoning backing this up) I go for UB, if possible. I ALWAYS draw into brainstorms or ponders and DON'T always draw into rituals of any kind. After ad nauseum, turning a brainstorm and two lands into the next three cards can turn a failed ad nauseum into a successful one very occasionally. As for the black, there are more black symbols in the deck--think Tendrils and IGG here--than red symbols.
Rishadan Port is like scuba gear.
--FoulQ
I haven't been playing TES for too long and I've read through the primer and most of this thread. I have a 75 card mirror of Bryant's list and I am not exactly sure what to board in and out in certain matchups. Help anyone, because the primer's board options are old and no longer is current.
What matchups do you need help with?
Countertop (with explosives/firespout)
-1 Infernal tutor
-1 Chrome mox
-1 ponder
-1 Empty the Warrens
-1 Silence
+3 Pyroblast
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Wipe Away
Merfolk
-1 infernal tutor
-1 ponder
-1 mox
-1 silence
+2 Pyroblast
+2 Echoing Truth
Aggro Decks (Zoo, Goblins, Death and Taxes variants)
-1 Infernal Tutor
-1 Chrome Mox
+2 Echoing Truth
This is what I tend to do.....
For a more accurate take on sideboarding, look at Bryant's GP Columbus Report on the first page, it helps out a lot
Just to be sure that I'm not missing something obvious here, but how exactly would you set up a draw step Ad Nauseam within the current rulings?
for reference:
504. Draw Step
504.1. First, the active player draws a card. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack.
106.4. When an effect produces mana, that mana goes into a player's mana pool. From there, it can be used to pay costs immediately, or it can stay in the player's mana pool. Each player's mana pool empties at the end of each step and phase.
I used Brainstorm for this purpose. Granted, it doesn't offer anything beyond me feeling good that I can still cast spells in my draw step and that the DCI can't take that away from me.
This is pretty wrong. I wouldn't board out Chrome Mox vs decks with Wasteland. Why are you boarding in Echoing Truth vs Fish? They have nothing you want to bounce. I guess you can bounce a Lord or something, or you can just keep in the Infernal Tutor + Ponder so that you're more likely to go off before the Lord is an issue. Bryant's list in the OP has 4 Pyroblasts, but you're saying to only board in 3 vs Countertop. Pyroblast is the best protection spell in your deck vs. Counterbalance, since it counters the namesake card. Duress can whiff if they're on the play and Brainstorm in response, but Pyroblast can always counter it on the way down.
I'm sorry I am wrong, I was just trying to help the guy out. Thank you for pointing out some of the flaws in my boarding strategy.
Against countertop, do you advocate taking out duresses for pyroblast?
Not if you can help it. Duress is really important when trying to take their CB before they play it. Against Countertop, I would do:
-2 Ponder
-1 Chrome Mox
+3 Pyroblasts
They won't be attacking your manabase, so you can afford to lose a mana source in the matchup.
this is what I would do for the following decks with this sb:
1 Tendrils
1 ETW
1 D.returns
1 IGG
1 Shattering spree
1 cumshot
1 deathmark
1 thoughtseize
1 wipe away
1 krosan grip
2 echoing truth
3 pyroblast
vs zoo:
-1 mox
-1 brainstorm/ponder
-1 duress
+1 thoughtseize
+2 echoing truth
this is if I anticipate that he has mindbreak trap and cannonist post board
vs WGB Rock
-1 infernal tutor
-1 ETW
-1 silence/ponder
+ 2 echoing truth
+ 1 thoughtseize
the extra disruption would help since builds like these would include vindicates. the boarded out infernal tutor would reduce the efficiency of extirpate(most players would target tutors) and ETW is useless against them because they have tons for mass removal(plague, EE, deeds)
vs merfolk
-1 ponder
-1 brainstorm
-1 infernal tutor
+3 pyroblast
hope this helps and makes sense
This makes sense. Can we get Bryant to chime in here though? I'm assuming he designed the board with the idea of bringing in 4 pyroblasts and the Krosan Grip (otherwise why are they there?), and since I'm starting off learning the deck with his list, I'd like his insight on it too.
I was considering running this deck this weekend and a question arose: is ad nauseam such relevant? Running 1 copy and with no mystical tutor isn't there the risk of hit it whan our damage count is too high??
If you can't go ad naus since you took too much damage, you probably could have just gone for IGG, or you waited too long to pull the trigger. 1 Ad naus is crucial, but not always what you do. You run this deck over AnT because it doesn't rely on just one engine.
If you were considering not running one of the better draw functions in the format, I wouldn't consider running this deck. At least until you understand how it works a little more
Last edited by Tammit67; 02-20-2011 at 11:03 AM.
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